No. Really? But your garden photos always look so amazing. Of course we have yet to be taken over by JB's here in CA so I can't speak to that issue. I'm sure it is really exasperating.

I don't think anyone would ask you to continue working on something that's not gratifying anymore. I hope things get better and your frustration level goes down before you do anything that you might hate yourself for later:(

Kate

Harry, I'm not sure that July is such a good time to make a decision. You are so discouraged now. How did you feel in the spring? I just don't want you to be too hasty.

Harry, you can try barerooting the plants, then you don't have to worry about the midge in the soil.

Good luck.

Hi Harry-----
I couldn't believe it but this year I have only had about 3 JB's--------
Of course the summer isn't over yet.---

-Don't give up---maybe next year will be better.
I don't really know about the "midge" problem-----I guess they haven't found me yet either. I'm not sure what they look like.

Do you have any roses without these two problems ? If you do, just stick with them.

Perhaps you should try the once-bloomers that are finished before the infestations start.
Florence

Harry, besides winter, now is probably a down phase in your garden. I've been told that during this time of the year that some growers cut-back their roses for the fall grand finalie. This could be an option for you and get you through your frustration. Good Luck!

I don't know about y'all in the Midwest and East, but July is a BAD time for my garden.
I wouldn't make decisions in this evil season.

Jeri

Ditto Jeri. Plus it's too humid here in PA to make a rational decision.

Harry I never say this, but your gardens are perfect. Try not to give up. You'll be happy again in the fall, I promise!

Not 'Tamora'!

I am glad I have a small garden because if I had lots of problems it would be very discouraging if the majority of the roses were not doing well. On the other hand everyone has some kind of garden pest or disease to some extent. My vote is don't give up - every year is different.

Harry, I am so sad to hear this. It will be cooler soon. Are you still driving upmpteen miles every day in your commute? Take care of yourself.

Harry, I hear your frustration and discouragement. I can't help wondering, however, if you expect too much of yourself. Gardens don't have to be perfect, and you don't have to be the perfect gardener.

That said, I think you should consider Kentucky Rose's suggestion--since the JBs make mid-summer gardening so impossible, just cut them all back--write off the mid-summer garden--don't expect anything from it. Concentrate on your spring and fall gardens and enjoy them--the weather certainly in more enjoyable in the spring and fall also, isn't it!

Cutting back on the number of roses probably is a good idea also since you are feeling burdened by them, but I hope you retain at least some of your beauties (like Tamora)--I think you would really miss them if you got rid of all your roses. If a handful of your very best roses makes you happier, then I vote for a handful. That's exactly what you should have. Remember, the first duty of any garden is to please the gardener.

Good luck,

Kate

Ackk-i thought this was going to be about deciding which roses to order for next year! I'm sorry to hear your garden has momentarily lost its charm for you.

Well-it's been said-only madmen make decisons in July. And once bloomers are lovely. Perhaps what you need is some good old fashioned enabling-er-advice-in this area.

I didn't say I was quitting gardening. Or quitting roses. Its about reducing the number of roses to a manageable level.
I'm down to about 50 roses again and think that maybe 25 is the goal.

Some of my roses are actually quite productive this time of year. I cut a nice vase full for DW on Sunday with Tamora, Folklore and others. You just have to find opening buds before the beetles find them.

I need to temper my lack of enthusiasm with the age thing. It's getting hard to work in these 90+ degree humid days. The good news is since I just turned 60, I get to retire in a few years. There will be a lot more time for the garden. I don't want to tear it all down and then wish I had it back.

Talk about frustrated. We watched the radar all night long while big red blotches swarmed all around us but we never got a drop of rain. It's never going to rain again. I may not get a chance to SP any roses.

Harry, I see a lot of people here giving advice that don't have to deal with MIDGE! It is a deflater, for sure. I made the same decision you've come to over winter. Life is too short to fret about anything, let alone ROSES!

And, Diane, I've thought about your idea of bare rooting them as gifts. Not too difficult if the roses are own root. But digging up multiflora roots and bare rooting roses buried 3 inches below the bud union is one hel* of a job. I've tried; I've done it. Ugg! And, I'm not sure I would recognize a midge larvae if I was served one on a platter.

Harry, if it is any consolation to you, I'm losing upwards of 20 roses SO FAR. That's how may are about bare sticks from BS pressures. And last evening I snipped a bag full of midged ends from the roses and didn't finish because my clothes were wet from perspiration.

Yes, July is a good time to make decisions about roses and other plants. This is where you spot the trouble makers. I say more power to you. But wait until it cools off to bring out the shovel. It is just too hot to do anything!

Good luck.
Barbara, just down the road a piece.

Harry, I do understand. July is when I make my "hit" list. If I dealt with midge, I have no idea what I would do, but just dealing with BS, JB's, PM in the spring, and various and sundry fungal diseases in the fall is overwhelming at times. For the past two years I have been removing the worst trouble makers, the ones who defoliate even "with" spray, the chronic powdery mildew magnets in the spring, and the ones who have had years to show what they can do and still do not please me. I don't plan to remove all my roses, but I do plan to downsize, only have roses that I love and that like my climate (with maybe one or two diva's :-). I've found it too hard to make the right decisions about who stays and goes in spring when they are all blooming and the no goods still have foliage to go with their blooms...

I have discovered that I am a wimp though, I can't seem to take out more than a few at a time. :-)

Carol

Harry, I've cut back too. Here the problem is thrips. I just don't feel that the expense of the products to kill them and the toxicity to my health are worth it. I am now down to 43 from 57. I actually like the way it looks better, not so crowded. Of course I keep being tempted to buy more but at least I am looking at more carefree varieties, like the polyanthas and the hybrid musks. Rose growing can get discouraging.
Nancy

Harry, I often think about how much easier a smaller garden would be, and like the idea of removing those that don't grow well for me. Next year will be year 3 for a batch of my plants, and if they don't start shaping up, they will ship out.

In fact, I just sent email to our rose society about some roses that I want out of the pot ghetto (give-aways).

Simplifying is a good thing, and can understand completely why you'd like to do it. That said, I have a bunch of rose starts in the cold frame (slaps self).

I hear you. The JBs are so discouraging this time of year. Thank goodness I don't have midge. I always think I should cut off every bloom at this time of year, but never do, and even if I did, they go for just the leaves. It's hard to remember that they will eventually die and I'll have nice looking leaves again, but right now.... I also hear you on the age thing. I'm 54 and definitely slowing down. I would like to retire and garden more, and maybe keep up with it. Or maybe work more part-time. Bleech.

You know, when I read your first post I totally agreed with jeri...July is a very hard time of year for southern gardeners, and snap decisions should NOT be made at the time, nor in "the heat of the moment," (maybe a pun intended just a LITTLE.)

At this point in the thread, though, I sort of have to agree with bbinpa. July IS one of the worst months of the year. And if you have too many roses to properly care for in the intense heat then you are doing the right thing by reducing your rose workload. It's one thing to be happy and frolicking in the sweet weather of Spring and Fall...but if you can't do the work during the worst months, you aren't doing yourself or your roses any favors.

Traditionally, July is the bad time, well except for gingers and dahlias. If we lived in England maybe we would grow roses that could actually perform the way they're meant to. You are dealing with various issues working against your roses.
Knock on wood the drought seems to thwart the huge JB population and if your area is humid they are hanging around.
You have to do what makes you happy but your garden is lovely and I can tell you enjoy it, at times.

Carla

Another thing staring me in the face is the perennials which look great in mid summer. They are just about care free. I might dead head a few to get another flush, but otherwise, I do little more than just watch them.

Me too!! I find myself adding more perennials every year. The decreased number of roses in the ground combined with the addition of more perennials is pleasing to my eye and the direction I have been going with my garden for a couple of years now. I've always had a mix but it was too heavy on the roses and not balanced by the number of perennials. I still have a long way to go to get it to a more manageable size with the right combinations. Your garden was already a really nice blend of the two and very beautiful. I know that you will have a lovely garden no matter what decisions you make and after all, it only has to please you :-)

Carol

Carol and Harry,

Funny, I've been spending my hot mid-day weekends with my book "The Well-Tended Perennial Garden" and the Bluestone Catalogue.

Great minds?

Barbara

What I'm sad about is that you're having to contend with midge.

What are you going to replace your roses with? I really like the spireas, Anthony Waterer blooms all summer; all I do is cut off the ends and it reblooms.

I've really liked seeing pictures of your garden and know you'll figure out a way to make your garden beautiful and work for you. But I agree, July is the month I figure out what I don't like and what needs to be moved or sp'd.

That's how I know Duchesse de Brabant is a tough cookie; I moved her last August after cutting her back to nothing and she just keeps growing.

Best wishes, Gean

I know you will make the right choices. I hate to see you discouraged when I know you have a great sense of humor and wit. Maybe just have some time at twilight and *beer in hand* think about what you really want to do. Can't you just cover the shrubs in june-july with a fine net screen that is weighted by soil at the bottom? Wouldn't help with the midge maybe, but possibly could spare the leaves until the JBs are gone for the year. Then you'd have a bush left to make flowers later in the year. There has to be a way to do it. Does anyone grow roses in a greenhouse where you are or is it too hot for that? I don't think you're getting too old...I think it's the @! Bugs! It would make anyone upset. I'm glad to hear about your perennials doing nicely for you. I'm trying to diversify as well.

Harry, I have only been growing roses a couple of years but maybe someone out there will come out with an organic (or less destructive) way to rid us of JBs. Wouldn't that make life so much easier? We put a man on the moon so long ago....

Late blooming, no-care perennials are the trick. They are lush and green in spring and early summer, then give a long display in July and August. Black-eyed Susan, daylily, lily. aster, phlox.

Add some clematis and shrubs which maintain nice foliage all season.

Gean, I do have 3 Anthony Waterer spireas. AW is a great no-care shrub.

Peace and SDLM share a bed with clematis, lilies and other perennials.
{{gwi:308738}}

I echo bbinpa's recommendation of "The well tended perennial garden." Great book; it has taught me how to take care of my perennials.

Harry I just love the advice and photos that you post of your garden and from your experience. I am very sad that you face problems that make rose gardening feel like such a chore instead of a pleasure. I do understand your pain even though I personally don't have very many rose problems to deal with.
I have a few thrips in the spring and a few cucumber beetles in the summer and fall and that is about it. I do spray for fungals and insects when necessary. I never have any real fungal issues at all so long as I keep up with the spray routine. As for insects, I only have the two small issues with the thrips and cucumber beetles. I have had one bad experience with spider mites that I caused myself a couple of years ago by overdoing the insect spray and that seemed to kill off whatever was keeping the spider mites at bay. I learned my lesson about just putting up with the little bugs a bit more and since then have had no spider mite issues either. I just live and learn I guess.
Bestof luck and I hope you continue to grow at least a few roses to share photo's of with the rest of us. I also hope you hang around to share your wisdom and experience that I have found so invaluable many times on the different forums as well.
John