get bayer advanced disease control. It works great for me in blackspot heaven no black spot at all here with 60+ rose bushes (I am fairly new to growing large numbers of roses....at my old place I had 5!)

Please don't be frustrated--no one is born knowing how to control Blackspot--it takes a little practice and patience.

Mancozeb and Banner Maxx are very able to control BS. The question is, why did they burn the leaves? Spraying should be done when temperatures are below...what is it, can't remember...about 85F? If it is too hot, the spray can burn.

Was it very hot when you sprayed? And I am assuming your measured the fungicide correctly with a measuring spoon, not a guessed splash. The other thing is, you should only be spraying Banner Maxx once every two weeks. You may have overdone it.

From the Rosemania spray program document:

Spray Banner Maxx (Honor Guard) every two weeks. Add Penthalon DF or Mancozeb
to the Banner Maxx every other spraying. The Pentathlon DF or Mancozeb will kill any blackspot spores that
are building up a resistance to the Banner Maxx. Anytime you combine products, always use them at full
strength.
If blackspot is already active in your garden, spraying a preventative alone is not going to be enough. You need a
blackspot contact killer. Spray Pentathlon DF or Mancozeb every three days for three intervals. Example: Spray
on Monday, Thursday and Sunday. Spray the top and bottom side of the leaves and the bed. This will kill all the
active spores and give you a fresh start. Once completed, go back to your regular preventative program.

Please don't give up, it's a learning process and you will get better and better at it as time goes by.

Here is a link that might be useful: rosemania spray program

I've been spraying for years and never had a burn. Spray only in the early morning before the sun is hot on the leaves and hopefully they are still damp from morning dew. Also make sure you had the right concentration and didn't overdose them.

Also, spray disease prone roses as soon as they leaf out so they never get BS. Easier to prevent than get rid of.

I share your frustration. I began spraying my roses in late March alternating between Bayer Advanced Disease and Fuginex on a religious 14 day schedule. Any water mother nature didn't provide was done strictly with a hose placed under the bush on a drip setting. Of my 60+ roses only a handful are without blackspot.

I use Banner Maxx and Mancozeb, every 14 days (or so I'm supposed to) no burn. I do use Indicate5 in the mix, which balances the pH of the water and has sticker properties. And a liquid seaweed.

And even though it rained the night before, the roses still might not have been fully hydrated. I also spray before 11 AM, 10 AM on brutally hot days.

Since the plant already has blackspot, those leaves were goners anyway. Blackspot is always there. Even though you didn't SEE an outbreak on TOR or PJPII, blackspot was there.

You might lose those leaves that are there. Keep on the spray program, then new leaves will be clean.

Will Orthonex work just as well? It's sounds more like a broad spectrum control, and if it comes to using 4 different sprays just for all the roses, I will just let them tough it out on their own. Roundup for worst cases outside the rose bed, sometimes broadleaf for the lawn if I can get my son to do it for me, and am finding the Ortho equivalent of Grass be Gone works slowly but seems to work. That is too many chemicals already. Now another one, Milky Spore or Grubx for Jap beetle larvae. Oh and I need a pre-emergent for crab grass which is a terrible problem for me. Plus I'm using rose food, MirGro (seldom now), Osmocote for other plants, MirAcid and kelp and should have gotten some with fish emulsion (fertilizers). Where does it end?

Dark Lady, beautiful though she is, is prone to black spot. A lot of them had it last year, I didn't do anything except try to pick off the bad leaves from the plant and ground, then gave up. All the BS ones came back this year and have put out new growth but I suppose it could kill or weaken any of them.

Is there any all-purpose spray that doesn't damage the environment or minimally so and is not the Bayer All in one which I returned? I'm confused about using chemicals anyway, and reading here, some seem to prefer different things, but I have seen Bannermax and Mancozeb, Bayer Advanced (different from all-in-one, a systemic, I think) mentioned a lot on a couple forums here, also Sevin. I understand they are not all for the same problem. I seem to have everything except RRD so far.

I haven't done anything myself yet because I don't like handling any of the stuff except the grass one doesn't bother me, tested it out on a small spot first on a plant I didn't care so much about, and is easier than something I have to mix, the latter clean everything up way in back on the unpaved driveway where the hose doesn't reach. Anything I would use to measure chemicals I would want to mark clearly and never ever use them for food again.

Should I return the Orthonex and get Bayer Advanced or one of the others mentioned?

I always measure everything exactly. The one time I sprayed in the morning I had burned leaves, so I've been doing the other sprays in the evening around 7:30pm. The roses have been in the shade for a couple hours by then.

Deanna

Lots of good advice here, namely DON'T spray if the temperature is above 80F and DON'T spray if the plants are not well watered. Also be very careful to get the dilution rate correctly or the chemicals can become phytotoxic. Don't let this discourage you, you will get it right!

Here's a vote for spending your time and your fungicide dollar on more disease-resistant roses for your climate. That takes as much research as reading about spray materials, but in the long run, it can save you a lot of time and aggravation.

beerndoodle, I certainly agree and if this weren't just the second year for all my roses, would do that and probably will. Am thinking about waiting until next year to see what happens, and then deciding what might work best for me and getting rid of the disease-prone except would be extremely reluctant to give up the once bloomers I've rooted and Veilchenblau and a couple of the Austins that are otherwise doing well overall.

you could always plant the ko's in front of the naked roses, for the nice foliage, and just snip the blooms off, they're nothing to look at anyway, to give the illusion that your expensive blooms have nice clothes. or you could possibly mix them with ornamental grasses to hide their nakedness and allow the blooms to poke their heads through. or you could just quit treating your freckled and naked roses like they had leprosy. I know, it's so embarassing when your mother comes over and all these naked ladies are just laying in the bed. Of course if there are bosoms of bloom no one notices their nakedness or how many freckles or warts they might have.

No, please don't give up. Find out what works best in your area and go with that. Trust me on that. You can later stretch your zones and try others.

Carla

I find Nicole to be a very difficult rose bush to keep control of diseases on. I have controlled the diseases this year despite our Midwestern weather. It wanted to blackspot but I pulled the few affected leaves off, and sprayed with Pentathlon a/k/a Mancozeb repeatedly, and stopped it. My Nicole bushes seem to be peculiarly susceptible to spider mites, too.

I don't like to spray Pentathlon too much, so I only pull it out when its really bad blackspot weather.

I use Funginex. I spray my fruit tree with Captan and use that too. I spray Daconil only when it is cool -- it helps control botrytis as well. I do have some Immunox that I use on roses that are prone to powdery mildew -- it will help control blackspot.

You are not going to be satisfied with your roses this year if they have blackspot. It is irreversible. If it is an advanced case of BS you can cut them back and take off the leaves, and basically allow them to start over as if it were spring. Keep them well-watered. The BS can get into the canes so even this may not work. But it is your best option. Don't wait until late in the year to restart them.

You need to start spraying when the leaf buds start to swell and pop out leaves. Weekly spraying will control blackspot. I have never used Banner Maxx so I am cautious about advising how often to spray with it. But the locally available fungicides like funginex, daconil, immunox and captan can be sprayed weekly. And when you alternate or combine different ingredients you will have healthy plants and a happy state of mind. Your rose bushes will be growing almost as well as if you lived in rose growing heaven, i.e. California.

Incidentally, never spray Daconil when it is hot. It will burn rose bushes in sunny conditions at temps in the high 70s.

The problem with Orthenex is that it kills both the good and bad bugs, so you have to keep spraying to keep the bad bugs under control.

Giving away diseased roses and replacing them with better roses is certainly an option, now that hybridizers' efforts at bringing disease resistant roses are coming to market.

Let me emphasize a point made by Mark. Spraying will not "cure" the BS leaves. Those leaves are goners--they will turn yellow and ugly and fall off. What the spray will do is keep the BS from spreading to the other leaves--the ones that do not have BS yet, including the new leaves that will emerge after the BS infected leaves fall off.

Just wanted to make sure that you were not operating on misplaced expectations. Sometimes posters think the spray didn't work because it did not eliminate BS from the currently infected leaves. That is not how it works.

Good luck,

Kate

I put the roses that need spraying the most in big pots surrounded by plenty of air circulation where I can water them with a hose from below. That helps me keep the spraying to just a few times in the season when it rains or is very humid. Putting down fresh mulch helps too and washing off the leaves when the sun is just on the plants helps me keep the rust away. If I think its going to be a bad season for blackspot, I start spraying regularly. Otherwise, I try to keep the plants well hydrated and provide a good layer of mulch and plenty of air circulation. You have to do what works best in your garden. Moving the plants that got blackspot the worst away from the others helped me spray less. I'm a big softy and could not shovel prune them. They are much healthier in the pots and I can keep a watchful eye on them by the door for the first sign of problems.

I spray with a rotating base of Honor Guard, Compass, and Funginex. If I see the first signs of any fungus, I add Mancozeb to the potion and that seems to really keep me almost totally disease free and my bushes are very healthy and productive. It really has become quite easy.
Don't get me wrong, I have made my share of mistakes along the way and it took some trial and error to perfect the routine. I started off spraying every 10 days and with experience and good results I am now only spraying about every 21 days and still no fungus disease problems with the exception of a very minor amount of botrytis once in a while that really shows up on white and light pinks.
Don't give up!!
John