Unfortunately, I don't think that's a safe assumption at all. The right nutrients may mean that plants may be better at dealing with diseases if they grow there as opposed to a deficient soil.

Soil borne pathogens tend to be omnipresent. However, if you have a good, healthy, bioactive soil with adequate organic matter and nutrient content, you will grow healthier plants more able to withstand diseases (and droughts and temperature extremes and bugs, etc.).

That makes sense. If the plant is healthy it would be better protected from disease.

In my area powdery mildew rears its ugly head every year as soon as the humidity reaches a certain level. A quick spray of milk keeps it in check. Most problems can be addressed with an organic solution, all one has to do is ask. More than likely the solution is quick and simpleÂ

Blutranes

I can't give references but there are many studies indicating good soil health correlating with good plant health, including resistance to drought, pest, even cold damage.

I have not been able to build the perfect soil. I am working on it. It seems to me if the plant is healthy enough it could be disease free. If I can keep the plants from blooming,(PINCHING THEM OFF) until they are very strong. I will be half way there. I will spray with superphosphate 0-20-0 to get the plant to bloom. When I am ready for it to. I know this may not work, but I am going to keep on trying. What do you think?

I simply believe that adding organic matter to the surface is all that is needed. Adding any form of chemicals or fertilizer can be and often is harmful. This not over simplfied, rather the complexities of how the soil works is to big as to not be able to be explained. Now there is specific knowledge available but the whole thing is to big.

As blutranes explains about powdery mildew, we have a specific problem with some answers. Yet, wine grape growers in Ca spend great sums and much research to control powdery mildew with limited success. So, wine grapes don't belong in Ca but they make so much money that they continue.

I get your drift, but I am more concerned about insecticides and herbicides than I am soil nutrients. Just my way of thinking.

Herbicides or insecticides may find their way into our bodies with varied degrees of hard. What we put in the soil finds its way into the plants with varied degrees of hard.

Adding fertilizer often does great harm to the fungus that is as necessary to the plant as our air and blood.

PS this is just simple science, known science.

What do I think? I think that you should follow your inclinations and experiment till you are satisfied with the result. What works for you in your particular area with your climate and soil may not work for me just the same way.

After years of ammending my garden heavily with shredded oak leaves, home made compost and horse manure I have my soil and the clay beneath it (or what used to be clay) to the point where I am surprised with each passing season at how well something is growing in my garden. I also plant a fall cover crop of greens to provide some good eating until around the first of the year, then mow and turn them under with the other ammendments that I add to the garden. I mulch heavily with shredded oak leaves after my plants are up tall enough, and the tomato plants are in the ground, cages set and soak hoses strung.

I use some dry molasses and alfalfa pellets in a few applications but the only commercial, chemical fertilizer that I have used in several years is a sparing amount of Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0 after adding a thick layer of shredded oak leaves, the sulphur to help adjust the pH just a tad and the nitrogen might help to break down the leaves.

The plants in my garden thrive (I have posted numerous pictures in many threads), produce well and are relatively disease free. I have not had to use anything for disease control in the past few years. They also seem to withstand insects pretty well, the only thing that I have had to use for pest control the past two years has been some dawn dishwashing liquid mixed with water in a hand held spray bottle. I also thik think that I had some unexpected help from a flock of sparrows that frequented the garden, they were constantly working in and and around the plants and I did not find any dammage that I thought that they caused.

I do not pinch or prune anything, I think that there needs to be a balance between the roots and the top growth and the plant knows better than I what that needs to be.

I have become sold on the concept of feeding the soil to feed the plants from first hand personal experience and observation of what has happened over the years for me. I make my excellent home made compost out of as many different ingredients as possible and feel that that helps immensly also.
I think that if there is diverse other material in your soil, microbes can turn it into just what plant food each individual plant needs in order to be all that it can be, like a good Marine. ":^)
That is off the top of my head.
Bill P.

These are the minerals I use high calcium lime, soft rock phosphate, gypsum, ammonium sulfate and compost. I am just asking. Do you think these are harsh chemical?

Yes and no. Compost is not, some of the others are. Have you had a soil test or analysis done ? If you have, and are adding the lime, phospate, and ammonium sulfate as recommended, then you should be allright, provided you are open to using chemicals, which you seem to be.

If not, and if you have alkaline soil, adding the lime would be compounding a problem. My soil leans slightly toward alkaline so the sulphur helps to adjust the pH, but I surely do not need to add any lime to my garden.

If you have enough of those other elements already, there is no use adding more, sometimes you can overdo a good thing and cause big problems, like tieing up the nutirents so that the plants can not take them up, plus waste money in pouring them on the ground.

Your local County Extension Agent can be found in the government pages of your local phone book and is a good starting point to get an inexpensive soil analysis done that can save lots of guesswork, time and money. That is just my .02.
Bill P.

The ammonium sulfate may be considered a strong chem, but the other ingredients
are definitely good soil ammendments/feeders.

I am a vegetarian and there are things that I just can't put in my soil. Bone meal is one, the problem with it is the hormones the cattle get shot up with bothers me. Alfalfa meal could have all kind of chemicals in it from the growing fields. I don't have a problem with green sand, seaweed(I guess) Liquid fish solids is the same as the bone meal. I don't mean to be splitting hairs here it is just the way I feel.

Where do you live?

Gypsum can help certain clays absorb water better, but there aren't many places with the clay that can be helped by gypsum. It can also help alleviate salt buildup, but it's pretty rare than an area that would have salt buildup would also have acidic soil. Salt buildup is usually due to irrigation on arid soils, and arid soils are more likely than not to be alkaline.

I would second Bill's advice on getting a soil test before adding anything else. My soil has plenty of P and K naturally, and I'd be happy to get it to a point where it would (as Bill put it) lean toward alkaline.

I understand your concerns about the chemicals that may have been used to grow the alfalfa, but that seems somehow inconsistent with your willingness to use ammonium sulfate. It seems to me that the chemicals used on the alfalfa fields would be greatly diluted by the time the alfalfa got to you, but they'd be pretty concentrated in the ammonium sulfate.

I do not have perfect soil, but having the ability to get out in the garden and do my best to reach that goal is one of the reasons I enjoy gardening. To me nothing is perfect, it is a matter of accepting the things I cannot control while making changes to things I can. The environment is full of pollution, my neighbors spray chemicals that drift onto my property, cars emit toxic gases, rain brings elements from far away as it waters my plants are some examples. However, there are things I can do to minimize their effect, but I can never stop them completely.

ATTRA provides a list of acceptable items the organic powers that be say are approved for use in "certified organic" farming programs (Super Phosphate is not on the list). For you jackman1944 some of the things listed are not acceptable, however the list is extensive and there may be some things you can use.

Compost making is another project you can consider that can provide a certain level of chemical free amendment for your use. The EPA uses compost to clean up toxic waste sites such as oil spills and other dangerous toxic elements in the environment. The only way you could guarantee using absolute chemical free items in creating a compost pile will call for having a closed system where you only use ingredients that come from that system. Even that will not be perfect, but to me such is life. I trust the link will give you some ideasÂ

Blutranes

Here is a link that might be useful: ATTRA

"Am I right to assume if the soil has all the right nutrients and micronutrients there will be no soil born diseases?"
If everything is in balance AND the plant is appropriate for where it is put. You might want to frop by the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Gardening

If everything is in balance AND the plant is appropriate for where it is put.

It is a little bit more complicated than that. Soil borne pathogens are present in any soil. If the soil is sufficiently healthy and bioactive, beneficial organisms act to suppress the activities of most pathogens. Suppress does not translate to total immunity nor does it mean that these pathogens are not present. And not all pathogens are vulnerable to the beneficials and many go through a period of inactivity (or dormancy, if you will) that makes them immune to predation. Sometimes it requires the innoculation of specific microorganisms to counteract the pathogens. Additionally, if the plant is stressed for some reason - drought, transplanting or other root disturbance, wounding or physical injury - IT becomes more vulnerable and pathogens are more able to infiltrate despite soil quality.

That said, a quality, well balanced and bioactive soil will go a long way in reducing the incidence of soil borne plant diseases. A lot of research is currently being done on biological control of plant diseases - of the 40 new pesticides registered by the EPA in 1995, half were biopesticides and there are several studies being done on the ability of green manures (cover crops) to thwart various soil diseases.

Here is a link that might be useful: suppression of soil borne diseases

Thank you to everyone it has been fun and knowledgeable.
The soil I am trying to achieve is-----AN-----40
PN-----40
P------240
POTASSIUM---240
CALCIUM-----3000
MAGNESIUM---400
SODIUM------50
ERGS--------180
PH------6.8

I have read "suppression of soil borne disease" before, but this time I saw something I didnÂt see before.

"Cucumber
Sphaerotheca sp. / Powdery mildew
Young cucumber plants grown in soil/compost mix of variable rates. 1:1 soil:compost mix decreased PM by 20% over control; 1:3 mix decreased infection by 40% (19)".

I have been adding one inch of humus and one inch of compost each year. Next year I am going to experiment by adding ½ inch more of each to see what happens. I am still going to be standing by with the sprayer with the milk solution, however thinking back each year the PM has been less sever.

Then too while reading a thought popped in my head. This site is for farmers, how can someone with a small plot use crop rotation when all I am dealing with is a 10x30 foot plot? All one is growing is a couple of each veggie I like and a row of beans. Remembering a link provided concerning root growth; the roots just about cover the entire plot.

As well, there is the mature compost issue. Namely, the ATTRA site suggests using finished compost that has cured for four months to be added each year. Keeping in mind it takes about four months to make finished compost. This will be very tricky if one is not making a lot of compost; not to mention the amount needed to add inches to the plot. These farmers grow crops to put food on the table, keep the lights on, and pay the other bill. All I want is to not have to run to KrogerÂs every time I want a tomato or onion.

What does one do it that situationÂ

Blutranes

Jackman, you can say that you will not use apple peals in your compost because it was sprayed or any vegetable or fruit you buy because it has been sprayed.

There is only so far you can go. Compost will take care of many ills.

Try a section of your garden with nothing but organic matter and another adding whatever you think is proper. This will take about 3-5 years to see any difference. If after this period you see little if any difference then all the things you've added were not necessary.

I repeat, it is a long term thing!

"I get your drift, but I am more concerned about insecticides and herbicides than I am soil nutrients. Just my way of thinking."

You can avoid herbicides by using mulch, weeds that grow through can be pulled easily. Herbicides used are under our control; don't use them or find organically safe methods in your garden. Please remember not all weeds (defined as anything that was not planted on purpose) or insects are bad, some are our friends and are of great value.

Blutranes