I recently received "Too Cute" from Burlington, one of Kim Rupert's roses. It's potted in a gallon now and is doing well. Maybe it would work for you.

Diane

Here is a link that might be useful: Too Cute

Thanks for giving some of my "babies" good homes! If Too Cute is as happy for you as it is for Cass Bernstein and several others, it is not going to be small enough! Take a look at China Doll. I know, the "Iceberg of polyanthas" but it remains smaller, about the size you've described, flowers ALL the time and its color should assort quite well with the others. When I first read, "smaller poly", I thought, "Doc!", but that has remained less than a foot for me as you state the offending one has for you. Kim

Hi Kim,

Whoops... how tall does "Too Cute" get for Cass and others? Need to know where to plant so I really can give your baby a good home.

Diane

Diane, One of my smaller polys that I immediatly thought of is Marshmellow Fluff from Burlington. Very cute and small, not very rigid canes, and blooms almost continuously! Healthy for me too. Also, White Koster stays small and healthy, here it does anyway :)

Tammy

Jackie, if you look at polyanthas at Rogue Valley Roses the size is listed under each rose. Borderer and China Doll, for instance, are both listed at 1-2 feet. However, as always these measurements need to be taken with a grain of salt. My Aunt Margy's Rose, listed as 3-4 feet, is growing against the house wall and at over six feet shows no signs of stopping.

Ingrid

'Sunshine.'

:-)

Jeri

Jackie...

I grow Ralph Moore's 'Little Eskimo' in my garden in TC, and it's a totally carefree rose. Many of Mr. Moore's roses were registered as miniature roses instead of polyanthas because polys were out of fashion when these roses were introduced and minis were in fashion.

LE can be pruned shorter and is still a very prolific bloomer.

Other roses that are not polys, but have stayed smaller than 'Little Eskimo' are 'Ruby Princess', 'Baby Austin', 'Little Tiger', 'Little Chief', 'Cherry Hi'. I also have 'Si' by Dot planted in the same bed. I've been told that 'Green Ice' can be grown as a rounded shrub and stays fairly low, but I have mine planted in a large container so that it can weep.

I've attached a photo of 'Little Eskimo' taken during a period of triple digit temps that lasted for several weeks.

Smiles,
Lyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Little Eskimo

Thank you all for the great suggestions! I am now going to go on HMF, etc. and look them all up. In my No Cal garden, roses tend to get way bigger than what HMF says is their largest size, so I have to be careful. However, I am sure I will be able to find an appropriate one from all of your suggestions. I'll let you know which one I choose, and how it works out.

Thanks again -

Jackie

Hi Jackie: What you wrote is music for my ears: "Lauren is lovely and blooms all of the time, but is 2-3 times bigger than the others." I was worried that chipmunks and bunnies will eat Lauren as they ate smaller mini-roses.

The perfect size for my zone 5a is "Marie Pavie", at 1.5' x 1.5' here. I wish I could find the same, except in different colors. mini "Blue Mist" is the same size, except it hates my alkaline soil.

Thanks Lyn, for the great suggestion of Ralph Moore's bigger minis. I check Burlington's roses list for mini-flora, and found these. I wonder if anyone grow them, and if they are the same round shape as Marie Pavie:

Sleeping Beauty - salmon pink 2' x 2' - fragrant
Sweet Arlene - lavender 3' x 3' - very fragrant
Showstopper - apricot blend 2008 release
Remembering Dee - very double white at 2' x 2'
Powerpoint - medium red 3' x 3'
Moonlight Scentsation - fragrant white at 3' tall
Double Gold - fragrant 3" bloom at 2' x 2'
Irresistible - spice up to 3' tall
Overnite Scentsation - pink rosette 3" bloom at 2' x 1'
Yantai - yellow at 3' x 3'

I'm hoping that the above mini-flora would be round and compact like Marie Pavie, yet big enough so chipmunks can't eat them. Thanks for any info.

I second Jeri's suggestion for Sunshine. She looks great with Charles Walker's Mignonette.

Another that I have in the same size/color range is Marytje Cazant

Here is a link that might be useful: Martje Cazant

Thank you, landlady, for echoing what Jeri suggested: "Sunshine", which made me look it up: very nice orange tangerine, strong sweet fragrance. I wonder if I can cut that for the vase? It was sold out at Burlington Roses last Christmas, so I would have to order early.

Check out this gorgeous pic. of "Sunshine" in an explosion of tangerine/yellow color. It's up to 2' tall.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunshine polyantha

Really excited to hear all of the great comments about Sunshine! I just got mine in the mail a couple of weeks ago fom Rogue Valley, and it looked great upon arrival! Then my heart sank because I read someplace that it is a weak grower, but all of your comments have made me excited about it again!

Tammy

Hi Tammy: I spent 15 minutes researching on "Sunshine". Kim Rupert praised its color in Rose Hybridizer Forum. One said Sunshine has "good petal substance" translates to heat-tolerance and good for the vase.

Bright lavender/purple "Sweet Pea" is a small one that someone listed in the "Ever-blooming rose" thread. It has moderate Fragrance. In last year thread on polyantha, Kim Rupert complimented a mauve mini, "Sweet Nothing", strong old rose fragrance. Unfortunately "Sweet Nothing" is NOT available here in U.S. It looks like a polyantha, except with strong scent.

Check out this "Sweet Pea" below. Kim thinks it has multiflora parentage, aka non-blooming fool in alkaline soil. Any one grow "Sweet Pea" successfully in alkaline soil? Thanks for the info.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sweet pea rose for alkaline soil????

I checked Sunshine parentage, it has William Allen Richardson as a Noisette parent, but this is a big and almost thornless climber. Although "Sunshine" might be wimpy with Noisette lineage in my cold zone 5a, it's worth the winter protection.

I have Blanche Neige (aka White Koster), Verdun (hot pink) and Zenaitta (bright red). The smallest one is Verdun at about 2 feet tall by a foot wide. It also blooms the least and black spots but it is in part shade. Blanche tends to be wider rather than taller at about 2 ft tall and 3 ft wide with good regular flushes and fairly good disease resistance. Zenaitta gets about 4 x 4 ft and is in constant bloom and is also the healthiest of the three. Not that it matters for you but all three are very winter hardy as well.

'Sunshine' is NOT a strong-grower here -- I suspect it might like more summer heat than we NORMALLY have.

We have had going on three weeks of unusually high temperatures, and 'Sunshine' has picked right up.

Jeri

StrawberryHill....

I've grown a LOT of miniature roses in my rose life... I started by volunteering at Tiny Petals, the nursery founded by Dee Bennett. Note: I've grown the roses both in Rose Heaven and in the mountains of northern California. I am going to share some info about the roses you listed

Sleeping Beauty - salmon pink 2' x 2' - fragrant --- size in registration is understated. According to the patent, it can have a spread of 3'. In my experience, it got a LOT taller than 22" in my milder climber.

NOTE: Most mini-floras will be larger plants because the reason the class was developed is that both the plant and bloom size were larger than miniature roses, but smaller than floribundas.

Sweet Arlene - lavender 3' x 3' - very fragrant - Beautiful rose. I wish I could grow it up here. My plant and the plant in the display garden at TP was at LEAST 3'. If you want that rose in your garden, give it plenty of room because it's a beauty. Has thinner petal substance and may not stand up to your heat.

Showstopper - apricot blend 2008 release -- I don't know the rose...

Remembering Dee - very double white at 2' x 2' -- a sport of 'Madeline Speazanno', which was not a small rose. I think it would exceed 2' x 2'

Powerpoint - medium red 3' x 3' -- I don't know the rose, but I think J & P is pretending that it is an HT for next year's introduction.

Moonlight Scentsation - fragrant white at 3' tall --- I haven't grown the rose. Looking at the lineage, I would not expect it to stay small. I may be wrong.

Double Gold - fragrant 3" bloom at 2' x 2' -- I haven't grown this one, but in my garden one of the best yellows that says shorter and smaller is 'Sequoia Gold'. It is totally resistant to my strain of bs, but I have been told that it can defoliate in other areas of the country.

Irresistible - spice up to 3' tall -- watch out ! This rose was over 5' tall in the SJHRG. It doesn't mind being pruned shorter and the blooms are wonderful. When it was introduced, it had the highest ARS rating ever given to any rose, Worth growing, but when you keep the plant small, it's not nearly as glorious as when you give it room.

Overnite Scentsation - pink rosette 3" bloom at 2' x 1' -- I haven't grown it, but it should meet your size requirements.

Yantai - yellow at 3' x 3' -- I'd have to say this has ALWAYS been my favorite minature/miniflora of all time. I had three when I lived in San Diego. All three were stolen. It's a spreading rose and has prolific bloom. I plan to get more of them for this garden.

Other suggestions based upon my experience up here in the mountains:

Splish Splash --- nicely rounded bush, always in bloom . It is actually a handpainted rose with a soft gold reverse. If kept deadheaded, it keeps pumping out the blooms in spite of tall temps.

Black Jade -- solid plant with stunning blooms

Lavender Chrystal -- stunning bloom with a good plant under it. In both of my gardens, it was disease free. It does have thinner petal substance. However, it has a lot of petals, so I wouldn't count on it opening well in shade or partial shade.

Loving Touch -- can get taller than reported height, a spreading plant with prolific bloom. Can be pruned smaller.

Pinstripe -- reported size seems to stay true. I think it is one of my favorite striped roses. I didn't used to like strips, but this rose changed my mind. Winter hardy for me without protection. Lovely rounded plant with great blooms.

Old Fashioned Girl -- I haven't grown it up here, but it was a lovely plant with great blooms in SOCAL.

Pink Porcelain --- I haven't grown it up here, but loved it in SOCAL. I'd buy it again, if I wanted more minis.

Something for Judy -- definitely under rated. Beautiful plant and bloom, but it needs to be protected from snow breakage.

Jackie ... other suggestions for smaller plants:

Cinderella (miniature, de Vink 1953) -- size is true and always in bloom.

Cupcake -- low and spreading, but not a poly.

Dresden Doll -- lovely rose and stays small

Simplex -- I've always loved this rose. Size stays true. I have used several as a border and it can make quit an impact even tho' it is a single.

Sweet Sue --- I have neglected this rose horribly and it always comes back and is always in bloom.

Earthquake --- a fun rose to grow and makes a small statement.

Lavender Jewel -- size is correct and it was healthy in the SJHRG

Lovely Lorrie --- size is true, but got some mildew in my NOCAL garden.

Rainbow's End ... will grow larger than stated size in milder climber, but I saw a hedge of this rose and it knocked my socks off. It should be cold hardy enough for you.

Winter Magic -- in my NOCAL garden has stayed quite small, but very healthy.

That's all for this morning. I've got to get work ... lol.

Smiles,
Lyn

Thank you, Lyn, for your experience with minis - I appreciate the info. very much. I placed an order for Sweet Arlene, I have a shady spot for it. I have the summer heat for "Sunshine", but would have to winter-protect for its strong sweet-scent.

Marie Pavie is getting too big here, she's 4 times bigger than my mini Love ya Dad. "Love Ya Dad" is the best bloomer for my 40+ roses, beating Knock-outs. That one has no leaves (chipmunks ate them), but with 15+ buds/blooms. I haven't figured out why it is still blooming with zero leaves. Minis really like hot weather and alkaline clay soil.
I take minis over Marie Pavie anytime. Minis are continuously in bloom. Marie Pavie pauses a bit, then a big flush which get fried in the heat ...

From what I saw of Too Cute as Cass's, it was in the three to four foot range, in all directions. I'll post one photo she sent me of it from several years ago here, and the second in a second post.

No, you can't cut Sunshine and expect it to last. The flowers are rather soft and shatter fairly easily. Its real values are that color, the marvelous scent and profusion of the blooms when it's happy. I have one own root plant in the ground and it is suicidal. Yellow-green leaves, not much growth. I have a second own root in a pot of MG Moisture Control Potting Soil and it is deep green, growing and flowering quite nicely. Good enough to have permitted me to use it for breeding this summer. The final one is a three foot standard Burling budded at Sequoia on Pink Clouds. It has grown at a client's house for quite a few years, but she got bored with it. A pair of duranta standards called her name and she was smitten! The Sunshine tree now resides in my back yard where it receives morning sun, filtered at mid day and more direct later in the day. It had most recently been grown in a 22" pot, which nearly killed me removing from the pot, dragging it home, down four flights of stairs and planting. But, it's now fine and flowering. The gazania in the pot were what was necessary to keep their new Golden from eating them. I guess gazanias aren't as tasty as most other plants? Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunshine tree

Second image of Too Cute from Cass from a few years ago.

Thanks Kim, can't wait for my Too Cute baby to grow up. Should I disbud to promote growth or not?

Diane

You're welcome, Diane! You can imagine how thrilled I was to receive the photos, then to see the actual plants a while later! Just like roses you give away, they ALWAYS look better in someone else's garden. I never saw Lynnie get as large as she has in Lyn G.'s garden. Little Butterfly has never grown as large for me as it does in jiminshermanoaks' garden. I almost didn't recognize it. When I saw Lauren in his garden, I didn't recognize it. I posted comparative photos on my blog at the link below.

You don't have to disbud Too Cute as my experience is it wants to grow, but it can never hurt. If you can stand doing it, go for it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lauren

FWIW, our friend in Simi Valley says his Sunshine tree rose does GREAT for him, there.

Jeri

Hello Kim: I got interested in Sunshine since you stated it has a sweet scent, but Robert Neil stated mild tea fragrance (which I hate). If "Too Cute" smells better than "Sunshine" with musk plus being more vigorous, then it's a better choice for my zone 5a. I saw that you used Too Cute with Julia Child to make Too Cute Child. I think Jullia Child smells like cough medicine, I wonder how musk and cough medicine together smell like?

There's another yellow mini, Rise n' Shine, hardy to zone 4b, someone stated will grow to 4' x 3'. Jim Sproul stated that Rise n' Shine is a good seed parent. HMF says it has a strong rose, tea fragrance. Anyone know if Rise n' Shine smells like tea, or rose? Thanks for the enlightment....

May be I should wait for "TooCuteChild" to be released. It has swirly OGR many-petals look, vivid pink, absolutely gorgeous. Check out the link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: TooCuteChild rose - deep pink rosette

Hi Stawberryhill, Rise'n Shine isn't terribly fragrant to MY nose. How it will be to yours, I'm sorry, but I don't know. Mr. Moore chose not to breed with Rise'n Shine because it produces pastel to white offspring. Instead, he held back its sister, 1-72-1, which is a short climber and it provides decent yellow colors and brighter, richer colored seedlings than Rise'n Shine. I has some fragrance to my nose, but I can't describe what it's like, other than 'sweet'.

Too Cutechild was quite fragrant as a very young seedling. As it's matured, the petal substance has improved along with flower size and petal count, but the scent has diminished to a mild licorice. It has great flowers and is healthy so far, but isn't proving to be all that vigorous yet. Perhaps once I can get it out of its five gallon can and into the ground, it may improve with age. That requires getting rid of thirty-five to forty of the roses I grow to make room for promising seedlings and will take some time. Even then, I can't promise you this seedling will be released. If it isn't strong enough, it shouldn't be in other gardens. We have enough of THOSE already.

There is a very logical explanation for why Sunshine smells so differently from person to person. First, individual sniffers. Some can smell some scents where others can't and vice versa. Plus, Robert lives in the low desert around Palm Springs. I live just over the hill top from the LA Basin. When it's 99 degrees here, it's often up to 15, even 20 degrees hotter where Robert lives. Probably the only other well known location whose name you might recognize here in Southern California that's hotter than where Robert lives is Death Valley. There are also variations in humidity between us, too. Temperature, humidity and wind (he's MUCH windier than were I am) all work against there being any detectable fragrance in flowers, or even in the perfume you may put on. Hot, dry and windy and all the scent evaporates VERY quickly. Kim

kim would know! thank you for information as always!

Kim, I appreciate the info. I always learn from you, thanks. Hence I'll take the info. about scent given in HMF with a grain of salt. Even Knock-outs smell good in cool and wet fall here.

I'm surprised that TooCuteChild isn't vigorous, considering that Julia Child is a Big Fat Momma at the rose park. She's 4.5' x 4.5'. HMF stated Too Cute can be 4' x 4'. Size doesn't determine vigor in a cross, right? Lynnie is very vigorous with a mini-rose parent, Torch of Liberty.

Too Cute is absolutely stunning with tons-of-blooms. I'm a bit concerned with its being a Noisette. Mike Rivers grows Too Cute in his zone 5b, but I'm colder in zone 5a. I'm quite taken by Too Cute and the musk scent, that I'm fantasizing what minis can cross with Too Cute to produce: Red Too Cute, Mauve Too Cute, Orange Too Cute, and Golden Too cute.... You get the picture!

Thanks to Lyn pointing out that some mini-rose are compact and always blooming, like a small polyantha, I found San Francisco Sunset, fragrant 3" bright orange bloom, 2' x 2' bush. I'll add that to my Burlington order.

Also 100% thornless Irene Marie, yellow/red stripes. And almost thornless fragrant Avandel. Lyn is right about Rainbow's End absolutely stunning color of gold and pink blend. We have humid weather, then all-day rain, which makes Austins grow octopus canes ... I spent yesterday chopping off 5' canes off 1-year old Radio Times, then 3' canes off Evelyn, and 2.5' canes off Charles Darwin and Scepter'd Isle. They are 4-months old babies.

Scentsational mini and Norwich Sweetheart are the two that I enjoy for their fabulous scent, and compact size. If not for the animals eating them, they would be 2' x 2'. Below is a link to ARS Hall of fame, with pics of famous minis.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mini-rose Hall of Fame by American Rose Society

Hi Strawberryhill, thank you! I'm glad. We think alike in quite a few ways. Too Cute is healthy and, as you've seen, can flower like a house afire! I don't know how hardy to expect it to be for your zone. I can report it's being successfully grown in The Netherlands, and US gardens (2) listed as 5a and 5b. Other than that, I don't know.

It's not uncommon to raise weaker seedlings from two vigorous parents. Seedlings are a crap shoot. Too Cutechild was the best of the lot, and it isn't "bad", just taking its time to show what it can do. It may, or may not finally come into its own, or it may even turn out to be a combination which just won't be successful at all. I've pollinated Too Cute with many different roses this summer, but the extreme heat and dry have worked against anything taking on it. If you want to try...good luck! Perhaps the different weather where you are will help it work better! Kim