Christin, now you've gone and done it, I'll have to go have a look at our local HD LOL.
I did pick up Agastache 'Blue Boa' when doing my annual august perennial prowl at a favorite nursery, it really caught my eye covered with honey bees, these have been noticeably absent around here the last few years, just the odd one. Lots of other bees tho.

Annette

-Annette, I will be interested to hear if your HD is carrying nice items as well, or if it seems to be mine in particular.

I'm already starting to wonder if I should have picked up a BB! There is a spot in the back AND front it would look good. LOL.
CMK

I wonder if it isn't just certain HD's....I was in mine yesterday for some spackle, caulk and walked through the garden section. Dismal, although they did have the Northern Lights. Most everything was dry, untended.

I was trying to condense errands and needed a large bag of potting soil, couldn't find a quality at HD to tempt me. Almost every pallet had a broken bag so I was able to do a handful squeeze and sniff test, but passed them up and made a second stop where I found Gardner and Bloome in stock.

There was quite a large supply of young common boxwood that seemed well rooted if someone were doing a border, knot garden or something, $6.98 ea. I look but rarely buy plants at box stores, I would rather support nurseries....and do my share of that.

I got a gorgeous Meyer lemon at HD today, only $22.92. I'm thrilled ! A huge blue resin pot is on the way from Amazon for its permanent home.

Haven't been to HD or Lowe's since I lost my job a few years ago but couldn't resist variegated hakone grass earlier this year at a local nursery, along with a vivid purple astilbe at a new nursery about 8 miles from me along with five (count 'em: 5) strawberry pink 'Galaxy' heucheras (sorry--Google didn't have an image).

To be fair, I picked up quite a few peonies at HD about 8 years ago and they're healthy plants that produce multiple blooms every year.

i should get this story verified since it's been quite a few yrs now since a very knowledgeable young nurseryman named Sean (Conway?) closed his small R.I. business and purportedly went to be the National Buyer for HD (or Lowes; not sure.)
I think the knowledge is def there for whoever their buyers are. We bought a 15 gal boxed Albizia Chocolate to try ( a second time; now will be in a smart location instead of a stupid one) at HD last month for $70. Since it's survival is quite iffy, we feel so lucky to have come upon it, because we WERE going to take the same chance with a Broken Arrow one for 3x more! We still get 90% of our plants from small growers, incl Broken Arrow.

Here is a link that might be useful: cotton-arbo retum website; free; open daily

Not around here. A lot of junk and stuff that is not winter hardy.

Find anything interesting at the box stores this year?

This past early summer I picked up some PW annuals. But I have never seen any perennials of any consequence at HD or Lowes. It seems to me they stock the very basics ie coneflower, Rozanne Geranium, Rudbeckia Goldsturm etc.

once a plant is treated, it goes on to be lethal to bees throughout its lifespan, offering up pollen and nectar that contains harmful levels of the pesticide.

AMAZING ... it becomes capable creating a never-ending supply of it from .... what? By what mechanism?

Can you point to the actual research that shows that a mature plant will have any quantity of a topical insecticide that was used on it as a seedling?

Or at least the tinfoil hattery you saw the claim in?

And note that your link is to an article that begins with this: "A possible link between neonicotinoids and honey bee die-offs has led to controversy across the United States and Europe."

There's a HUGE problem with that "possible link" that has to be explained away before I'll even begin to worry:

Europe banned neonics several years ago and STILL has a problem with CCD.
Australia uses neonics and has had NO CCD yet.

So, it's apparently something else ... like maybe something that's in other countries and not Australia ... like maybe whatever is in this picture.

{{gwi:263979}}

Goodness gracious Lazygardens, OK already.

I said I am still learning about the topic. I said it's controversial. I posted a link that looks credible. No need to jump down my throat about it.

And to answer your question in your first response I did post a link to where the info came from, which I read carefully so as not to pass along bad information. Your calling that 'tinfoil hattery' seems inflammatory. Maybe read what I posted before jumping straight to potentially insulting language?

Karin I heard about this too... there was a petition on change.org asking them to stop using sprays in their garden center.

I don't know much about it myself but I have decided to shop at family owned places just to be safe... it's not worth the risk for me. And then I can support local shops instead so it's a win win.

Here is a link that might be useful: Petition Link

I do not live in an extra small town, yet we only have one nursery. What I have noticed is that HD has been stocking more low water plants. I guess I should have mentioned I live in California. The nursery has done nothing different since the drought. They seem to cater to landscapers. In fact, they no longer sell annuals. I would like to shop at the nursery as I live quite close to it but they never have plants I need or want.

Thanks 'thegardenat902,' the research summary from your link was helpful and had some good references that I can use for more follow up.

Emmarene, too bad your local nursery is tone deaf to what a regular customer might want. That's supposed to be the whole point in dealing with an independent business. Oh well, at least your local HD is getting the message with drought tolerant plants.

Not to mention that HD thinks they may have been hacked--since Spring. It's been in the news the last few days seems like a good reason to cut up some of my plastic.

Big box stores and that includes HD buy their plants from many wholesale growers. Their plants are not better or worse than the average retail nursery. Generally speaking the plants after arriving at the retail location are not as well cared for in the big box stores as in the average retail nursery, so it behooves the buyer to be selective with his purchases. Al

karin - I'm happy you posted what you did. Actually, when this thread started I was going to post something similar, but never got around to it.

It still is a very controversial subject, but earlier this year it made the local news around here. A couple of our largest, local nurseries (not big box stores) were interviewed about the subject and they said they've been debating the issue in-house for some time and decided to go ahead with banning neonicotinoids as much as possible with the plants they sell and grow.

In doing a bit of Googling I did find the follow article which might have some more weight behind it because of where it's coming from. Take a look if you like.

I'm not a big HD shopper when it comes to plants, so this isn't a terribly big issue for me. Every time I'm in that store and see how cheaply they can sell their plants, I wonder "how can they do this?" In a way I'm kind of afraid of what the answer might be because I don't think the answer will be one I like.

Kevin

Here is a link that might be useful: Bees

Kevin, that is a nice article and is just the type of source that I usually try to find. Thank you!

So far I've read through it all quickly and it seems level-headed with some handy, specific recommendations, such as plants in flats are OK, and perennials and shrubs maybe not, but there are things you can do (run water through the pot for 10 minutes; snip off flowers the first year). So thanks for sharing this, much appreciated!

This evening I was lounging on the back deck and a honeybee flew right over and landed on me and hung out for awhile. That was a nice little moment!

Thanks for the discussion above. I'm a Florida forum GWer. I plant for flowers and butterflies - no veggies or herbs - and apply no pesticides. Yesterday I bought 5 mini pots of blooming pink cosmos at Home Depot, $1.09 ea per pot of 2 or 3. This sunny noon time I watched a lovely large orange butterfly visit the flowers. Joy! Then, I planted the five and watered them in.

Only then did I go to the computer and check out the extra plastic tag inserted in each pot.

At 10 p.m. I went back and dug each up and repotted it to return to HD. I had put off reading the plastic tag in each pot that bore the note: "This plant is protected from problematic aphids, white flies, beetles, mealy bugs and other unwanted pests by Neonicotinoids."

It listed an HD website to check this out: it has no info other than names of dozens of pesticide products that could have been used - nothing about which product or the concentration. I went from joy about the butterfly and pretty garden to anger that I had watched a butterfly probably contaminate itself and harm itself and the environment.

Yes, HD & Lowes have great plant offerings here in Florida. I bought hundreds of plants there, mostly very small, in the past 14 years. Never did a plant have a pesticide tag. I had been warned on GardenWeb by butterfly caterpillar nurturers to avoid big box nurseries because their plants could involve pesticides. Now I'm a believer.

Is the Neonicotinoid tag just telling the truth about what I have been buying all along? If so, why? Have they been pressured to reveal it? Are they testing customer opinion? Are only their so-labeled plants grown with systemic pesticides? I want answers from both stores, and will pursue this with them. Has anyone reading this approached them? Any advice for me?

irma_stpete_home - I'm so sorry you had to experience that. It is heartbreaking when your goal is to provide an environment for the pollinators and butterflies and something like this happens.

I had purchased several salvias and rudbekias from Home Depot and then found out about this via change.org and went out into the garden and ripped them out and threw them away. I should have gone back to the store and demanded answers but I was distraught and didn't think to do so. What did Home Depot say when you returned them?

I believe the tag was probably added due to the attention it's gotten, when I purchased my plants from them two summers ago they did not have the tag in with them.

I wish you luck in getting answers from both of them, please keep us updated on what happens. I do not shop at Home Depot anymore, not even for home repair stuff. It's just left a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully they will see a decrease in sales as people become aware of their use of neonics. Seems like most gardeners have a soft spot for pollinators and less and less people are using them in their gardens.

Michaela

lazy gardener if you google imidacloprid you might find some information that could make even you thoughtful. assuming that environmental information comes from tinfoil hatters makes me wonder about your headgear.:-)

Thank you for understanding. In defense of Lazy Gardener: whom to believe? Whose opinions, whose business practices, whose media manipulations, whose politics? Who places ethics above the survival of their business/job/elected position?

I'm beginning to see why the movements for organic, green, back to the earth, etc., have been embraced by so many. The frustration of not being able to trust. Of having to consider and even research, the options in the marketplace for even a $1.09 plant. (And then there's the undisputed history of international dumping into other countries of poisons deemed unfit for ones own body/family/community.)

I looked for the pesticide tags at HD today when I returned the cosmos. Only tagged were plants on the cheapest table - new little bedding annuals: $1.09 cosmos, salvia, snapdragon, etc. The $1.97 plants did not have the tags. Some 5 gal roses did. And, a couple of pots had tags that were perhaps "found" tags stuck in at random (which to trust?).

I think making noise is the way to go. As I expected, the returns cashier politely had no reply to my explanation for the return.

I would like the option to buy pesticide-free flowering plants at HD and Lowes - and with certainty that they are so. I need to tell them that.

I asked two plant people at my local HD and got *deer in the headlights* regarding basic info on neonics. Anyone know how these pesticides are applied? One employee told me it was probably in the soil and that I shouldn't worry...I showed him the tag and he hadn't noticed/read it before despite having unloaded hundreds of plants from the freight truck.

Any new updates from anywhere?

Thanks.

Re: the bee issue and neonicotinoids: the US Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service published a rather lengthy paper on Colony Collapse Disorder in January of this year. It's worth a read if you are interested.

The long and short of it is that there appears to be no one single cause for the disorder but most likely a combination of factors. It is interesting to note that pesticides - specifically the neonics - are not rated very highly as a possible factor: "A survey of honey bee colonies revealed no consistent pattern in
pesticide levels between healthy and CCD-affected colonies when pollen,
bees, and beeswax were tested for the presence of 170 pesticides. The
most commonly found pesticide in that study was coumaphos, which is used
to treat honey bees for Varroa mites.............Several studies that reported a negative impact on honey bees by
neonicotinoids relied on large, unrealistic doses and gave bees no other
choice for pollen, and therefore did not reflect risk to honey bees
under real world conditions. Nor have the studies demonstrated a direct
connection or correlation to CCD."

They go on to say that "there have been scientific findings that imply that neonicotinoids have
sublethal effects on honey bees at approved doses and exposures. ARS
scientists and other researchers are looking into whether such sublethal
effects may correlate with CCD or other bee health problems and whether
they could be a contributing cause of CCD" (emphasis mine).

This is a discussion - much like the reality of global warming - that will have vigorous supporters on both sides. Do I believe what the ARS is telling us? Yes, I would trust them above a lot of other sources. Honey bees are critical to the agricultural industry and represent a multi-billion dollar impact. It is in their (and our) best interests to explore the problem as thoroughly as possible to determine the cause and arrive at a solution. I have much more faith in the veracity of the scientific community than I do with a lot of alarmist speculation based on junk science.

Honey bee health and CCD

Home Depot has VOLUNTEERED to insert tags on plants that have been treated with neonicotinoids. As far as I know, no other box store is doing this. I applaud their attempts at informing the consumer, and for requiring their vendors to label treated plants. I actually plan on buying more plants at Home Depot (never have much in the past) just because of this labeling program. I can now see if the plant I want to purchase has been treated or not. If more and more of us purchase plants that have not been treated, the vendors will quickly realize that the consumer is aware, and hopefully, more and more plants will become available that have not been treated.

I don't know if neonicotinoids are the cause of CCD, or even a contributing factor, but I don't want to take any chances.

Most of what I've bought at HD in the past couple of years has been so root bound, so over-fertilized, that it's almost a waste of money compared to buying slightly more expensive plants, shrubs, and trees from local nurseries. I bought a beautiful Orangeola Japanese maple there last year (mislabeled, by the way), but after reading up on HD I dug it up this spring and found out it had one of the worst cases of girdling roots I've ever seen-- it was planted too deep and left in its planting container too long. Had I not dug it up, it would have been dead in a couple of years at most. It still might not make it.

I can't remember where I read it, but while reading a blog a few years ago they said HD often buys nursery seconds... the plants that huge nurseries want to be rid of, cheaply, rather than treat/repot/prune. When a grower is getting almost no money for a tree or plant, there's very little motivation to put the hours in to make sure it's growing in a healthy way long-term. Throw some fertilizer pellets on the thing, make it look green and full for a month, and boom-- HD quality plants.

Yes, you can get some good plants there. Not every plant is abused and over-fertilized. In my experience, most plants there are not much of a value compared to the slightly more expensive, but enormously more healthy plants at a local nursery.

I have 3 HDs near me and some are exceptionally better with their garden departments than others. Like a stark difference. It really depends on the store and how much the employees care. I saw several gallon-sized hellebores for $8 at one... there were even flowers on some still. That's a great price and if I hadn't bought one for double the price (and half the size) the day before at my local nursery, I would have picked it up. I went to another HD that same day and the same hellebores were wilted and dying on a neglected rack.

You can actually get some good deals at big box stores at times, in my case if you can snap them up as they're getting off the truck.
I much prefer to pay the extra bucks and buy from the little garden centers and nurseries locally where the plants have been given a little TLC. Of course mustn't forget my yearly trip to Phoenix Perennials on the mainland :).
Annette

yesterday at HD was the first time I saw the white pesticide tags. I wasn't quite speechless because my loud grumble could be heard across the parking lot.

None of the plants I bought had pesticides, if one can presume absence of tag means absence of pesticide.

Big overflowing quarts of lamium purple dragon, woodland phlox "sherwood purple"

their watering schedule had not caught up with the heat. Plants were wilted but no where near dead, and revived quickly at home when watered.

Over the past few years HD has generally treated their stock much better. I was surprised to find them dry yesterday.

When they have sales the prices can't be beat.

Marie, I have noticed that in some pots the tag is below soil level and not apparent till planting time.

I bought Lamium Purple Dragon and Phlox....neither of which is particularly susceptable to diseases or pests and neither had tags.. I noted the ones that were pesticided but I forgot; usually in a daze by the time I leave a big box.

But thanks for pointer. Iĺl continue to be attentive.