I'm not in Florida, but I'm planning to move there in a few years (after grad school) and have read about this issue a bunch of times (but have no actual experience with it). Do some internet searching for articles about tested methods of control.

Basically, what I've read a lot was the importance of maintaining a very active live soil with lots of organic matter. This works to make it easier for the plants to access nutrients and promote more growth (to counter damage by the root knot nematodes) and also to foster a more diverse community of organisms within the soil (which will help to inhibit root knot nematode proliferation). When sand is your base, and considering the warm temperatures in Florida, you'll probably have to be adding nutrient-rich mulches and compost a few times a year to your beds. Roots that extend beyond the nutrient-rich high-in-organics soil may suffer damage from the root knot nematodes, but if you maintain an active good soil in the beds, the nematodes won't be as successful at migrating into the heart of the roses' roots.

I'm sure Malcom Manners will have more to say.

:-)

~Christopher

I have some on Fortuniana and the rest are own root. I try to keep rooted duplicates in case I do have nematode invasion. My oldest roses are about ten years old. Dr. Manners says eventually they will invade even heavily amended soil, but I'm hoping not.

Nematodes "swim" through the sand so, like you, my planting holes are filled mostly with composted horse manure and kitty litter (the cheap kind that's pure clay). I used to put it only in the bottom of the hole, but now I mix it all through the hole. Dr. Manners says nematodes do not like heavy mulch, so I keep my beds all heavily mulched with horse manure and wood shavings. So far, most of my original roses (teas, chinas and noisettes) are still going strong. The ones I've lost were not due to nematodes.

I'm sure if Dr. Manners sees this, he will respond with better info.

We've grown roses in central Florida sandy soil for nearly 30 years. And during that time I've observed other roses in the area. Generally, the Chinas seem to be fine on their own roots. I find 'Louis Philippe', 'Old Blush', 'Napoleon', etc., sometimes ancient plants, that are fine. I have found a few Teas, particularly 'Mrs. B. R. Cant', as well as the multiflora climber 'Tausendschoen', but only near a building or other large concrete slab that they can put their roots under (where the nematodes avoid). R. laevigata is fine, as is Crepuscule. But other than those examples, I've seldom (ever?) found other own-root roses more than a few years old here in the Lakeland area. A bit farther north, with some clay in the soil, many other varieties seem to be just fine. But even with massive additions of organic matter, we've not had a lot of luck with most other roses, own-root.

How bad are the nematodes in south Florida, specifically areas like Homestead and Redlands, in Miami-Dade County? I've found some bits of information suggesting the soil there isn't quite as "nematode-y", including two reports about teas, chinas, noisettes and some bourbons being compared after a few years of growth on their own roots. But that's about all the info I have.

:-)

~Christopher

Using mycchorhizae has been producing encouraging results with rose replant disorder (nematodes?). I have been using mycchorhizal granules for 6 years or so, particularly on bareroot trees and perennials. Although I only did the most rudimentary scientific comparison (I kept a non-innoculated plant for comparison) and my evidence is purely anecdotal, I truly believe that this is a beneficial amendement in potting soils(I have sweet peppers and cucumbers in pots)
My eldest gets very excitable about this sort of stuff - and, as ever, we do not have to buy expensive granules which have that faint whiff of snakeoil.....it is quite feasible to harness mycchorhizal fungi - being a dimwit, I don't know how to do a link but Sunseed Desert Technology has a mycchorhizae project to make and use these beneficial fungi without resorting to expensive granules such as Rootgrow.

Thank you to everyone who posted to this thread.

Good thought, Campanula. I hadn't looked at that aspect of mycorrhizae. I also agree with Amberroses. At the rate I switch out my roses in 10 years I will probably be able to use one hand to count the roses that are that old, and it won't have anything to do with nematodes. :))

But seriously, g-in-fl, the only thing I would suggest is that you plant in beds rather than holes. Put another way, connect your planting holes with amended areas. Then you don't have nematode-zones all around the roses - just along the edge of the bed. If you live in a subdivision plant along your driveway, sidewalk, patio. Interestingly, I had a couple of Buddleias (before I knew they were nematode-prone) planted near the house in mostly builder's sand. They lasted one season. When I pulled them out in the 2nd season, they were sickly and the bulging knots on the roots were there. So I know the nematodes are here, but the roses don't seem to be bothered in the Sherry-made soil they're living in.

Also, I break up the ground in the bottom of the hole, thinking that the organics will have an easier time leaching into it. In February I dug up a rose that I was sure was suffering from having it's roots down in the crappy native ground that I hadn't dug out enough originally. I love this rose so I got fanatical. I went down about 3-1/2 feet (looked like I was digging a grave). I hit white clay which maybe the nematodes don't like (per Malcolm) but it tested VERY low nitrogen so not good for the rose. I put pine fines (soil conditioner) in the broken-up bottom of the hole and all the good stuff above that. The rose has done better this year.

You can only do what you can do. But hey, I saw a machine - a tiny front-end loader - for rent at the True Value store near me. Oh, man, I wish I had known there was such a thing when I was digging my beds - and moving the crappy soil out of the bed. Reasonable rental rates, too. Think about it...and have fun!

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, I'd think the Ocala area would be fine for most own-roots without fear of nematodes?

Campanula -- interestingly, whatever rose replant disorder is, it does not appear to occur here. It could be some sort of nematode, but no one seems to know. In any case, mycorrhizae here have been shown to be helpful if used in newly sterilized soils, where the native mycorrhizae have been killed. But in long-established soils, they usually have little or no effect, since the soil is already naturally loaded up with them. That reinoculation occurs within one season, the spores traveling in dust in the air. But as always, "your mileage may vary" -- I'm talking specifically about roses in Florida (as well as citrus), here.

I thought having Nematodes is a good thing???

JessicaBe:

There are good and bad nematodes. This topic is referring to root-knot nematodes, which are bad. When you see just "nematodes" in a post on this thread, the posted is just abbreviating.

:-)

~Christopher

Campanula, I never heard that rose replant disease had anything to do with nematodes. Isn't replant disease something associated with the rootstock used in Britain for budded roses? Is it r. canina?

Sherry,
Planting in beds makes good sense. I'm not in a subdivision , so there are no manmade barriers. I've just called a land clearer with a rootrake and the capability of moving large amounts of soil (ha - I wish !) for an estimate. It takes me three days to dig a single hole, so a bed is out of the question without big-time help. Hopefully, he will be able to get rid of a couple palms and oaks , and more importantly, get rid of all the roots and sugar sand.
Now I would like to know more about this "Sherry made soil". Please.

My son used to live east of Ocala, east of Silver Springs, toward the Forest, and his soil was terrible white sand, he was up on that ridge that runs north and south, and nothing would grow in that stuff unless he dug it all out and put compost instead...he tried azaleas and they quickly died, it was so alkaline.....sally

Chris, I improve my beds by dumping four or five inches of horse manure/wood shavings every three to six months, depending on how quickly it composts down. But I also dig deep, wide holes filled with composted manure and kitty litter for each rose.

g-in-fl, Sherry-made soil is pretty much anything organic I can get my hands on. Composted horse manure from a farm, bagged Fafard soil conditioner, hoping that the pine will add a little acidity, bagged cow manure compost, bagged Scott's Lawn Soil, afalfa, Milorganite. I usually add bagged topsoil but I'm more choosey now since I saw a broken bag at Walmart that was nothing more than fine sand. Occasionally I use Black Kow but it's expensive.

Sally, you're right. It's really sandy out there. I've read that on this side of the river the soil structure is different, but my last house was on nothing but sand on this side of the river. Mine looks more like mortar mix.

And Malcolm, I wouldn't blame the nematodes for not living here.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I think the jury is still out on causes of rose replant, Rinaldo. Canina is rarely used these days - most growers have moved on to laxa but I don't think the reasons for replant syndrome have been fully explained or understood but I am no expert in plant pathology.
An attempt to overcome rose replant involves planting in a 'clean' potting mix in a cardboard box of sufficient size (8 cubic feet)with mycchorhizal amendements which is then planted in the 'sick' soil.The mycchorhizae enables efficient uptake through increased surface area and gives the rose time to reach sufficient maturity to cope when the cardboard degrades and roots come into contact with 'affected' soil. For sure, there are pitfalls with this method (differentials in soil types, possibility of becoming rootbound)....but, on balance, given the current failure of new roses to grow where older ones have previously been (and you are all demons at moving roses about in the US - we don't easily have this option), the cardboard box and mycchorhizal method is having some success.

That's a fascinating strategy, thanks for sharing Campanula.

Sherry, you have to be careful with bagged cow manure, too. It may be primarily sticks and other stuff and may have only as much as is required by law (15% where I am) to be called "composted cow manure".

I live in North Florida, Panama City Florida. I really don't have a fear of nematodes since no one around here has complained about them nor have I read anything about them around here. My soil is black rich soil with clay in it. I do amend a rose hole though with some goat manure I get from a friend. I mulch with oak leaves and pine needles. Water once a week and feed when I can get around to it...LOL I have own root roses and they are doing fine. I am taking note of the roses that do well for me and the ones that don't...I get rid of. I would love to go to Dr. Manners rose garden and see all the roses. Would totally love to buy roses from him when he has that rose sale going on! But so far I haven't noticed a problem with nematodes...now armadillo's...that's a whole 'nother story!

Deb

Lucky you! I have sugar sand, nematodes AND armadillos. They can destroy a beautifully mulched bead overnight. My husband's mini's (horses) got in a newly mulched bed yesterday and left little teeny hoof prints down to China all up and down the bed, snipping new rose growth as they went. Much more of that, and they will be a seat cover or something.

LOL, but I bet those mini horses are cuter than anything! I had deer in the spring for the first time ever after living here in the country for 23 years! I used to think armadillo's were soooo cute...not any more! That bugger plowed up 2 acres of our back property after we spent months and $$$$ on leveling and clearing it then planting grass. I guess it was loaded with grubs, LOL.

Deb

They're only cute when they're not in the rose beds. Armadillos also harbor leprosy, but you have to handle them or eat them (as if) to be exposed.

Floridarosez9 : it will compost faster if you cover it in a layer of coffee grounds then cardboard