I stumbled upon the Winter Sowing forum here on GW in late 2009. That year I WS 500+ milk jugs. I filled ALL my garden beds with perennials in the next two years and no longer needed plants thus I stopped. I WS more than a hundred perennials, ornamental dogwood and fruit trees and shrubs--the list is too long to post here.

Not all plants produce seeds that are viable. Some seeds require specific conditions in order to germinate. The link below will take you to the Tom Clothier database.

I've purchased as well as traded for seeds and also harvested seeds from my own plants. Swallowtail Garden Seeds is a reliable seed source.

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Germination database

After much failure in sowing seeds indoors, I followed the Winter Sowing method to sow seeds with much success. I have filled my garden with perennials and annuals.

Now I only Winter Sow annuals to fill the gaps since I have no more room for perennials.

I harvest seeds from my own garden and purchase seeds online, depending on my needs and availabilty. I also still have leftover seeds from trades.

My favorite containers for winter sowing are upside down cake containers (the cake cover is very deep), deep bulk salad containers, 2 liter pop bottles and those plant trays where 3 inch potted plants come in.

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Thanks for the link, Gardenweed-I'll take a look.
Great photos pitimpinai. I love the idea of the cake containers. I'll have to see if I can collect a few.
I collect annual & bi-annual seeds every year from my garden, but in recent years I have been starting them inside along with my veggies. But my indoor space is pretty maxed out, so I'll need to move outside if I'm to start any more than I already do. Since this is a great time to gather seeds, it's been on my mind as I'm trying to plan ahead.

I and many of the other posters here have had great success using the winter sowing method of sowing seeds in recycled containers. My preferred containers are 2L bottles because they seem to last forever.

There is a forum for winter sowing. While not as active in the past there are great postings to be found using the search function. Also good information in the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).

Good luck and welcome to the fun.

Here is a link that might be useful: Winter sowing forum

There is literally not one month in the year when I am not sowing....something. Right now, this is my busiest seed sowing time (although March comes close) as I sow practically every perennial between September and October. This year, after a long and warm run-up into autumn, I started the bulk of my seed sowing on 1st October. I use square 1 litre pots with a loamy mix (John Innes 1 is the UK formula), mixed with a drainage medium such as grit, sand, perlite....whatever comes to hand, and either sieved compost or leafmould (again, whatever I have in plenty) to help with water retention while keeping the loam mix more open and friable. The value of using milk jugs is relative, I feel, to the soil depth. I used to use seed trays but had real problems keeping even moisture without adding covers...and all the problems which that entailed, but maintaining around 4 -5 inches of soil depth has been helpful, plus I can fit many different 4inch square pots in a smaller space - almost 100 per square metre.
Anyway, I work through my seeds in a vaguely rational order. Vegetables are being sown from January onwards, tender annuals/perennials such as zinnias as late as may, biennials over the summer....and so it goes on......so winter sowing is really just relating to seeds which require vernalisation. Whatever, Sowing seeds is an absolute necessity now I have acreage to fill....when I had tiny gardens, I would ocassionally enjoy the immediate gratification of buying a longed-for plant...and will probably continue to do so.....but only with an eye to further propagation. I also find seeds are easier than cuttings (I suspect I am too much of a poker/puller/meddler) while division is the easiest of all....but also yields the least number of extra (free) plants....although I am going to cut with a very sharp spade this year as I want lots of divisions too.

I generally run into huge logistics problems since I fill all available space with seed pots.....without ever fully considering the massive expansion of required space once seedlings need pricking out and potting on......and I often feel harrassed and anxious for a couple of months till I can get things into the ground....but next year, I have made nursery beds where I will plant the tiny seedlings, in rows like vegetables, until they can be transplanted into their final position. Working on the principle that the larger the pot, the less management regarding watering and feeding is required, I plan to get mine into the ground....which is the largest pot of all, as soon as they have their first couple of true leaves.

I also would like to keep some sort of record of success and fails and proportions of germination.....as I swing between delight and despair with no real data to make informed decisions other than my unreliable emotional (delusional) feelings.

I have been a gardener for more years than I care to count but have never had the space to grow plants from seeds indoors. I have recently found and read articles about winter sewing and would like to try. I would like to try some hardy phlox, it gets well below freezing here way west of Chicago and we usually have a considerable amount of snow. I guess I am looking for a good seed source and any hints from the experienced gardeners here. I have been "lurking" on this forum and have enjoyed reading the posts.

Sherry

Sherry,
Welcome to a fun fill winter. How far are you from Chicago? What seeds are you looking for other than Phlox? Watch for bakemom's post the Winter Sowing forum. She has been offering newbie seed packs for more years than I can remember.

I have plenty of seeds but they are not newly collected this year other than some bush beans and pole beans.

If you are not that far from Chicago, watch for a plant swap. A Winter Sowing member organizes it in Evanston or Skokie every Friday before Memorial Day weekend. It will be announced on the Winter Sowing forum. It is a lot of fun and you can get so many plants you won't know what to do with them.

Sherry, I don't know how far west of Chicago you are, but, as I mentioned earlier, the CBG will likely do another seed swap this year, in February. You don't need to bring seeds to attend. Last year they had a whole conference room for just veggies and herbs, and another whole conference room for just perennials and annuals. Great source for lots of different seeds at no charge.

Pitimpanai, are you in the city? I am in Palatine, NW of the city.

(PS-I didn't realize there was a winter sowing forum....I'm going to go find it and take a look!)

Kirimarie, I am south of Aurora. Me getting to the Chicago Botanic Garden is a real trek from out here. The traffic And major, multiple road constructions have about done me in this year. Just thought I would like to try some phlox seeds this winter and see how that works out. Didnt know about seed exchanges on the forum. Did a little browsing for seeds and didnt find anything that made me want to order.

Sherry

Wow. I just spent all morning reading the winter sowing forum. As a fellow northern Illinoisian, I am thrilled at the thought of still doing something gardeny in winter (which tends to feel like 2/3 of the year here!). Not to mention how cheaply it can be done!

I have a question which may be better asked in that forum, but I'll give it a shot here. I had quite a few plants delivered this year and they were all in the typical black plastic nursery pots. I have numerous flats that ground covers came in which consist of individual square pots probably 4" deep that sit together on trays. Can I use these for winter sowing?

I also have quart and gallon pots that I can use if those are too small. In reading the FAQ, it said the pots are to be transparent or semi transparent. Is this the case? If so, it sounds like I won't be able to reuse these pots for this purpose...

GreenHearted,

You need at least 3" of potting soil and enough headroom under the covering for the seedlings, so a 4" pot will not be good for Winter Sowing unless you place the pots in a clear plastic container such as a sweater storage bin.

A gallon pot may work provided that you cover it with clear plastic. I have not tried this myself.

The idea is to reuse existing containers without spending money.
Why don't you post your idea on the Winter Sowing forum and see what others who have experience with pots have to say.

In the mean time, start collecting milk jugs, salad trays, cake containers, pastry containers, 2L plastic bottles, etc.

Thanks for your response, pitimpinai. Come to think of it, I have a few big clear storage containers for collecting weeds in areas that I can't pull my wagon into.

I will take your suggestion and also post on the winter sowing forum. Thanks again.

Obviously, my climate is different but I have my best results from leaving my pots exposed to the air and weather, with a topdressing of grit to prevent mosses and liverworts growing. I tried using milkjugs but hated not being able to see into them very easily and I was constantly anxious that they were drying out, staying too wet, going mouldy, lacking sufficient ventilation and so forth.....and after a very so-so year, I quickly went back to using 4 - 5inch nursery pots (liners) which could easily be covered with a piece of glass (for those which required a dry soil).....
For the longest time, I didn't really get that the majority of seed sowing in the US was done inside using lights ....even hardy perennials, trees and shrubs and was baffled by the 'innovative winter sowing' which I thought was some radical new system.....but is more or less how it is always done in the UK apart from tender annuals (which are often sown using heat and lights). The main difference is the covering or even fully sealing the planting containers....but I confess to still being a bit vague as to whether the idea is to have a kind of sealed unit like a little biosphere......or whether air and water can naturally penetrate the system....in which case dealing with drying out and subsequent watering was trickier in milkjugs. I really ought to set up a trial of methods.

GreenHearted - another source of information is the wintersown.org website (see link below).

As pitimpinai mentioned, the idea is to repurpose what would otherwise be tossed into landfills. Milk jugs tend to be popular because they (a) hold enough growers mix to allow for root growth; (b) have a handle making them easy to pick up when you're eyeballing them hoping to see sprouts; (c) tend not to blow around in high wind; (d) allow for top growth; and (e) can be anchored by running a pole through the handles of several so their combined bulk is better able to withstand strong winds.

The idea is to provide a protected environment for the seeds that allows warm air to escape (through the open top) while allowing sufficient water (snow, rain) in to maintain the soil moisture inside the container.

The generous soil depth is necessary because in my experience WS plants have extraordinary root systems. I've had tiny sprouts with root systems easily 5 times the size of top growth.

My own winter sown perennials are vastly hardier and healthier than other seed-grown (and some nursery-grown) plants. My WS Siberian iris are all easily a foot taller than nursery-grown specimens as are my WS hardy hibiscus, balloon flower, beardtongue, wandflower & cardinal flower.

Here is a link that might be useful: Winter Sowing website

I've never really understood much of the concept, of having to wait to sow seeds outdoors, until during winter time.
As near as I could figure, it was partly due to printed seed catalogues being sent out, about that same time frame.
Then, there was an issue for some lacking space, or adequate sunlight, to do so indoors.
Another, was recycling the plastics, to repurpose them & save some money, instead of buying seed trays.

Personally, I prefer to sow in trays during both autumn & spring. With stratification taking place, for those seeds that need it, accomplished, using the 'baggy method' in the refrigerator, if done in summer, to take care of the chilling requirement. Then, they could be pricked off the coffee filter & transplanted as they germinated, to be grown on in trays, during fall.
Otherwise, I simply considered it an actual delay in progress, from sowing until germination. Unless of course, it was a very severe winter, as was the case in winter of 2013/14 & some seedlings froze to death & some plants even heaved, to their demise ..

Sherry, usually I would have a small supply of Phlox paniculata seeds, collected from my own plants on hand, to spare. This year, I hadn't really noticed any at all. When they do set seeds, little round small green seed capsules appears & turn beige. At this ripe stage, they usually suddenly snap open & the one or two seeds contained within , are finally scattered.
As I recall, they took up to about 30 days to sprout (sown indoors, with germination timed to coincide approximately with that of last expected frost) & had been purchased from Plantation Products, many years ago. Most likely, when seed racks typically appeared as usual, in January. Not even sure where they are available from anymore, these days...

gringo,

Sowing seeds in winter instead of waiting until spring or summer advances the gardening season by several months rather than delaying it until spring or summer.

Using recycled containers saves money and reuses whatever is available.

Setting them outdoors in winter saves money on grow light & electricity and keeps the house tidy.

Setting them outdoors in winter also takes care of stratification if the seeds need it. Therefore, they do not need to be placed in the refrigerator.

Seeds germinate when the weather is right and since they are already outdoors, there is no need to harden them.

There is no problem with dampening.

There is no need to prick tiny seedlings and repot them in a larger container. We just plant the seedlings directly wherever the grdener wants, be it in the garden or a container.

The best part of all is that we get to garden in winter instead of moping around wishing for spring in order to start your gardening again.

Why don't you check it out? You will be pleasantly surprised.

Hi pitimpinai. I have checked out 'winter sowing' & can recall as far back, so many years ago in fact, to a time before that forum was even created. I've even posted there, as I enjoy growing from seeds...
It is simply that in some past winters where I live, I've actually grown lettuce outside, throughout the entire winter season!
Otherwise, it is usually quite a bit different, than Chicago, with the exception of last winter. I don't think a milk jug or soda bottle could have possibly helped protect some Digitalis seedlings survive from freezing solid, melting & freezing solid, over & over, or Penstemon heaving numerous times & freezing to death, also.

But, for me it actually can be quite a delay in getting started, as far as I'm concerned, for my location. Yes, I can stratify seeds out of doors, through winter, without the use of a refrigerator. I simply call that, sowing in situ & frequently do that, with hardy annuals too, in autumn. They grow much better this way & grow faster, attaining a much larger size..

In typical years, I sow in autumn, so the plants vernalize & then simply flower on schedule, usually before it gets too hot..

For others, it may work quite well, so I wouldn't want to discourage anyone else from trying it.
Being where I am, it's rather different & that method would probably just not work as well here , as it does for you & others. Growing from seeds outside down here, is somewhat different than up north &/or in (more reliably , consistently colder) lower numbered zones..

So, have you got started Gringo? I have just got going myself (round about 75 pots sown so far) and expect to sow another 400 before October is out (although I usually do around 200). I figured I needed to sow around 20,000 plants over the next few years to fill my space....so am going for about 5,000 a year.....which sounds a lot....but isn't.

Yep, we just call it 'sowing'.

Well, I'll speak up on why I'm considering doing winter sowing again after all these years. I live outside of Chicago. Last year, my son missed what amounted to a week of school between January and February. The reason he missed those days was that school was cancelled. School was cancelled due to wind chills of -45F (which is -42C, also known as "too dang cold to be outside") We are expecting similar temps this winter, sad to say. Seeds planted in the ground may survive because the ambient temps in the soil, under all that snow, will help keep them in a cold but stable environment. However, in a small pot in just a few inches of soil, the viability of those seeds may be threatened. Even in March and April, we frequently have snow and hard frosts, which is why many people, including myself, regularly start seeds indoors. So the answer of why winter sowing is "a thing" here has a lot to do with climate.

As I mentioned, I am planting a new bed this year. I suppose I could plant the seeds right in the ground, but I'd prefer to start them and then transplant them so I can have better control over what is growing where, and so that I can prevent the many squirrels and chipmunks from making off with the seeds. Thus, I'm looking at winter sowing again this year.

I did the winter sow method several years ago with great success. I am going to do it again this year to re-establish my new lawn with flowers. When I did do it I used all kinds of containers, 2 liter bottles. milk cartons, aluminum pans, styrofoam cups, deli and take out containers. With my goal the first year being 25 containers I love what I was doing so much it reached well into the hundreds. So many seedlings I was planting out until July. It was so enjoyable and produced so many beautiful plants. I strongly suggest it. Also, there is a Facebook Winter Sow group too.

A lot of it is just climate differences. Indoor sowing is too much work and space with lights, watering, and hardening off. You also have to get your timing just right so things are at the right stage to plant out when weather permits. In ground sowing over the winter will sacrifice a lot of seeds and what does come up will surely be mixed with weeds. What works well in England and US coastal areas with mild climates would not work for me. A greenhouse would be way work that it is worth. With the wintersowing technique most years it is just a "sow it and forget it" type thing here. Usually we get enough precipitation so I don't have to water at all until well into spring. The seeds USUALLY germinate at just the right time so I don't have to protect them from freezing and they are already hardened off when it comes time to plant them. I can leisurely take my time sowing all winter long into spring... just starting with those seeds needing the most cold stratification first, and ending with the tender annuals. I don't have to keep track of how many weeks ahead of time to sow things, or how many weeks they stay in the fridge before I inevitably forget about them. It is just easier for me. It allows me to easily start 50-200 containers rather than tending to and babying just a couple of flats.

I'm definitely doing it again after my first time last winter. One thing I will do differently is that I will send extra seedlings -- ones that I can't plant in spring or swap/give away -- to the compost pile immediately. This last year I expended a lot of effort maintaining and repotting extra seedlings for no particular reason.

Milk jugs worked well for me size-wise, but it was a hassle opening and closing/taping tops once we started to get periods of warm weather alternating with freezes. I like pitimpinai's photo with the single cover over many pots.

One of my big successes this year was Asclepias tuberosa. My 9 wintersown seedlings, transplanted after second true leaf, all survived and flowered this season, while three that I bought as larger nursery seedlings died.

Thanks for the winter sowing website link, gardenweed.

I do have the 4" square pots with the trays that I could probably use and make some kind of hoops to support plastic like pitimpinai did. I do wonder if it will hold up ok with heavy snow?

Yikes, kirimarie, are we really in for another winter like last year's?

Here's what I did when I got home from work last night :) I still have hostas and calamint to harvest once they're ready

I use 4" pots for annuals which are started in March and April. After sowing they are placed in a large plastic box with drilled holes in the top and bottom for drainage and air/moisture needs. Have another plastic box without a lid that is placed inside a large plastic bag with holes. The bag is larger than the box so I tuck the ends under to keep it in place. Also use smaller plastic boxes for some small pots or flats as the smaller boxes are easier for me to move about. Flats are used in the same way.

Have also ws in those long plastic deck planters with old wire coat hangers to hold plastic bag up and clothes pins clipped on the planters to hold the bag in place.

kirimarie, the weather is a rather unpredictable problem, in many different zones.. As far as sources, I've used Ebay, to import (T & M, Suttons, etc..) & also to obtain American home grown seeds ( or possibly even, were purchased in bulk & repackaged.)
As for sources for western natives, I have purchased from Alplains.
An old U.S. source, is Landreth. I even think Jefferson's historic home, Monticello, may still offer some seeds online.
In better economic times, I've ordered from Jelitto & Chiltern (U.K.) but as times changed, so has the exchange rate & of course, increased postal costs...
Among numerous U.S. sources I have purchased from, include; Park, Burpee, Stokes, Jung, Territorial, Pine Tree, Renee's, 2bseeds.com, Sunshine, Rohrer, Select Seeds Antique, Diane's, Bavicchi (Italian,) Aimers, Lake Valley, Ed Hume, Summerhill, Botanical Interests , & Lily Miller among others.
Then, off the seed racks, Plantation, which may have taken over Northrup King & American. Weeks, Seeds of Change & Seed Savers Exchange, along with repeat of some of the previously listed.
campanula, I tend to agree with you & simply call it , "sowing seeds'! I've currently had some success with Thompson & Morgans 'Plum Pudding' P. orientale & if it acts anything like 'Coral Reef' did, then hopefully will see flowers in about 9 months. I'm trying some Historic Pansies & soaking my Mammoth Sweet Peas just now. Waiting on some Scabiosa caucasica 'Deep Waters' & may place an order from Park, shortly...
Good luck to all in your seed sowing, & hopefully this coming winter won't be anything nearly severe as the last one, helping to ensure your success, no matter how or when you sow your seeds.
btw my 72 cell seed trays, with clear lids, were only 22 cents each, while on sale. I easily spend more on postage for just one seed order, than the total spent, on all those trays I bought. They really do make transplanting so much easier, for me....

I am overjoyed to hear that seed sowing may be going through a revival....so heres to all of us ardent seed growers......... I can empathise with those freezy weather growers (being a total wimp even in zone 8)....and ultimately, what does it matter what we call it or what method we use....as long as we are doing it.

Finger's crossed for successful germination, total lack of damping off, fat healthy plants and even having too many of them.

"Finger's crossed for successful germination, total lack of damping off, fat healthy plants and even having too many of them."

Amen, campanula! :-)

"Finger's crossed for successful germination, total lack of damping off, fat healthy plants and even having too many of them."

Yep, I agree! Thanks, everyone, for a great discussion!