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pommes_gw

options for fixing heavy soil

17 years ago

Hi all. I'm preparing some vegetalbe and flower beds for next spring. The ground is incredibly heavy, damp and like clay. When I dig it up it sticks to its original form on my spade and then makes clay clumps that dry on the surface and turn into hard as stone; no matter how much I try to rake the surface. Yet it's full of rain worms (good sign).

I've mixed in organic compost and organic humis like earth to try to loosen it up but with only little results.

Neighbors are saying you can't grow much in the area because it's forest area (in Austria). But, my property gets plenty of day sunshine.

Any help? Can I prove my neighbors wrong?

Comments (14)

  • 17 years ago

    Pommes -
    All you have to do is make a really thick layer of organic matter (shredded leaves, stable litter, etc.) on the area and let the worms do the tilling for you.

    Read the link.

    Here is a link that might be useful: No-work gardening

  • 17 years ago

    That may not be true. It depends on how heavy the clay actually is, and on what the drainage situation is.

    If the native soil surrounding the beds is heavy clay, and you mechanically amend the beds or layer organic material atop the soil so soil organisms do it for you, you will be creating a bathtub effect, unless there is adequate drainage. Water must either be able to percolate through the soil under the beds at a rate that precludes the possibility or root rot or impaired root function/metabolism, or you must be able to direct water away by employing gravity - a ditch or tile - French drain, or a sump system.

    An exaggerated example of this is to imagine digging a hole in heavy clay, and then filling it with anything more porous - use container media as an example. When it rains or you irrigate, the hole you dug fills with water that either falls directly into the hole or water that is moving laterally through the clay. This water will not drain until it percolates through the soil, it evaporates, or it is used by nearby plants. You must somehow avoid this situation.

    Al

  • 17 years ago

    Well, I'm not sure how heavy the soil really is compared to others, but prior to me making flower beds it was an area grown over with all kinds of shrubs, flower, plants and grass(It's on a property that we bought that we eventually want to build a house on). Really like a jungle so things grow there fine.
    Also, as I mentioned, the ground seems full of large earth worms. Isn't that a sign that something is good in the soil?
    Maybe it is true that I can't grow the summer flowers that I want. For example, I know that Echinecea (which I like) can't stand damp, heavy soils.
    Would working in a little quartz sand help, or simply let kompost and nature take care of it?

  • 17 years ago

    The point I attempted to make is that amending a small area in a sea of clay so that it has the 'potential' to drain better is not clear indication that it WILL drain better, or even drain at all, if the clay is very heavy. Adding organic matter or any other matter with the intent that it should improve drainage to a small volume of soil surrounded by clay cannot improve drainage unless the water has somewhere to drain TO. That must happen through percolation through the underlying and/or surrounding soil. If that soil is too dense to allow water to move through it quickly enough to prevent root issues, then there must be a way to drain water away by one of the methods I mentioned above; or we must add the caveat that you will have to be satisfied with the fruits of growing in a soil that remains very saturated at times.

    You can answer the question for yourself by observing puddles in low spots. If they persist after a rain for more than a few hours, you're likely to have difficulty with saturation levels at times unless you can engineer a way to channel water away from the growing area via a ditch, tile, natural gradient, other.

    Al

  • 17 years ago

    My soil is also heavy clay. Is there a lake or stream nearby? Hire someone to check the drainage of your soil. You'll have to do that before you build a house, anyway.

    Don't add sand to clay soil. Add organic matter. Lots and lots of it! Don't try to work clay soil when it is that wet--it turns it into concrete. Wait until the soil is almost dry, then dig and work it. Or, like he suggested above, put 6 inches of compost on top and let the worms work it in.

    You could build raised beds. Or, you could start a pottery studio.

    Rain2Fall

  • 17 years ago

    Rain2Fall. There is a stream but a good 1/4 mile away. Like I mentioned, my property is on a formerly heavily forrested hillside. The forest surroundings is the reason given why people say the soil is soo heavy here and, you're right. I originally had to till the ground because it was completely a jungle- like garden house property (left unkept for 15 yrs.) with plants just growing on top of each other.
    After I had tilled a bit, the surface clods turned into cement balls.
    It wouldn't be logical for me to invest in a drainage system because we will be builing on the property in 3-4 years anyways. I will definetly try with mucho mulch and let nature have its way.
    Maybe I should just try to limit my vegetable and flowers in these least desirable conditions.

  • 17 years ago

    I think there is a communication problem ..... if the property is on a hillside - all you need to do is dig a ditch between your growing areas. The water in the heavy soil will flow laterally into the ditch & be carried away downhill ..... end of story, end of problem. You can then amend with as much organic material in whatever manner you please w/o concern for building a bathtub.

    BTW - the forest had/has nothing to do with how heavy the soil is. Actually, how heavy the soil is has considerably more influence on how the forest is than the forest has on how heavy the soil is.

    Al

  • 17 years ago

    It sounds to me like you have Utopian soil-too wet is preferable to too dry. I bought this place with the typical red clay of the area. Over the years, I haven't done much but spread Other Peoples Leaves and other so-called wastes over my garden spaces. Now, they are never too wet or dry for more than a day and I can dig a planting hole 12" deep with just my fingertips. I don't till or excavate, just add on top. Good soil can't be created over night.

  • 17 years ago

    With just your fingertips!

    I'm jealous.

    Rain2Fall

  • 17 years ago

    I know that your clay soil in Austria could be very different from the clay soil here in western Canada. I'll tell you, however, what we did and the results in case it helps. My DH and I decided to increase our house yard on our large acreage so DH tilled some areas for new perennial beds. The first tilling he just got thru the top few inches of clay soil that was previously mostly coniferous forest land. He then spread some barn cleanings that consisted of old sawdust, sheep manure, and old hay which was very dry and not composted. He tilled this in and I planted young perennials. The plants have done very well and when I weed I can easily get all of the roots of most of the dandelions even when I've ignored them for weeks. I was amazed at how loose the soil is. The worms have moved in and I've only fertilized with a bit of alfalfa tea. I don't think this would be great soil for veggies that are heavy feeders but with more compost I'm sure it will become good soil for any purpose.

    Clay soil has many advantages and I'm quite satisfied with it as there are many worse soils one could have.

  • 17 years ago

    Just noticed you are in zone 6. You might think about planting a cover crop this fall which will establish over winter and you can till it in the spring. When we lived in Germany (Schwarzwald) there were lots of very productive gardens. I'm amazed your neighbors are so negative about gardening.

  • 17 years ago

    THanks for all the tips folks.
    I was also thinking that the property has lots of potential because it was soo overgrown with plants when we bought it. It was used specifically as a garden house property 15 years ago (I forgot to mention that there is a small garden house on the top of the property.)
    It also receives at least 7-8 hrs of sun on many parts.

    A cover crop in the winter would be interesting although I wonder if I'm a little novice still to put that together before when?...November or so I imagine.

    In any case I'm going to try piling leaves all over the property and start feeding the ground.

    By the jungle appearance of the property when we purchased it, I think there's some possibilities with a little investment.

  • 17 years ago

    I love that line "all you have to do". People have had a problem trying to fix soil and somebody comes out with that line.

    Get a rototiller, a big one, that can churn the soil up deep. Into the mix put about 30% organic material -- and then buy a bag or two of "GYPSUM" and add that as directed.
    Gypsum will correct high pH condition, counteracts acid soil and raises low pH conditions.'
    Restores balanced soil conditions following prolonged use of nitrogen fertilizers
    It improves soil structure and tilth, creates friable soil and better topsoil. Breaks up soil that has been allowed to compact, improves moisture drainage and yet improves the soil's ability to hold onto moisture.
    Enhances friendly bacterial action and hinders plant diseases related to poor soil.

    When in doubt...do your own research and read about gypsum.

    Orgamoc matter, add lots of peat moss, newspaper, cardboard, straw, corn husks....and everything and anything else you can lay your hands on.
    Compost should only make up no more than 35% of your soil by volume--otherwise it will go back to day one.

  • 17 years ago

    I'm pretty sure the OP can grow in the clay soil as-is, but I think they eventually want loamy soil.

    It is my understanding that humic and fulvic acids are what changes the texture of soil. I have heavy clay soil where I live and I've tried a variety of things with a variety of results.

    I have access to humic/fulvic acid in the form of 50 pound bags of a black, granular material. Dumping large amounts of this relatively cheap material will alter the soil structure relatively quickly. I've also seen how heavy applications of coffee grounds will denature clay and make it much more friable.

    And, of course, organic material does this but it will take years.

    I'll attach a link to the humic/fulvic acid product so you can search for something similar in your area.

    If the link ever breaks, search for Zamzows Huma Green.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Humic/fulvic acid produce