Dig the compost into the soil retains more nutrients than allowing it to decompose on the surface. It is not necessary to double dig. I can only see value in bringing up soil from lower depths if the garden has been in place for a long time and there are nutrients that have been leached into the lower levels.

The crusting that happens after rain or watering can be ameliorated with the addition of gypsum. A light dusting on the surface is all that's needed. I also find that a layer of compost on the surface will not crust as much as my clayey soil.

Double digging is only needed if the soil is awful or if a "cap" or crust has formed on the subsoil not letting nutrients and water penetrate it.

Personally, I would till it in, but others around here will tell you differently.

brandond,
Some questions before offering an opinion:
1) What kind of (base) soil is under the 'topsoil' you put down? Has that soil been tested for pH and plant nutritional values?
2) Was the base fertilized previously? If so, with what and how much over what period of time? Topsoil fertilized?
3) Did your clayey loam supplier provide you with a soil report, or did you have the topsoil tested before putting it down? Do you know what the pH and nutrient values of the topsoil are?
4) Did the topsoil get tilled into the existing soil after it was put down - or is it just laying on top of base?
5) Have you previously amended either base soil, or the (clayey loam) topsoil with finished compost, or will this be the initial time that compost has been added to the topsoil?
4) Has mycorrhizal incocculation been performed in any?
(do you know whether the 4 major strains of mycorrhizal fungi exist in your base soil, or the added topsoil, or has your finished (never add mycorrhizal to material that will heat) compost been inocculated? Mycorrhizal is the difference between an OK harvest and a 'bumper' harvest.
5) Does the base soil or the topsoil have a noticable population of earthworms (tilling kills slow-moving earthworms - although one cut in half can sometimes grown another half, but it doesn't eat/move much while healing).
6) Have you had any finished compost batch soil-tested for pH, plant nutrients or conductivity (salt)?

I don't know what your compost materials were, or C:N, or maximum sustained pile heat, but aside from not being able to tell anything about quality of your compost, from my experience, most backyard compost that I test is 'salty' (usually above 3,000 umho/cm - which is very high and can be harmful). Learn salt-damage symptoms in different veggies - an oft-overlooked issue when checking issues with less-than expected harvests.
In soil, salt content is a root-uptake issue that should be investigated with ANY plant wilting in moist conditions, especially after incorporating a LOT of compost in one season - amendment or dressing. The most common leaf symptom is browning/drying of outside edges, but that's not always the primary indicator.

If you use the compost before you find out what the salt level is, I definitely recommend following cowgirl2's suggestion to add agricultural (powdered - not granular) gypsum to mediate salts (no, not talking about table salt or sea salt, but rather mineral fertilizer salts).
For instance, ammonium-based fertilizers contain about 3% salts per pound and some urea-based can contain as much as 7%) - so too little gypsum is lots worse than too much, if it's really needed (I use powdered gypsum when building new piles to pre-mediate the salt issue). It really can be a 'big deal', and unless you know - you're purely guessing on how much gypsum to add.
Recommend you research the crusting issue. There's a lot of reasons why a soil will crust - some need attention.

From your initial post, it seems that the added topsoil layer has already been tilled 2+ times, has produced one or more veggie crops (but you didn't say anything about PROVING the topsoil - by providing info about the veggie plants and harvest). Any issues versus expectations? Were harvests abundant, tasty and 'pretty'? Plants don't lie.
Get/start some inexpensive (but healty and not too old) veggie seedlings, plant them in pots, in your pure (finished) compost and find out what they tell you.
Never germinate seeds in compost, since new germinations have immature immune systems and cannot survive a fungus attack without systemic damage or death. Use a 'sterile' seed mix if you raise seeds (especially indoors at this time of year).
Also, soils can (over time) become nutritionally depleted, and soil problems can build up...remember to rotate plantings when possible, and know what symptoms to watch for as indicators of possible issues before they get 'out of hand'.

Looking forward to additional info.
Robert

It was said: "The crusting that happens after rain or watering can be ameliorated with the addition of gypsum."

That's true ONLY if the underlying problem is an excess of sodium ion in the soil. (Sodium disperses soil particles.) And only a professional lab test can determine that.

It was said: "ammonium-based fertilizers contain about 3% salts per pound and some urea-based can contain as much as 7%) - so too little gypsum is lots worse than too much, if it's really needed (I use powdered gypsum when building new piles to pre-mediate the salt issue)."

As was said, gypsum can help with soil problems caused by sodium.

Ammonium fertilizers don't contain any sodium whatsoever.

Merry Christmas everyone. My soil is not that bad really. IM always amzed at how thorough these conversations turn into. Robert I did buy to dumptruck loads of screened topsoil and just placed it with my tractor on the existing soil. It does have alot of earthworms in it. Sometimes on every scoop with a shovel. Its just that I till the garden and plant it, with time and probably to much of me going out in the garden looking to see how my veges are doing. Its one big garden 30 by 50 ft or so. Its elevated 8 to 12 in and slightly heaped in the middle for good runoff. My vege crops have been good. The only thing I have not been able to grow well in onions. They never seem to get big. I have raised great sweet corn, hot peppers, cabbabe,broccoli, tons of potatoes, spinach,lettuce, asparagus, squash,zuccini. so you get the picture there. Just with rain and high temps it gets hard on top. so I think my soil is a touch on the clay side.
Could I use the triticale to plant in between the rows. Maybe a nice ground cover. HOwever it might get to tall. I dont know about the salt in my compost. My primary ingredients are leaves, strw,chicken manure that was fresh when thrown in. Cow and horse manure that had been outside for 6 monthes before placed in it, and egg shells and some foods scraps. I highly doubt its high in salt. I use alot of carbon. Well I dont think I have anything wrong with my soil, it just needs its first batch of comppost in it, thanks again, brandon

That's true ONLY if the underlying problem is an excess of sodium ion in the soil. (Sodium disperses soil particles.)

What you say is correct for the treatment of sodic soils. But gypsum has many other benefits in addition to the treatment of sodic soils. Calcium is an important cementing agent in soils. Gypsum is more soluble than limestone or dolomite and so affects the aggregation of soil particles more quickly.

The reference article is a slightly edited version of a chapter titled - Gypsum is Almost a Universal Soil Amendment - in Soil Conditioner and Amendment Technologies Volume 1, 1995 published by Wallace Laboratories. Until I had read this book, I had not fully appreciated the value of gypsum as a general soil conditioner.

The book is a bit expensive but you should be able to access it through inter-library loan. Here is a CONTENTS listing of the book.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gypsum

Yes, Brandond, it does get thourough. And sometimes a tad competitive, as well.

I have great, loamy clay soil, but in the hottest parts of summer,it can get very dry on top and when it does, rain wants to run over it rather than soak in. I find that even a light layer of mulch prevents this from happening. Lawn clippings are my personal favorite, being free and easy to come by. But other materials work as well.

And by the way, I never turn my amendments into my soil. I double dug it once, years ago, and now I just don't walk on my 3' wide beds so the soil does not compact. Each fall I add the contents of my chicken coop on top along along with leaves and grass from the lawn. I also dump my hardwood ashes on it as we heat with wood. If the contents of my additions are just wasted, somebody forgot to tell my veggies.
Kay.

Cowgirl - very interesting read on the gypsum. Not too scientific (which is more up my alley). This sounds like knowledge I wish I had at my old house. I think it would have helped me a lot. Not that expensive either according to the link.

Val

Compost is a very stable source of soil nutrients, applying compost to the soils surface will not result in a loss of nutrients to the atmosphere. Tilling soil is not known to kill earthworms, at least I've not seen anything to support that although I am aware many people do think it is so, but tilling does disrupt your Soil Food Web and dislodges the mycelum the soil fungi have constructed. Tilling also can introduce too much air in the soil which is why you need to wait a few weeks afterwards before planting, for the entrained air to settle out. For those of us that have planting beds of a reasonable size, say 4 x 4, have no need to till these beds since the soil never gets walked on so it does not get compacted. If you have a large, and wasteful, planting bed of say 10 by 20, your walking on it to manage that means you must till so you can walk in the soil to plant, weed, and harvest so you will neeed to till it again.

If you have a large, and wasteful, planting bed of say 10 by 20, your walking on it to manage that means you must till so you can walk in the soil to plant, weed, and harvest so you will neeed [sic] to till it again.

Condescending.
Arrogant.

Val

PS - Broken watch

Brandon, I'm not nearly as smart as the experts on here (sometimes it gets confusing for me) but --is there any way you can break up the garden into smaller "patches' so you can avoid walking on the entire bed? This would solve your compaction problems--and I find as I get older, the less work is better. I know this was said before, but--honestly--it helps.

Posted by kimmsr "Compost is a very stable source of soil nutrients"

Could you define "very stable source" for me?

My research concerning turf, shows compost offering very little, as far as nutrients per se, and it never is considered as a nutrient source in the turf industry.

An example from http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/eng4466

Nutrient %
Nitrogen 2.6
Carbon 27
Phosphorus 0.9
Potassium 2.0
Sulfur 0.5
Iron 0.8
Zinc 0.02
Copper 0.006
Boron 0.002
Manganese 0.03
Organic Matter 50
Moisture 30

Just curious in your thoughts and ideals.

The nutrients in compost are very stable. When one does, or has done, a soil test you are testing for very soluble nutrients so since the nutrients in compost are not soluble you do not get any with a soil test. Put compost onto your soil and after a time (months) have that soil tested and you will find an increase in the soil nutrient levels. Those nutrients came from the compost, even though that compost did not show any when it was tested. Because the nutrients in compost are so stable, and then cannot be tested for, many people, not understanding this, will then tell you that compost has none. They are there but require action by the Soil Food Web to become available to the plants growing in that soil.
When I started gardening here 35 plus years ago a soil test showed the soil pH to be 5.7 and very low levels of P, K, Mg, Ca, and therefore all the others after adding compost and other organic matter to day the soil tests, consistently, with a pH of 7.2 and optimal levels of P, K, Mg, and Ca and at no time in the last 35 years have I purchased any "fertilizers" except Milorganite for the lawn.

i understand that....
kimmsr share some pics!!!

Posted by kimmsr "Compost is a very stable source of soil nutrients"

Could you define "very stable source" for me?

Posted by kimmsr "The nutrients in compost are very stable."

I see ... (you're in upper management, aren't you?)

How about those nutrients you speak of - could you (anyone, please) help me with the nutrient composition of composts that you refer to as opposed to what I posted above, which are nil if any?

I understand the structure of composts, ie microbes and beneficial bacteria, fungi, AKA living soil, it's just the term nutrients from something carbon based that confuses me.

garyinchicago,

I sent an email to Virginia Nelson, the author of the information you quoted in your post, because the information I obtained from multiple sources regarding fully-composted cattle manure and straw bedding do not agree with her figures. Nor do mine.

The nutrients reported by Virginia totalled 33.858 percent of the sample, with 27% of 'nutrients' listed as carbon (not a nutrient per se, except in an organic compound), and 50% of the reported sample being non-organic - which is confusing.
I presume an error in the data, but will post her answer when received.

My suggestion is to check other sources for comparison data, and also look for information with nutrient results in ppm of sample, which (to me) are more representative indications of compost nutrient quality.

I have my cattle manure/hay compost tested by a lab regularly, and rarely is the organic content shown to be less than 84%, with the 16% consisting mostly of sand particles because the soil is sandy and the hay/manure is trampled around the hay ring and I scrape the stuff up with my tractor front loader.

And do some research on kimmsr's information.
Nitrogen is very UNSTABLE, being very volatile and water soluable.
Potassium and Phosphorous are not particularly volatile, but do readily leach in water (i.e., water runoff issues).

The labs that do my soil tests have NO difficulty whatsoever in determining what nutrient and micronutrient levels are in my finished compost.

Microorganisms that decompose organic material to make minerals available to plants should be the same in compost as in good soil. There is NO appreciable advantage of soil microbes over compost microbes, unless the compost is deficient in microbes that do the work, that originally came from the soil. Inocculation of microbes into a new compost build is standard practice, whether by soil, good finished compost or fresh compost 'tea'.

I hope you understand the difference between the information I present here and kimmsr's information - which are quite opposite. One of us is wrong.
Do the research...

And check again, regarding compost spread on turf as a source of plant nutrition.
Never recommended? Only by a chemical freak maybe...
Apparently your research missed these:
http://www.eartheasy.com/article_compost_turf.htm
http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/HG_Compost_03.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/partnerships/greenscapes/projects/nscclub.htm
http://www.compostingvermont.org/articles/turf_establishment.htm
And hundreds more...

Robert

The Turf industry is more interested to supplying sufficient nitrogen in highly soluble forms and much lower amounts of P and K, the last two problematic by encouraging more stem and thatch than blade.

In my experience as a producer of finished compost for landscape and farming uses, compost is a form of slow-release fertilizer low in nitrogen but an important supplier of micronutrients and secondary nutrients. The amount of P and K will vary with initial ingredients and management of the composting windrows.

These tomatoes and squash are growing in 8" of 100% compost. If there are no nutrients in compost, how did they do this?

John
{{gwi:318267}}

If the nutrients in compost were so readily available that a soil test could actually extract them then compost could be labeled as a "fertilizer" rather than a soil amendment, but since they cannot be easily extracted compost cannot be called a "fertilizer" and must be sold as a soil amendment.

One more thing to keep in mind is that you use far more pounds of compost than you do fertilizer. Say, for example, you put down 100 lb of fertilizer that's 10% N. That's 10 lb of N. If you use 1000 lb of compost at 1% N, voila, also 10 lb of N. Comparing percentages is only part of the equation.

Hi brandond, hope you're not disillusioned by the track your thread has taken. I'll offer my thoughts on your original two questions.

1. what is the best way to incorporate all this compost that I have,

Just scatter it on top of the soil. I'm a no-till kind of guy and believe that the value of compost is best when rain or irrigation washes through it down into the soil. What it is washing in is the microbes that decomposed the original foodstuffs you put into the compost as well as the stable nutrients that kimmsr mentioned. I believe those are humic and fulvic acids - a decomposition product with little to no immediate value until bacteria and fungi work on them in the presence of minerals and salt ions. Compost lacks the minerals and salts to make them available to plants.

Humates are what makes soil look brown. As you can see from looking at our 4-billion-year-old soil, the humates must be very stable, because the soil is still brown after all this time. Of course more humates are made all the time, but researchers estimate their "life" in the soil to range from years to thousands of years, depending on the exact forumla.

2. how do I prevent the soil surface compaction on top.

We really need better definitions of compaction so we can discuss the concept as a range of soil density from normal settling of the fluffy product of rototilling all the way to pugging when livestock remove all air from the soil by repeatedly plunging their legs deep into mud at the side of a pond. Occasional walking on plowed soil is not compaction in my book. If it were my garden I would grow grass between the rows. Triticale might be perfect - I'm not familiar with it. Leave it long or mow it high, though, so the roots will penetrate deep. Some orchard growers in the Rio Grande Valley are leaving the nutgrass alone between the rows of their trees. Nutgrass doesn't rob the soil of nutrients but its prolific growth does keep the soil loose.

Now I'll comment on the general discussion above and hopefully avoid the total red herrings. I'm rarely on kimmsr's side of compost discussions but I (sometimes) recognize unwarranted mistreatment when I see it. soilguy sometimes reads other people's messages and forms an opinion before finishing his reading. Then he finishes the other person's thoughts based on his misinterpretation and gets upset about it. kimmsr never said what soilguy said he said. soilguy and kimmsr are not necessarily on opposite sides of anything that I can see here. They seem to agree more than disagree on compost nutrients. And garyinchicago never (quite) said what soilguy said he said, either. If he has enough information I'd like to see soilguy's answers to brandond's original questions.