I'm guessing that it's paper. Heading above it says
"BUY RHIMAX PAPER PRODUCTS ONLINE"

I'd go for cardboard.

Karen

Thank you. Yes it is paper. Why do you recommend cardboard instead?

Catherine

Catherine: Or paper's OK, too. I only used paper once, and the problem was most likely me. I think maybe I didn't use enough layers of paper. For a year everytime I dug in that bed little shreds of paper came up and blew around. Again probably my fault and many folks love paper.

I've never had a problem with cardboard. I've used plain, heavy corrugated cardboard. It seems to rot faster as I just don't "run into" it and have pieces blowing away. Someone told me that it rots better due to air layers, but I don't really know if that's true.

Either paper or cardboard will be fine. I just wouldn't spend all that money for paper.

Why do you plan to remove paper or cardboard in spring?

Karen

Karen,

I was thinking the cardboard would not decay fast enough and we would need to remove it to give the grass seeds deep enough dirt to put roots down. (We will only add a thin layer of compost/soil to this area as it needs to stay fairly level with th existing lawn--can't make a raised bed.)

I thought the paper would decompose faster and we would not have to pull it up--also as it is thinner I thought if bits of it remained the grass roots would be able to push through.

Sounds your experience is just the opposite.

Thanks so much!
Catherine

Hmmm......I'm not much of a lawn person. All I know about lawns is covering it with cardboard to smother grass, topping with organic matter "lasagna style" and converting it to flower beds!

Are you familiar with lasagna gardening? You put down cardboard or thick layers of paper and top with layers of green and brown compostable materials, anywhere from 6 inches to a couple of feet. It rots in place>>> "instant dirt". Then you plant in that. You're making compost in place and don't need to buy soil, you already have "stuff" to plant in. It rots down to almost nothing so you don't raise the level of the soil. Very cheap (free!) way to go. I've done it several times and I think it's wonderful for flower beds.

As I said I've not planted grass in this but I don't see why you couldn't. I have planted tiny seedlings in it, at one or 2 leaf stage, and they have thrived. They have no problem putting down roots.

Another random thought. Is your ground frozen most of winter? If so weeds wouldn't pop then, right? So I don't see a reason for cardboard at all if you're going to remove it in spring.

Hopefully someone with more experience with lawns will pop in here to save you from me and my lunacy, Catherine.

Karen

Karen,

I'm not much of a lawn peson either honestly. But we have a 4 year old and hope to acquire a dog soon. So, lawn is the goal for the next few years.

I am vaguely familar with lasagna gardening and appreciate the description. I think that might work for another area where we will eventually put a bed in (too shady for grass). Is this suitable for areas under trees? I would not want to smother the trees. I do not think it will work for the areas where we want to establish lawn as it would make the lawn uneven.

Our ground is generally not frozen for much, if any, of the winter. We generally do not get snow until January and while temperatures dip below freezing before that, they are usually above freezing for most of the day. So I think it likely that we would benefit from some effort to surpress the weeds.

Thank you so much for your help!
Catherine

Catherine: I guess the cardboard or paper would be beneficial, then. But still, I'd add think mulch over it which would break down by spring plus serve to hold the paper in place and keep it moist to promote breakdown. The paper/cardboard/mulch would rot and add organic matter to the soil, improving quality. Less dirt to buy! Why pay for "topsoil" (you never know what you'll get) or expensive compost when you can make your own? Leaf season is here, we all use our own leaves and gather them from neighbors too.

I think you are really overestimating how much the soil level will be raised. I "lasagnaed" this area (where the red salvia are) in early spring last year. I killed off existing lawn by smothering with cardboard and topped with about 8" grass clippings, leaves, partially composted stuff, and yard waste. As you can see, the soil level is not elevated at all. It shrinks to almost nothing. Those plants went in as tiny seedlings, only about 1" to 2" tall. They obviously had no problem putting down roots.

{{gwi:311364}}

I REALLY wish some of the soil experts would jump in here for you. If you don't get some other opinions here, there's always the lawn forum. They know a lot about growing grass, but probably not as much about soil as you find here. "Feed the soil, not the plant".

Karen

How quickly the cardboard will be digested will depend on how healthy your soil is. If there are few earthworms in that soil that would indicate there is little soil bacteria also and that would mean the cardboard will not get digested quickly. Another thing that will influence the rate of digestion is soil temperatures, if the soil temperature drops below 45 the soil bacteria will cease operations and that cardboard will not get digested.
The better the soil is, an active Soil Food Web, and the warmer the soil is the faster the cardboard will be digested.

If by "brush" you meant woody plants, you might have to get a little more nasty. A lot of woody plants will put out a lot of growth after being mowed and thus need to be dug out (Weed Wrench is a good tool), continuously hacked or poisoned. If it's not woody plants then go with the above reccommendations. I also found that a crop of cereal rye planted in fall helped a lot in suppressing weeds over the winter - just make sure to get rid of the rye grain before it goes to seed. Also, depending on the type of grass you want, you might be able to plant some types of grass even now in VA and get a head start although a few months of weed suppression first sounds like a good plan.

Yes, brush definitely includes woody plants. Sadly it also includes ivy. They are going to spray the ivy with Round-up. I would like to minimize our chemical use as much as possible though.

My guess is that the soil is not healthy at all. We just bought the place and the previous owners were not into gardening, maintenance or (given the huge quanity of absurdly dangerous chemicals they so thoughtfully left behind) organic anything. I do plan to do a soil test but haven't gotten around to it yet. I suspect we will need to add some things and that might be another reason to hold off on seeding until spring. It would give the soil time to incorporate any necessary admendments.

Hmm, so maybe the plan should be (1) clear brush, (2) lay out and wet down cardboard, (3) cover with leaf mulch (got plenty of leaves I can shred), (4) watch for stuff growing up through the cardboard and cut it off/dig it up, (5) seed in the Spring and (6) overseed next fall. . . .

Thank you all!
Catherine