You ahould water an AV when thne soil is dry down about an inch from the top. Waiting for the leaves to will will put undue stress on the plant and cause it to go into shock. ITs then that a plant will start to sucker more.
Fred in NJ

Thanks for that info, Fred. I wait until it's just a bit more dry than that, but only because I'm still concerned about the peat soil mix not having enough aeration if it's always damp. But, I only let them dry to the point the soil pulls away from the pot OR the leaves wilt. Usually Day 1 I water and the soil is moderately damp, not wet. Day 2 the soil on top is barely moist. Day 3 the soil is dry on top. Day 4 I water. So far, so good.

I'm new to AVs and of my 50+ pottings, only about 6 of those are actually plants, so I don't know how to assess how well I'm doing. I received two young plants in early August and they've both added a lot of growth and look good, so I'm guessing this is working.

Fred you know something..You just gave me a revelation!!!

No wonder my grandmom keeps getting suckers, and even my sister...They all do this. They wait till wilt, then water..
Fred, when you say starts to sucker more, do you mean send off small shoots?

Because,they are always complaining that they can't keep their plant growing just one big happy one. They keep getting small sucker plants which destroys the shape of theirs...Is this what is happening by constantly shocking theirs. They don't ever kill them, and they do grow well, but boy do they have to keep taking off babies from the mother plant, or it get crowed and ugly, with not much flowering..

Wow, maybe I should have them read this thread.

Thanks

This very thread (and the suckering likelihood) is why I am a strong proponent of wick watering...your plant is the one which decides when to pull more water, not you.

The method is consistent (as long as the container has some water in it) and works very well for many. There's no "Guessing" when the plant needs it or doesn't and there's less mistakes.

Dora

How do you set a wicking technique up for a violet in a 4 inch pot? Is it easy?
Do I have to repot, or can I just stick something in the pot and a bowl of water next to it?
Any idea would be great.
Thanks!

Mike, the issues with wicking are *just* like the ones with self-watering containers. It's the soil that can be too slow and then you have wet AV feet. Wet feet is bad news. Also, you have potential issues of salts accumulating.

You have to have a fast enough soil mix so that you have enough air and it's not soaked all the time. Then, you need to be able to flush every month or so to get rid of the accumulated salts.

MIke,
If you want to start wicking you should first get your mix set. It needs to be very light. I use a 1-1-1 mix of potting soil or pro mix, coarse vermiculite and coarse perlite. For a wick I use worstered weight 4 ply acryllic yarn. The wicking cannot be a natural fiber like wool or cotton because that eventually will rot. I use 4 plies for standards and two plies for mini and semis. The wick should be wet when you use it so it draws up the water and nutrients to the plant. I also scour the wicking to remove any sizing and I keep it in a closed container in water for when I need to use it. When all things work correctly it's great, however, I do suggest that you don't do all your plants at once. Try it out on one plant and see how it works.
Fred in NJ

Mike,
Wick watering is very easy, but I wouldn't use any soil. It's too heavy. I use 1-1-1 of peat, perlite and vermiculite. The best wick I found is an old nylon stocking cut into small strips. I have had trouble with the yarn as one ply keeps some of my minis too wet. On my micro minis, I use a thread. Also remember to cut your fertilizer way back to about 1/4 of what you currently use because they will be fed constantly. Good luck!

I've been growing for years and have over 200 violets (just sold almost 200) and while I admit that I am not an expert - I would like to say that I wick all of my plants and I have not had any trouble with fert salt accumulation.

Perhaps other people do - but when wicking is done correctly ALONG WITH proper fertilizer dosage - it isn't a problem worth passing up on the benefits of wicking. IMO&E.

This subject makes for hours of dialogue and there are some things a grower/hobbiest must be aware of and be careful with....but it works when done correctly.

Dora

Everyone...Thanks for the ideas!

I do have a question, or a couple..

Where in the little pot do you put the wick? And where does the water come from? Do I set a bowl of water next to the pot? Won't the water being held in the bowl be too cold to keep feeding? I thought you had to water violets with warm water..

Sorry if these questions sound a little dumb, or even yet, if they have been answered before..I am so pressed for time, and I just needed some quick help..Thanks so much.:-)

Mike -

there is a website put together by a wonderful lady who is not with us anymore. Her friends are recovering and maintaining it so some links are not working yet.

In any case - it is a best tutorial for the budding AV afficionados - and it has all the photos to see how it is done with your own eyes.

Slide down the home page - and you will see all the topics.

irina

Here is a link that might be useful: Rachel's Reflectios

Wow WoW and WOW!!!

Irina, THANKS soooo much for this link....It has anwered my question. In fact I am running out this weekend to get the supplies to start.

In fact, I plan on looking to this site quite often..

Thankyou soo much again!

Referring back to the first question, if you want the suckers for propagation (as in a chimera), would letting the plant dry out be an alternative way to get the plant to produce them, without cutting the plant? The only way I've seen to propagate chimeras is to cut the top off of the plant, reroot that part, and let the leftover base grow babies. I only have one chimera, and am a little squeamish about cutting it at any point in time, and just wondered if this might pose another way of getting it to produce suckers that bloom true? Or would it cause the plant too much stress? If that's not a good way to go, what would you recommend as the best? Just curious.

Meg

Meg -

in my opinion it is not worth it. You are risking stressing the plant to the point it will sport back to the single color bloom.

Every plant suckers at some point - so if you wait - you will get your sucker sooner or later.

If you want to get 20 suckers - chopping the crown off is a way to go.

Good Luck

irina

Thanks! I won't be trying to propagate my chimera (Emerald City) for a while, because it's relatively new, and I don't want to stress it. Besides, I think the stem might have partially broken at the base during shipping (or maybe even before), so I'm just letting it sit for a while. But I appreciate the input for when I do try it!

Meg

Meg...

"stem" as in the main stem of the plant or one of the stems that the leaf is on?

If your main stem is broken, I would suggest that you do some doctoring and rescuing of the main crown or you will lose the entire plant and any of the leaves that could help you make new plants.

I'm not clear what got broken but I'd hate for you to have a loss of something when it could have been saved easily. Don't want you to miss out - especially since you have money (no matter how much) invested.

Dora

The whole plant was loose and able to wiggle back and forth above the root ball, and while I couldn't see exactly where the break was, I could also see that the plant had set out nice, healthy, white roots right above the point where it would bend when I touched it. I decided to leave the plant and see if those roots sustained it. Not all the roots below that point are dead, so I think it might only be a partial break. I did repot it into a lighter soil so that it would be easier to root than if I left it in the mix it came in. Should I go ahead and cut the bottom of the root ball off (most of the dead is down there)? I think it's sustaining itself on those new roots... it's leaves are still nice and firm, and it's still blooming! It's buds just keep opening up and smiling at me! And it's even sending out a couple new stalks. It seems healthy for now... any pointers on what else to do to help it? Thanks.

Meg

Meg -

for whatever reason my Emerald City suckers non stop. I guess it doesn't like the real estate.

If you want to have a healthy plant - you need to sacrifice current blooms, means - disbud them, remove lower leaves, get your plant out of the pot - cut off the wobbly part - or half of the root ball - or whatever you think is best - and plant it with the new roots covered. Bag it for a week - and very soon you will have a sturdy plant with fresh bloom. In my experience plant that do not have enough light become wobbly. They stretch up and become unstable. Not a big problem - but it is necessary to plant them deeper and increase light.

Good Luck

irina

Meg,
If I understand correctly what you are saying, I would encourage you to remove the entire plant from the dirt/pot.

Pull, strip, cut off old root from underneath root ball. This will "shorten" the plant and prepare it to be potted "down".

If you have more than 3 or 4 rings of leaves, remove the outer 2 rings by cutting them at the base of the leaf stem. This will lengthen the "neck" of the plant and give you something to pot "deeper" into the dirt.

Once this is accomplished, hopefully, the break (whether partial or full) will be below the soil surface.

If you see that the break is full - then finish the break, remove some rings of leaves and pot down into new mix. Scrape the stem/neck of the plant to make it open/raw so that root systems will mroe easily develop when they begin to grow.

No matter what choice or method or option you choose, I agree with Irina that the plant should be bagged for a week or two (I usually do mine for about 2 to 3 and then the root system is magnificant and sturdy).

I hope I'm understanding your description correctly.

I have taken plants that visitors bring to our meetings becasue they haven't bloomed in years....we cut them down (much to their horror but we always gain permission beforehand and explain why) shorten the neck, remove a few rings of leaves, groom the plant a bit more, place them in our soiless mix, bag them and treat them....

The visitor often leaves dismayed at what we did but almost alwasy lets us know within a few weeks that she/he has healthy new growth adn eventually lots of healthy blooms.

Good Luck,
Dora

This is an aside to what you were explaning, Dora. I read a discussion on another forum recently about an article that tested whether necks should be scraped. In the research, the controls (that were not scraped and did not have a rooting hormone applied) all did better than plants that were either scraped, had rooting hormone applied, or were bother scraped and had rooting hormone.

Huh. I think a lot of us scrape! It was a very interesting discussion.

Here is a link that might be useful: Forum with discussion regarding scraping

Thanks for all the input, guys! Here's an update: I took off at least half the old roots (I left some because I do think it's only a partial break - some were still alive), and a row of leaves, which made 2 rows of extra space because a row had broken off in the mail. Then I removed 2 suckers that I hadn't noticed :P, planted them in their own pots, and replaced the original plant in its pot with some new soil on top, burying the now quite lengthy neck all the way to the leaves. It's secure, and not wobbling. I put it in a plastic bag, along with the little ones, and I guess we'll see what happens. The roots coming from above the break looked healthy when I had them out of the pot, so here's hoping they'll take hold and I'll have an even healthier plant! Thanks again - with your help I might actually be getting the hang of this AV thing. I'm pretty sure it's an addiction, but that's not a problem, even if it is I'm enjoying every minute of it!

Meg

Meg, it can become an addiction....but who gives a rat's rear end if we like it, aren't hurting anyone, no one is getting cancer or .... I was going to say dui....but we sometimes do drive under the influence of a plant sale or show, don't we? LOL

I think the more experience you gain, the more you will learn to discern what you want and how you want to do it and you'll continue to tweak your hobby and gain more pleasure. Different peoplel like different types, colors, styles, blooms, etc. You'll have to figure out what you like and how you like to do it.

and to comment on the scraping...I scrape. I don't scrape every single millimeter of the neck though. I prefer not to be all bogged down in tons of research and discussion...takes time from my pleasure with the plants and as I always say to anyone growing, if it is working for you then it's not broken and doesn't need fixing. If it isn't working, then find out how someone else is doing it that is getting results that you want. Then do what they do. That seems simple enough to me. People are turned off quicker by long/lengthy/complicated explanations of how to grow violets, in my opinion. They should be fun and problems addresses and get back to the fun. Life is too short to have everything about your "self" tied into some flowers.

No offense meant to the person who introduced scraping or explanations of research in this or other post.

Dora

No offense taken, Dora, though I'm completely different. It's a good thing that we're all here, isn't it? The fun to me is in learning about it and seeing science in action. I love optimizing my time and getting the best results for my effort. To me, not much is more upsetting than when I find there is a different way that is proven to be better in some way and I've not followed it because I was not paying attention - that makes me feel as though I wasted an opportunity. I'm a mad scientist at heart; I don't follow anything blinding, rather I challenge why we do what we do and try to find ways to optimize the experience.

Since I am a scientist at heart, I believe that there are certain principles/rules/truths that apply to AVs. Each of us has decided - conscious or unconsciously - if we're interesting in knowing if those principles have meaning. Since we each do this for potentially different reasons, it's likely that some of us do not find meaning in them, but that others of us find a lot of meaning in them.

We are here (all of us) for different reasons and have different expectations. I think anyone who reads a forum tends to find others who think/write/work in a similar way and gravitate towards those people. So, you're not likely to find my posts interesting - which is perfectly fine as I know someone else will.

As they say in 12 step meetings....take what you need and leave the rest.

I'm sure someone else will find what's left and enjoy it, too.

Dora - hi -

no matter if you scrape or not - the roots will grow. It just saves us extra work and dirt under the nails. And I do not like dirt under my nails ;-00

About innovations - I am like Lath -I read something - want to try - but I got burned more than once because I didn't stick to the rule - try on several plants and wait to see how it works. Sometimes it flops.

Irina, not scraping anymore.

Irina, you got that right - one MUST follow the rule to only try ONE thing at a time AND to WAIT for results before replicating.

Like you, I've been burned....

Otherwise - you get the necky plant - even before repotting - put it under the dome - and it will have roots all over the place. Even easier to repot - stick the root covered stub into the soil - and off it goes.

I.

irina.
how are you getting your nails dirty? I'm lost.

Dora

I am always dirty when I am working - even if the hands are clean - the soil will be on my lap, on the floor, the clean pots are always flying, sometimes cat helps too.

Just repotted the whole shelf - 4 trays - in latex gloves - and my nails eventually got through the gloves. The biggest challenge - was trying to pin the trailer so the stems would grow symmetrically - the pins or skewers just refuse to stay put in a loose soil.

The biggest pain - if pots are dirty - the mat gets green with algae in a hurry.

I.

Dora, upthread I think that Irina also meant that not scraping the stem meant her nails stayed a bit cleaner....but as we all know, it's impossible to stay clean working with plants!

Dora you think alot like I do. When the fun's gone what do you have left? Nada! So if the interest stays your good to go. When it becomes a drudgery time to hang up the gloves.

Thus far my fav of the AV's are the Senk's, wasp flower, mini, semi mini and micro-mini's. I don't think this will change for me because in growing Hoya's I also gravitate towards the small leaf types most and have for over 8 yrs. now. The smaller the leaf usually the better I like a plant.
I have a Siamese cat that enjoys following me plant to plant and back and forth to get water. She seems very curious and must of in a former life been a gardener. haha. She does now and then take a taste of a new vine here and there but I must say she has class,,,it's usually the more expensive or rare plant she uhhhh 'grooms' for me. hehe.

On another note,,,I may be a complete idiot for thinking or saying this,,,if you wick and didn't have the wick laying or touching the bottom of the reservoir would you be less likely to get the salts? Wouldn't salts or any other minerals float to the bottom of the container by gravity? My point is would dangling the wick maybe avoid salts from being sucked up the wick? Even dissolved in the water it would still be a heavier particle in the water.
I wasn't great in science as you probably have no doubts about now after this post. haha.,,,,Debbie

It sounds nice if it would work, but if you didn't wick the salts, you'd have no fertilizer - dried salts are unused fertilizer. When you add more fertilizer than a plant can uptake, it dries into salts that are left in the soil. You can't avoid sucking them up - or you'd avoid having fertilizer in your plants. That make sense?

So, your best bet is to use just as much fertilizer as your plants need and not a drop more. If you start seeing salt buildup, it's likely you're using more than the plants want and need.

Okie,
I try to keep it simple and help other people do that too.

Currently, I have 3 trays that are on community wicking and I pour the treated water into the tray and when it reaches teh bottom of the egg crate, I stop pouring. If I see that the tray needs washing out, I take it out and do it. While I do measure the additives that I put into my AV water, I don't measure anything else.

Keep it simple,
Dora

Coming back to add that the reason I was confused by the "getting nails dirty" in relation to scraping is that I don't use my nails when I work with my violets. I use tools and I couldnt figure out how that was relating to dirty nails.

Dora

Hi all,
I just finished reading all the comments on watering again. Lots of good suggestions here. I think one of the most important things to do that was mentioned earlier was to try what you want to do on just one plant. If it doesn't work out with one then you haven't lost much. As for scraping the neck of crowns when there are no roots, I generally use my fingernail to get the calouses off. If the plant has no roots at all, you probably would do better if you put the plant in a covered container. OTHer tnan that I just put them right on wicks.
I have included a link to a set of photographs that I took when I was forced to rip apart Ness' ORange Pekoe.
Fred in NJ

Here is a link that might be useful: Operation Ness' Orange Pekoe

Dora -

Usually I do less damage with nails than with tools - unless it is a narrow spot. In all this scraping - I was trying to remove the brown corky stuff, not scratch the skin - and now looks like we do not need to do it at all.

Just spent 3 days in a basement repotting everything.

Irina -Too many violets.