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Should I lay something under the mulch?

17 years ago

I'm in the process of building a raised bed veggie garden out in the front yard, and I need to smother some "grass" (read: mostly weeds, and mostly brown, but super tuft-y). I was thinking I would just lay down some cardboard on top of it, wet it down, and then throw down some sort of mulch, possibly gorilla hair-type stuff, to pretty up the paths, but now I'm wondering if I need to put something between the cardboard and the mulch.

If I just do it the way I'm envisioning, I see an issue with the mulch being kicked around or moved around as it's walked on, and exposing ugly cardboard underneath. Plus, cardboard doesn't really give the mulch any texture to "grab onto" to hold it in place. Is there something I should be putting on top of the cardboard, and underneath the mulch to keep things from being too shuffled around? Also, any recommendations for a nice, natural, smallish mulch besides gorilla hair or pea gravel? Maybe just small woodchips? I hate the feeling of walking on larger pieces of bark (like tanbark), but I'm not even sure that this would be the proper application for gorilla hair. I don't know much about mulching in general, actually.

Comments (14)

  • 17 years ago

    My first garden was though out during the summer months of 2008 where I took an old tent and set it up to remove any grasses weeds ect .... I had to move the tent back and forth to the garden size I wanted in the fall a neighbor droped by to till up the now missing evrything area I then sufficated the area with pine needles and ashes from the fire palce and trashed the old tent he droped by again in the spring and tilled it up again I covered the area with a land scape carpet while planting and used a finely cut ( use of a mower ) oak elm and other old fall leaves I left piled up out back for the mulch after the 2009 harvest was done I removed all the used plants and mulch and bring it to the compost heap(s) I thus sence discarded the land scape carpet to the trash. and Ill repeat the tilling again in fall and recovering with pine needles and ash and will habbit these steps evry growing season
    I just dont see any sence on spending money on a mulch from any sorce as for the most part it lends it's self to being in the way and removed at my cost during fertilizing and some light weeding duties that are still performed

    Your on the right start with the cardbord though for weed control sorry it's so slippery I am very uncertain to the gorrila hair idea I just stick to the dried and lawn mowed choped leaves very natural and YES very free

    Tip:
    Ever seen weeds growing under a pine tree ????

  • 17 years ago

    Well, I want the mulch to cover up the cardboard, and the cardboard to cover up the lawn. ;) I don't have anything free around here to mulch with, since I don't have enough trees to drop enough leaves, and I'm not sure I'd want to be looking at a giant pile of leaves all over my front yard anyway, lol. Not to say that it's not attractive, but I'd prefer something a little more finished looking, which is why I was asking about gorilla hair vs. wood chips vs. any other ideas.

    I don't plan on growing anything where the cardboard and mulch will exist, and I don't have access to a tiller/don't want to hire someone to till because I don't really need the soil improved or the lawn gone for any other reason but that it's ugly and wasteful (because my "lawn" is no longer a lawn, but rather weeds and brown grass). I know the mulch will cost money, but it's something I'm prepared to pay, provided I feel I'm buying the proper product, especially because I've recently found a great, inexpensive landscape supply company.

    Still don't know if I'm supposed to put something on top of the cardboard or not though, and I'm not sure about whether or not it will be too slippery, since, as I mentioned, this is all just in the beginning stages.

  • 17 years ago

    No. The cardboard is a good enough barrier. How deep will the mulch be? At least 4", I hope.

  • 17 years ago

    This is just my opinion but I think if you put down cardboard and make sure there are no gaps, then add a good layer of wood chips, and water well, it will not be slippery. Wood chips will take awhile to decompose so should be good awhile. You can add more when they start to decomp.

    I'm suggesting this as I have no idea what gorilla hair is.

  • 17 years ago

    Here's a picture of gorilla hair in a yard, but it's not really close enough for you to see the very, very fine nature of it:

    gorilla hair mulch

    So, 4" of mulch is how deep I should go? That's pretty high. I guess I can do that, and then thin it out where I just put up my new landscape edging (which doesn't sit up 4" to be able to hold all that mulch, lol).

  • 17 years ago

    I get the impression you don't ever want to grow anything in the majority of soil under your lawn, guessing it's a small area similar to that picture with gorilla hair. If that's not true ignore the rest of this =)

    The town I work in has many many small front lawns mulched with rocks. The rocks are usually put around a small statue or water fountain type thing, some even do put shrubs in. What I notice is that after a few years pass these tend to look nicer than the neighbors' that used landscape fabric covered with wood mulch. The rocks don't disappear leaving the mesh exposed and ripped.

    Part of why it works might be that it's normal in that town, a personality developed being a superfund site. Also I have no idea how deep the rocks are nor what was put down under them.

  • 17 years ago

    Lol, anubis, yes, I have absolutely no plans to grow anything in that dirt, ever. Although, I have to admit, I looked into whether or not I could lasagna the entire thing and maybe turn it into usable soil in a couple years. It's still a nice thought, but I can't raise the height of my entire front lawn by as many inches as turning the whole thing into a lasagna bed would require.

    I thought about rocks, but then flashed back to my childhood front yard, which was landscaped beautifully for a long time, and had a pea gravel walkway. Once my parents started to slack on the maintenance of the yard, that pea gravel got everywhere! It crept into parts of the yard it totally didn't belong, and I can't imagine what a pain it'll be getting rid of it, if my dad ever decides he wants to. It's small enough that it can make it through some screening, and yet large and non-porous enough to make soil kind of inhospitable to grow in.

    I do worry about what the wood mulch will look like after some time has passed though. I love the look of fresh wood chips, but after being exposed to the elements, it will inevitably turn grey and weathered looking. That's why I was thinking gorilla hair, but I don't know how long that retains its color either.

    Decisions, decisions!

  • 17 years ago

    Ok, here's another related question:

    If I throw down a layer of composted steer manure, then lay out the cardboard, then lay out the wood mulch, is there likely going to be any improvement to my very compacted, very hard, dry clay soil by the time it's time to replace everything? Or will it feed the grass that's supposed to be on its way to death's door, and basically do nothing?

  • 17 years ago

    Cardboard is becoming very good for the soil. Wet your soil throughly and then lay the cardboard, you can add mulch, newspapers (black and white) leaves, chicken fert etc etc and then cover it with wood chips. You will be inviting worms and the other micro organisms into your soil and you may have something great in a couple of years.

    Penny

  • 17 years ago

    While newspaper, or cardboard, may well create an environment that earthworms, and other members of the Soil Food Web, like the newspaper or cardboard is not what really draws them in. There really is nothing for any earthworm, or other member of the Soil Food Web, to eat in any paper other than carbon.

  • 17 years ago

    "If I throw down a layer of composted steer manure, then lay out the cardboard, then lay out the wood mulch, is there likely going to be any improvement to my very compacted, very hard, dry clay soil by the time it's time to replace everything? Or will it feed the grass that's supposed to be on its way to death's door, and basically do nothing?"

    It would feed the grass, were you not killing the grass with your application of a light-impenetrable mulch (your cardboard).

    Worms are definitely attracted to a newspaper mulch. They appear to love the darkness, dampness, and coolness. My former husband, a conventional gardener, eventually adopted paper mulch methods when he saw the huge numbers of worms residing under my newspaper. He threw an annual fishing derby for neighborhood kids every Oct. and the hundreds of worms that he effortlessly gathered for the event came from my half of the garden.

  • 17 years ago

    So it won't be feeding the grass under the cardboard, since the grass will be smothered, but is it likely going to improve the soil underneath any appreciable amount? Would it be a waste of time to spread a couple inches prior to laying down the cardboard?

  • 17 years ago

    If you cover any plant with something that deprives that plant of sunlight, that plant will die. All plants need that access to sunlight so the leaves can take it in and manufacture nutrients that get the roots growing to pick up some soil nutrients that are combined with those the leaves make, and if you cut off that access to sunlight the leaves will no longer manufacture the nutrients and the plant will die. Some very invasive plant roots will not be killed off, however, and can grow (using nutrients stored in the roots) until they find some way to get more green growth going up toward the sun.
    If you are going to put down a mulch of less that 4 to 6 inches you will need some way to keep the plants you are covering from getting that sunlight and newspaper or cardboard is one good way to do that. But if your mulch is 6 or more inches (like a Lasagna bed) there is no real need to put either newspaper or cardboard down first.

  • 17 years ago

    "If I throw down a layer of composted steer manure, then lay out the cardboard, then lay out the wood mulch, is there likely going to be any improvement to my very compacted, very hard, dry clay soil by the time it's time to replace everything? Or will it feed the grass that's supposed to be on its way to death's door, and basically do nothing?"

    In time I believe the soil will improve (certainly more and faster than if you did nothing) but I'd advise watering thoroughly before, during, and after as well as using a very well overlapped layer of cardboard. And put that cardboard under the edge of the raised bed as well if possible. Weeds will grow for a time under anything in search of light. You might also use stepping stones on top of everything as continued compaction will be a problem so if you limit where you walk it *may* help.

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