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is front yard too small even for small trees?

19 years ago

Hi. I need some unbiased advice, hoping someone here can provide it. (The nursery rep said "sure, you can do that" but he had money at stake.)

I desperately would like to plant two trees in my front yard to "frame" the view of the house, but I'm afraid it's too small. I'm thinking Washington Hawthorn. I want something kind of sprawling and airy instead of round and dense. Hawthorn is recommended by our city as a street tree, so I don't have any question of appropriateness in that respect, just size. The area between the front edge of the gutter and the front sidewalk is probably only about 11'. The tree supposedly gets 20' wide. The porch roof is very shallow, so it could hang over the roof some, though I know I would need to keep it trimmed back so it's not touching. I'm sure my roofer would not approve. To keep it more off the roof, I could plant closer to the sidewalk, but will that have a detrimental effect on the roots? Everything I've read says keep it at *least* 3' from the sidewalk. Each tree would also be roughly 3' from a driveway.

Also, I have a gas line on one edge of the house, and the spot I'm hoping for is right over that.

So with all those obstacles, does it sound like it's possible? Or does someone have some other recommendation for a tree or shrub that would provide a sprawling, airy kind of frame around a 1-1/2 story house with a very small front lawn?

Thanks for advice!

(I don't see how to attach a pic here, if I figure it out I will post one.)

Comments (31)

  • 19 years ago

    hopefully this photo link will work...

    Here is a link that might be useful: picture

  • 19 years ago

    There are many large shrubs that can be limbed up to resemble a small tree. I think that is the approach you should consider. Or there are dwarf trees.

    Whereabouts are you located?

  • 19 years ago

    This is coastal southern Maine, zone 5.

  • 19 years ago

    Go to houston, Texas and you will see trees towering over houses like yours keeping them cool during the summer. I don't see what the big deal is...

  • 19 years ago

    That does sound conflicting. Are you thinking to put one tree in the middle of the bed on the left (currently appears to have shrubs or perennials) and the other inside the grassy area on the right (for balance)? It looks like there are no overhead utilities? Other than the water line, do other utilities run through the front yard?

    Are you hoping to get shade out of these trees or just make the area look more attractive?

    Sometimes you can get some good ideas by asking a "what do you think of this" question on the Landscape Design forum.

  • 19 years ago

    Most or all of the current plantings and turf in the front will be moved or removed anyway, so they are inconsequential.

    Ideally I would like the trunks lining up with the edges of the roofline, or in just a bit from there, and I want the canopy to be tall enough to reach at least a few feet over the front gutter -- something to bridge the dormer to the ground, and soften the corners of the roof. (Clearly, I have watched too much HGTV!) I don't want to block the view of the house.

    There are overhead utilities on both sides of the house, but they come into at angles such that I think a small tree should clear them. There is a gas line directly along the right edge of the house, and there is a water line roughly following where the stepping stones are, curving around the left side of the house. Sewer must be somewhere near the water. I don't know how deep the lines are buried, but relatively deep I'm sure since we're in zone 5.

    I am not necessarily looking for heavy shade. I guess I am more concerned with a proper fit and achieving the look I'm after, and would be happy with whatever shade we could get out of it.

  • 19 years ago

    there are too many trees to list that will do the trick for you, norway maples are just an example of a tree that is definitely not a good fit.

  • 19 years ago

    Washington Hawthorn is not a tree I would plant near a sidewalk. The thorns are long, hard and sharp.

    How about Blue Beech, Carpinus carolina? That is also an airy tree with great fall color and it stays on the smaller side. It's a hardy native and should thrive in Maine.

    Other candidates:

    Magnolia 'Elizabeth' (more tree-like than shrubby, but small)
    Ironwood (Ostyra)
    Redbud tree
    Yellowwood, if your soil isn't too acidic
    One of the smaller, mid-sized Asian maples (Paperbark, Three-leafed)

  • 19 years ago

    I don't think you want branches over the roof. Trees creat shade by their shadows and don't need to hang over the house creating a liability.

    There are a lot of columnar and dwarf or semi-dwarf trees out there. Of the top of my head, one that would work in your area is Apollo Sugar maple. 8'x25' ('Barett Cole')
    google it. There are some white pines that get a similar size and also fat albert semi and iseli columnar blue spruces. Princeton sentry ginkgo etc etc the list goes on . Type into goggle the words either columnar or dwarf then add the name of tree you are interested in and i bet you will find it.

  • 19 years ago

    Carpinus carolina is one of my favorite trees, but the canopy gets very wide, much too wide for your situation. A small, deciduous magnolia might work for the right side (Sweetbay is one of my favorites), and take a look at Heptacodium miconioidies for the left side. It's narrow though multistemmed and spreads out a little at the top. About 20 feet tall, very fast growing, though not a weed tree. It's in bloom now in my garden and the white, fragrant flowers are followed by a very long show of red calyxes. Interesting bark too.

  • 19 years ago

    Laceyvail, I just went to the Kemper Center for Home Gardening web site, to research more about the Heptacodium miconioides. What a nice 20 foot tall, single trunked tree that shrub can be pruned into. A 10 to 15 feet canopy spread on that height of tree seemes very appropriate for smaller yards. Is the fragrance of the flowers, pleasant for most people, who pass by your tree?

    The leaves have a plump or almost waxy green appearance in the photos on that website. Do you know if such leaves can handle single weekly periods or so duration, of lower 100s F. degree heat in the summer; or at other times when summer temps are in the high 80 to 90s, but when the atmosphere of the region contains so much moisture that the heat index values actually feel more like near 100 F. degree or above temps?

    When this shrub is pruned to be a three trunked and clean legged tree/shrub, I wonder how tall it will grow. Also when in that form, if it's canopy will spread farther than 15 feet; that is, as long as it is not over crowded by too close of structures or trees.

  • 19 years ago

    katrina, I'll try to answer some of your questions. Yes, the fragrance of Heptacodium is very nice. I've heard it's sometimes difficult to prune them to one stem, but they stay narrow with several, though I've done some shaping on mine, which came to me last year as a 6 inch plant. This year several stems are close to 8 feet tall. This spring, I put some stakes in and pulled a couple of last year's stems more upright. Next spring I'll trim out some of the smaller stems, limb up the others a little, straighten up two others with stakes, and then I think it'll be on its own.

    As for tolerance of heat, I think it's a very adaptable tree. And since it grows so fast and very small plants are cheap, I'd definately give it a try.

  • 19 years ago

    I think Japanese maples would be lovely, although they'd be more of a 'skirt' than a canopy. But they have beautiful form in the winter, & w/ a somewhat protected location, they should be fine in your location. It's been awhile since I've lived that far north, but your coastal climate should allow you to grow quite a few beautiful small trees...

  • 19 years ago

    There are many options to choose from. Some small trees to consider are: European Mountain Ash, Prariefire Crab Apple, Japanese Tree Lilac, Weeping Cherry, Green Leafed Japanese Maple, globe Norway Maple.

    These all grow in the 20-30ft. tall range.

  • 19 years ago

    Bungalo, perhaps consider a larger-growing tree-maple, oak, ash, elm, etc. I know this sounds contradictory, but bear with me. Smaller-growing ornamental trees crown out closer to the ground than tall-growing shade trees. Hence, in the area where we live, work and play, their entire crown is in the way so to speak. Tall-growing "shade trees" on the other hand, eventually do their thing up above where we live and so, actually take up less space horizontally speaking than their ornamental cousins.

    As far as whether any tree limbs should be above the house, well........I think advice against this is rubbish and if taken to it's ultimate conclusion, would radically change the way our neighborhoods look, for the worse. The biggest enemy of roofs is sunlight. It weakens the bond holding the aggragate material to the rest of the shingle, causing premature aging. So...shade is good for a roof. You just don't want branches laying right on the roof because, yes, you can then incur damage from it never drying out (Moss, etc).

    Anyway, just wanted to offer a different perspective than what I saw others elling you.

    +oM

  • 19 years ago

    I think Tom gives good advice. If you cut and paste this link it gives advice on gardening in small spaces - warning against planting too many small plants creating a "dollhouse effect" -

    http://www.stadlergardencenters.com/journals/journal.php?article=30

  • 19 years ago

    Nobody's mentioned serviceberry, amelenchier. the Thornless cockspur hawthorn, C. crus-galli; Viburnum sieboldii;River birch, Betula nigra;Yellowood, cladastris lutea;Swamp white oak, Q. bicolor;Shingle oak, Q imbricaya are all possibilities, most of whch I grow.

  • 19 years ago

    Personally, I think huge forest trees look totally riduculous on small city lots, towering over small homes.
    Eventually they heave up sidewalks, driveways, infest water lines and grow babies in your gutters. The roots heave out of the lawn and stick up like knobby knees. You should listen to the experts and not the emotional replies you hear on the forums.

    I second the vote for taller varities of Amelanchier (aka, Serviceberry), and River Birch, Redbud and tree Lilac. I grow them in z5 and all are free of bugs and diseases. I have one tall tree in my very small front yard, and it is a skyline locust, across the drive on a small strip between neighbor and me. Its so light and airy, and I never have to rake the tiny leaves. It casts such interesting shade from sun and streetlight too.
    Pondy

  • 19 years ago

    Wow, Laceyvail; even with the cold winters of zone 5b. your Hepdacodium grew from 6 inches up to 8 feet tall in only 20 months or so?

    Since the trunks you are staking have grown so fast, they must still be pretty thin.

    Thanks for the further details, concerning how you handle your Hepdacodium tree. Wonder how long the tree will keep sending up new suckers.

  • 19 years ago

    katrina, I think it's done with suckering. The biggest stem is about an inch in diameter and already shows the interesting bark Heptacodium is noted for. Of the existing stems, I will probably keep four, though I'll make that decision next spring.

  • 19 years ago

    laceyvail - I had no idea Heptacodium sent up suckers. Mine never has. I wonder if there is some genetic variation between yours & mine? When I got mine, as a little potted twig, it was single trunked & has remained that way.

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks to all who responded. After much thought (too much, maybe) I tend to agree with Tom about planting something tall enough so that the living space (porch and lawn) is not smothered in leaves. On the other hand, I really don't want them to be any taller than necessary. That leads me to the question of proportion on a limbed-up tree. Is a 30-foot tree tall enough to limb up about 8-10 feet? Perhaps the answer depends on the overall shape of the tree? I want them to be tall enough that they don't look Dr. Seuss-like when limbed up clear of the porch!

  • 19 years ago

    Looking at just the picture of your house, I agree that a taller tree would make the house feel really nice. I have heard a rule of thumb to leave the top 2/3 of the tree for the crown; so this means your idea would probably work. This is dependant on the type of tree however. For instance, river birches generally have their crown a little lower to the ground. I think you are on the right track, just do it.

  • 19 years ago

    What I have learned about planting a tree:

    There is ALWAYS a reason not to plant a tree. Most of them are poor ones. Most of them come from people with an agenda. Yet by all means, never trust anyone from a nursery. They are money grubbing ignorami who are never hired for actually knowing anything.

    Yet there is only one reason to plant a tree that means anything: Do you want to? For any reason? (fall color, flowers, screening, wind, shade, innate beauty, etc.).

    Walk down practically any street in practically any city in practically any country, and I'll place odds you can find something wrong with just about every tree you see. Just peruse the explanations cited above: It's planted too close, utility lines of one kind or another, too large, wrong kind of tree for whatever reason, most of them personal and highly subjective.

    Yet lost in all the clutter are some of the best reasons, and they are reasons to plant a tree. A sociologist at the U of Illinois has conducted some research that says a view of a tree, even a pitiful tree, leads one to a happier outlook on life and a greater likelihood of civility to neighbors. So, to draw the insane conclusions that people seems to love, plant a tree, save a life. Surely that's not too high to save a life?

    Also, it's estimated that a healthy urban forest can reduce the temperatures of cities by up to 20 degrees. Given the number of headlines regarding global warming (including how elk contribute to it), that would darn near be enough to scare me into planting far more trees than needed.

    OK, enough of the hyperbole.

    There is one practical rule to follow when planting near a house: Don't plant a tree that will grow taller than the eave under the eave. Everything else can be influenced...or pruned.

  • 19 years ago

    Great post, heptacodium! That's one to save.

    Speaking of hepts, I would not recommend this particular tree for this spot, because as Dirr says, the jury is out on the prevalence of potentially fatal canker problems. I just planted a couple in my "lower 40" (a tiny woodsy area on my 1/3 acre town yard) in a spot where it will not be a major tragedy if they disappear.

  • 19 years ago

    Yes Bungalow, a tree that is thirty feet tall may be "raised up" eight or ten feet. Usually it is best to accomplish this gradually, a rung or two of branches at a time. Make nice neat pruning cuts and do not allow the weight of the branch you are removing to cause a bark tear down the trunk. Remove most of the branch first, and then make the final cut just removing the stub.

    +oM

  • 19 years ago

    Watched an interesting show on HGTV the other night where a Liquidamber street tree had spread its roots into a homeowners yard, pool, patio and home. Ruined everything.
    Many, many huge trees are capable of doing the same. What you see (the tree) is just the tip of a huge iceburg (the roots) Please be a responsible tree planter! Pondy

  • 19 years ago

    That program sounds like a bit of uninformed, sensationalist B.S. The tree just ruined everything, did it? Oh, those nasty nasty trees.

    +oM

  • 19 years ago

    We planted two Robin Hill serviceberries (25h x 12w) yesterday -- they are beautiful. Thanks to all for advice!

  • 19 years ago

    And thanks for the follow-up! I hope they turn out beautifully.