I'm usually very patient depending on the problem. If it's lack of vigor sometimes it just means a rose is slow to mature. I've had many pleasant suprises in that department. Some roses have taken three years to grow well. If a rose has bad disease problems sometimes that does get better with age but not often. I do try extra measures before I give up. I make sure I'm careful to water enough. I assess the light and drainage. I give the rose boosts of fertilizer. Sometimes I find that a rose just doesn't seem worth waiting for.

gardennatlanta, which roses and how old are they?

Sherry

Sherry, The two biggest offenders are Ducher and Marchessa Bochella. IÂve had Ducher for 6 seasons (5 ½ years) and MB for 5 seasons (4 ½ years). Both are BS prone in my garden and lose most of their leaves. Ducher responds a little better to spraying (but this year I had a lot going on and couldnÂt keep it up on a regular basis) JBs like both and Ducher is a thrip magnet. I used to have two MBs but dug one out but decided to keep the other to give it more time. Ducher almost left this spring but he was bushing out so nicely, I decided that he deserved a second chance. I like that Ducher smells like grapefruit to meÂI really like grapefruit and itÂs decidedly not a typical rose smell but IÂm just underwhelmed and would like to use that spot for something that might do betterÂitÂs in the VERY front of the yardÂclose to the street. I love the fragrance of MB and when she blooms, I want to forget the UGLY foliage (and lack thereof) but sheÂs in the front garden, too.

Of course, this year wasnÂt a stellar year for my garden. When IÂd fertilize, (just basic 10-10-10), the weeds seem to love it and the roses seemed to just take it in stride and sulk. I know the drought was a big factor but there was very little I could do about that until later in the summer when I did increase their water. To be honest, IÂm a little discouraged (but that isnÂt stopping me from buying a few new plants while theyÂre on sale).

My wife doesnÂt want me making the garden biggerÂI can mow the grass in a little over 30 minutes but could never weed that quicklyÂweeds have been a big problem this year.

I ask the question because I donÂt want to rip out some plants that typically take a while to get established and then they are stars in the garden. (IÂm giving Perle dÂOr more timeÂshe is still so small but seems to want to bloom. BS isnÂt a big problem and neither are thrips or JBsÂat least not as bad as others).

Abe Darby is moving to the back garden. I love his blooms and the fragrance and will just live with the defoliation when he is hidden in the back.

Sorry for the long answer to the short question. Jeff

I had Ducher for a short time and lost him to a potting soil problem that took a few other babies. But while I had him, he had much more BS than other Chinas, so I wasn't real distressed by the loss. Here in the BS capital of the world a nursery-owner friend grows MB and Baronne Prevost (I just planted BP). She hard prunes them after each bloom to force new growth that doesn't get BS for a while at least. Consequently, her bushes are smaller, but this has been working to keep them foliated with less BS. I don't grow the others you mention.

Fortunately, I don't have much of a weed problem, and I don't really know why. The few weeds I get are easy to pull as they come up here and there. In the spring I mulch with a 2"-3" layer of composted horse manure and then pine straw (pretty thick) or oak leaves (not so thick since I don't have as much of it.) Where I don't have the CHM, I do get lots of weeds. I have to fix that area soon.

For what it's worth,if it were me, I'd hold onto MB, introduce Ducher to Mr. Shovel, and replace it with Marjory Palmer, an Alister Clark polyantha. I just got mine about a month ago from RU, and she's going great guns with dark green leaves and lots of blooming already. But that's just me. My mission of late is BS free, well-foliated roses. So far Marjory is a winner.

Sherry

Depends entirely on how big the pot ghetto is.

Seriously, 5 1/2 years and 4 1/2 years is probably sufficient to determine long-term performance.

For the problems you mention I doubt that they'd last even three years in my garden. I'm very fortunate not to have to deal with your disease issues but instead I have the problem of dry heat that many roses can't seem to tolerate. I've only gardened here for less than three years but have already shovel pruned over 40 roses. If they look nice for only a few months out of the year or don't bloom for a long enough period I don't keep them. I'm not advocating such measures for anyone else but I've learned rather quickly what roses don't like it here, and I feel life is too short, and I'm too passionate about my garden, to tolerate plants that aren't happy or that don't make me happy. There are sooo many roses out there to try. I don't drink or smoke, and don't spend much money on clothes or shoes, so this is my one luxury, and fortunately my husband has been very supportive of what I do in the garden.

Ingrid

I think you've given them a fair chance. Get rid of them, preferably into someone else's garden (I hate to kill roses). About the weeds, do you mulch? Do you underplant your roses? Both these practices will greatly weaken and discourage weeds. Mulch will also help keep the ground cooler and moister, useful in periods of drought.
Good luck!
Melissa

I've dumped roses in as little as three months if they show intolerable disease. Intolerable disease varies from garden to garden. In my garden, it is rust. If it rusts, it leaves. No grace period.

I am having a hard time to get rid of any roses, but that's being said, I give roses away when there is something that I really don't like about them for example the color or flower shape of a rose (Scentimental had to go, even though it was a good performer, because I didn't like the warm bold red colored stripes).

In my old garden (Bay Area, CA) I learned that as roses mature they can greatly change their performance regarding how floriferous they are, how the bush shape looks. The disease resistance I found didn't improve so much with age.

In my new garden in San Diego I made the same observations (I am gardening here now for around 2 years). So far I have not sp one rose, but Zephirine Drouhin (leave disease issues, almost no second flush), Eden (leave disease issues, 1st year no second flush, second year a good second flush!) and Burgundy Iceberg (very floriferous, but I really don't like when her flowers get from a wonderful velvety dark burgundy color to a blaring hot pink in the heat of Summer) are on the watch list.

I have just recently decided that in general I will keep a rose for 3 years until I make a final decision and try everything possible to make it grow well in this time.

Thanks for the input everyone. Ok. Ducher is out. I think I might try to find a little place in the back for MB. Maybe back there I can enjoy the fragrance but live with the ugly foliage.

Melissa, yes, I do mulch. I'm wondering if maybe this year that's the problem. I'm thinking maybe the mulch I bought was full of weed seeds. Weeds have never been this bad. Now that I write this, the one small garden patch that didn't get a whole lot of new mulch has way less weeds than the other garden plots. Sounds suspicious to me.

I also try to underplant. That's still a work in progress, finding things I like that complement the taller, bigger plants without getting huge themselves.

Jeff

Jeff, don't be discouraged. We all have been there before, when our gardens have an off year, because some of the roses planted in the past are not performing the way they ought to. I only give a rose about 3 years to impress me, otherwise it's curtains for that bush and it's on to a more promising rose. Good luck to you and me with our ever-evolving gardens.

Juliet