A comparison with small perlite.

Queen Sabrina out of her pot.

The Queen is prepared for planting

Very smooth, clean and quick affair to get her potted

I should clarify. I won't start using fertilizer for a while, give her time to develop roots.

One last photo showing the holes in the side of the "pot".

I decide to put her under a dome for a week or so.

Please feel free to comment or make suggestions.

Hi It is a great photo essay! However, ordinarily when transplanting, the plant should be disbudded. Transplanting is a shock. It has to grow new roots, and adjust to the new medium, so for it to sustain blossoms at the same time is probably more than it can handle. You can nip the buds at the base and place them as a mini bouquet in a "shot" glass or even a solo cup. Add a pinch of sugar. The blooms in water with sugar will often last as long as they would on the plant.

Thanks for the advice fortyseven. I didn't know about the sugar. I know I'm suppose to disbud. I'll do as you suggest and keep the blooms for as long as they last.

I did find out something tonight. My son in law tells me that the grow stones will not wick the water up. That most people use these or clay pellets along with a pump system that pumps fertilized water up to the tops of the pots several times a day. I think I may have made a mistake thinking the grow stones would wick water throughout from the bottom. Now, I am wondering about using them with a perlite vermiculite mix, maybe 1:1:1 and possibly with a wick?

I think I might go ahead and plant Queen Sabrina the old fashion way since she is a chimera. I will experiment on a NOID.

Dixie

hi:

1. I love the grow stones ...they look great ... i'd like to buy some and try them too.

2. Do they wick? According to some sites they do. Will they wick enough for what you want? I don't know.... fill a new pot without plants and put a piece of cardboard about 1/2 inch inside and see how long it takes to become wet. I do this with perlite to check sometimes.

3. It's best not to experiment on your favourite plant ... but I still think you'll be fine ... i'm just guessing ofcourse... if she is in a humidity dome maybe she's not in immediate danger ... but if you take her out and they're not wicking enough it would be bad.

4. humidity ... I don't know enough to say ... but when I put mine inside domes when they're in perlite they start to mold ... I imagine that the evaporating water in the perlite or the moisture tray gives them enough humidity. but that's just me ... don't take my word for it ....

trying to clear this up... I put the potted perlite plant in water ... but then I also put that closed pot inside another larger dish of water to increase humidity ... and everything is open. Yes it would be simpler to just put the original pot inside a large container but sometimes I want to isolate different pots so they're not mixing their roots/perlite and maybe picking up germs from each other....

I hope the above was clear ... i'm so sorry i'm rushing...

am very, very interested in this thread... and thank you for the beautiful photos ... :)

what wicks and how much etc....

experiment!!! I have seen perlite wick to ? 7 or 8 inches ... by putting a piece of cardboard inside the pot ... just ? 1/2 inch inside the medium and the rest standing up in air.

I want to tape a couple of large pop bottles together to make a really super tall pot ... to see how far up it will wick.

you can do the same with all your mediums and combinations.

(and here i'm assuming since the cardboard is getting wet then the medium is moist etc...)

but i'm as new at this as you are and there isn't as much information as i'd like out there....but i'm still looking....

I think that vermiculite holds on to more moisture than perlite does and i'm already finding that for some plants perlite holds too much moisture so i'm not looking at vermiculite.

ok ..all the best for now....

a fail safe...

take a few leaves..

try rooting them in your new stuff ...

and root some the known method ...

soooo.. just in case you lose this big plant with no roots...

in a month or two.. you might resurrect it from new babes ...

NEVER ... rely on one method ... unless you are willing to risk all .. maybe you already have duplicates sitting around...

and .. if you are going to experiment... may as well cover all the options...

ken

Dixie,
Please follow Ken's advice. Soil roots are smaller and finer.
Water roots are longer and thicker. Soil roots won't change to water roots, the plant would have to grow new roots. Suggest you put the plant back into soil. When wanting to grow in water, you have to start a plant from the beginning so it grows water roots.
You could cut off the crown and try rooting it in water. But that might not succeed. Chimeras are more sensitive, they cannot take a lot of handling or changes in their culture.

If you start a plant in water, if it grows roots and leaves, you can transfer it later to soil, but it might have to grow new soil roots before it takes off. Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Tue, Nov 25, 14 at 22:43

Sorry for the lapse in response, with work and the holiday I haven't been able to do much with AVs this last week. I am trying the cardboard test suggested. I have two small styrofoam "pots" set up: one with holes up a half inch from the bottom and around the pot and the other with a wick. Will see if the growstones wick the the water or not.

I did find a couple of websites with info and it appears that it is possible that the growstones will wick. Here are some links in case that you are interested in reading:

http://www.growstone.com/2013/02/why-roots-love-growstones/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQ5iSNeXRg

I found this on a website that talks about all kinds of hydroponic media. The website is below as well in case you want to see the whole site:
Growstones are made from recycled glass. Growstones are light weight, unevenly shaped, porous, and reusable, they provide good aeration and moisture to the root zone. They have good wicking ability and can wick water up to 4 inches above the water line. So you'll want to make sure it has good drainage or is deep enough so it doesn't wick water all the way to the top. Otherwise like with the growing media in any hydroponic system, if the top of the growing media is continually wet, you may have problems with stem rot. While they are made from recycled glass, their not sharp and you wont get cut from it, even if they break.
http://www.homehydrosystems.com/mediums/mediums_page.html

I will report on my wicking experiment a little later this evening.

Dixie

This is after 15 minutes. The pot with the holes along the bottom and submerged in water clearly wicks better than the pot with the wick.

This is after 30 minutes. I think it's safe to say using a wick with griwstones is not reliable.

So I'm going to try this again since I know the growstones will wick. I planted up this noid.

Here it is on my AV stand with a little saucer. My trial will be to add water to the saucer every 3 days and see if that is sufficient. I don't believe I can leave it standing in water all the time, I think it would become to wet.

I am also not sure about placing it under a dome. Someone on here said not to do so because the plant would rot. Will it survive and develop a root system quick enough without the humidity?

Dixie

I just noticed the date on the pot. I used the same pot it was in with poting mix (throughly sanitized of course) and neglected to change the date.

Not sure if you can tell from this photo, but this is the container i used with my hydroton experiment - holes up the side of the container starting at about 3/4 inch up. there was always some water in the bottom. an upturned wine glass worked as a dome, fitting inside the rim of the pot, covering the plant, but not the pot itself. So the building root system always had air.

the root system that developed in the hydroton. (plant is Optimara little crystal, crown rooted in the hydroton)

I abandoned the hydroton experiment, because of space, mainly, and i did not feel inclined to fuss with fertilizer dosages, when my other mix works fine, mostly.

(Btw, dixie, i mean to reply to your email, i just have been busy)

Karin

Karin, do you think the crown rotted cuz of the wine glass? I can't remember who posted it above, but someone said you can't cover plants with growstones and I would think it would be the same with the clay pellets.

Sorry, i should have explained better... This one did fine. the ones that rotted were in solid glass jars AND domed - no air flow to the roots...
So my theory is, if you use a mesh container, or one with enough holes up the sides to provide airflow to the roots, you can dome the plant itself with no ill effects...
BUT my sample size is 1, so it could just have been a fluke...

This post was edited by froeschli on Sun, Nov 30, 14 at 13:49

OH, I see. That makes perfect sense. The place where I bought the growstones sells the mesh pots, even 2" size ones.

hi Dixie, if you don't mind I just want to add to this from my perspective.

As you know i'm growing av's in perlite ... because it's easiest available.

1. Water line:

So far I do have mine standing in water. I would be scared to leave them without since I don't know how quickly the roots would dry out and be damaged. (maybe ? 6 hours? no idea).

the amount of water they're standing in depends on the plant ... on the geraniums it's about 1/10th of the pot and the av leaves and new crown cuttings it can be 3/4 of the pot, eventually i'll let that go down to less than 1/4 of the pot.

Since my husband can only water once per week I might use taller pots, even cutting a pop bottle and making a really tall planter, to prevent the roots being too close to the water line.

2. humidity:

When I transfer a large/old av (neck cutting) I do increase the humidity by adding a saucer underneath. All the leaves I put under domes got mildew - about 3 domes. So that was why I suggested not putting under domes ... although I do like Karin's suggestion and it's very much worth a try.

This is such a great experiment. For me I need to get a system where people that have no idea about watering any kind of plant can just step in and water to the line marked.

I may go back to the soilless 1:1:1 method with wicks, it might be easier to use that and use sand/gravel and diatomaceous earth to prevent gnats.

I have had a lot of problems with geranium cuttings and my perlite method. I have also found that soil does help prevent against black rot and pythium and makes it harder for the pythium bacteria to spread. It would also help I think if I used half perlite and half gravel to stop the perlite from absorbing too much water. But right now it's all a very fun experiment with the geraniums. The African violets I haven't had any problems with ...knock on wood.

I very much want to try the grow stones. I love that they're so light. I have hanging baskets that I want to try them on next summer. The hydroton would be good too but it's as heavy as soil .. I think ... anyway it's really too heavy.

thank you so much for this fun thread and for your very clear photos.

oh ps: I fully expect to use the hydrons for my av's .... first they're proven to be reliable ... at least Irina uses them and her av's are beautiful. And also maybe they're not as moist as the perlite is, standing in water, maybe that extra dryness will prevent some problems... (I have no idea :) )

I also wonder if different perlite would give me different results. At the moment i'm using MG and it has fertilizer I didn't want plus they're very small pieces and powder. It's possible that another perlite would give me better results ... i'll try that eventually. :)

all the best for now. :)

Very curious how this turns out! I hate using perlite so I would love to be able to consider another alternative

toronto.and.brisbane that is all very good info. Here is the little one I planted in the growstones last weekend. I didn't put a dome on it at all, it is still sitting in the same place and looks pretty good to me. I tugged on it every so slightly and it is rooted.Actually, I will have to post the picture separately from my phone.

NOID planted in growstones 11-29-14. No done, just open on the plant stand.

wow Dixie that looks really good!!!!

rooted already? .... did you cut off the neck? and it rooted already from scratch ....wow... did you use a hormone powder or something??? I don't think any of mine have rooted yet.

is it standing in water or you just water it every day? ... is it on a humidity tray?

Yes, I cut off the neck and I didn't use any hormone powder. I Have it on a very small tray that I add water to every third day, up over the holes along the sides down towards the bottom. It is not standing in water, but the grow stones hold water. Seems similar to just using perlite, but I do think the larger very porous stones work better than just perlite.

well it's done amazingly well compared to mine ...

about 2 months ago I potted a neck of a young av in perlite but I used a terracotta pot ... so I re potted it a couple of days ago. I had maybe 2 - quarter of an inch roots ... that's it!

the plant looks good. there's no humidity dome. just very slow to root.

it had been standing in water about ? 1 inch in a 16 oz pot .... because it had to be kept away from the water line.

well that's my experiment for the moment... will recheck the roots in a couple of months I guess.

A different av, I had separated a cluster of tiny babies and they're growing well ...same conditions.

Anyway sounds really good Dixie... very impressive ...:)

So far it seems like a good way to grow AVs if you do not want to use peat. I think it is better than perlite alone. I have the original plant Queen Sabrina in perlite only. I got scared when my son in law told me that the grow stones wouldn't wick and I moved her. She is under a dome and is doing well, but doesn't have the same feel of strong roots as the little NOID and she was planted in the perlite a week earlier than the NOID was planted in the grow stones.

Dixie

Wondering how this experiment turned out