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Yellow leaf confusion

16 years ago

I have about a dozen potted rose seedlings in my basement. They are in identical conditions to each other except that I changed brands of potting soil about halfway through potting them. Doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, does it? The problem is, 4 of the seedlings have moderate to severe yellowing leaves.

I tried to figure out what the problem is, and read this:

"Before you can try to eliminate the chlorotic condition, you need to look closely at the affected leaves to determine the cause. If a plant is iron-deficient, its newest leaves are more yellow than old ones, and the interveinal areas show chlorosis while the veins remain green. If the chlorosis is a result of oxygen deficiency (as a result of over watering or inadequate drainage), the veins of the leave will be yellow, while the remainder of the leaf is green. You can distinguish chlorosis from nitrogen-deficiency where the old leaves are yellow and the new ones green and the veins are the same color as the rest of the leave."

So now I'm really confused because mine have intervenial yellowing with green veins on the OLD lower leaves (yellow starts at the tips then expands toward the center of the leaf) while the new leaves are green; does not match any of the conditions described above. I guessed that the second brand of potting soil might have had too much fertilizer and too basic of ph, so I tried the quick-fix of watering them with coffee to add acidity. I did that twice but it did not seem to have any effect. I don't think the plants are over-watered because I don't water until the top of the soil is dry to the touch (about 4 days), and then I water them all the same amount, and the other rose seedlings don't have yellowing. I don't think it's likely that they are iron-deficient because where I live the tap water is so full of iron it stains things orange.

General description of the conditions the plants are in: steady temperature of 60-65 degrees, about 14 hours of plentiful artificial light a day. The plant rack does have a persistent problem with fungus gnats, but I thought those only bothered bulbs - could they have damaged the roots of the rose seedlings which have the yellowing problems? And if so, why would it be the newer seedlings which are having problems while the ones a few weeks older are healthy? Oh, and these are rugosa roses if it matters.

So, if anyone has some theories about what the problem is and what I should do to fix it, preferably without repotting, I'd appreciate it. Let me know if you need pictures, but it's pretty simple to describe: the bottom leaves first get a little yellow around the edges, then the yellow creeps in until only the veins are still green, then the leaf dies. All of the plants still have healthy green leaves on the top, and one is producing new green leaves on the bottom where the previous leaves died off.

Comments (10)

  • 16 years ago

    I had this problem outdoors in a new bed I created. I had been watering it with a rain barrel, which previously held common, household strength bleach.

    My error was in thinking that bleach was an acid. It's not. It's about a 13 on the pH scale, totally a base. I screwed up the soil conditions & had to apply ammonium sulfate to the entire area. Within 2 weeks I saw improvement & everything has been peachy since May.

    I did, mind you, do a soil test first before taking any actions to confirm exactly what the error was. This was my DUH moment of 2010. Neither coffee nor coffee grounds are strong enough to correct this problem.

    Although I had washed out the barrel several times, apparently it was possible for enough trace bleach to remain to do damage. Wondering if prior to planting your seedlings if your pots had been washed out with bleach & enough trace remained to do the same kind of harm?
    ---Laura

  • 16 years ago

    The pots were new from the store, I just rinsed them out with water. It's possible they might have gotten laundry detergent or dial antibacterial soap into them since I did the potting in the laundry tub. One of the bags of potting soil may have been mixed wrong since it smelled a little funny, that's why my initial guess was that the problem was caused by too much fertilizer.

  • 16 years ago

    Interveinal chlorosis on lower leaves can be magnesium deficiency, sometimes caused by high pH or excessive calcium. It makes a distinctive "Christmas tree" pattern.

    Don't use coffee, caffeine is phytotoxic. Used grounds are OK. Neither is going to have much effect on pH.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Scroll down to magnesium

  • 16 years ago

    In my limited experience with rugosa cuttings, they very much want a winter dormant period. Since they are very tiny their first winter, this can get tricky.

    Aside from that, it sounds like overwatering. The off potting soil could be much more water retentive, and the bottom of the pot is a swamp after the top has dried out.

  • 16 years ago

    Well, I ended up getting some HollyTone because it was the only thing that was an acidifier and contained magnesium. It probably also contains some counter-productive stuff like more fertilizer though. Anyway, now I'll wait a week or so and see if there's any improvement. If not, I guess I won't have any choice left but to plant them outside.

  • 16 years ago

    You might have spider mites. The next time it is time to water them, take them outside and if you can quirt water on the underside of the leaves real good. My seedlings get yellow leaves too at the bottom, I just take them off and new ones always grow in their place, are they close and touching the soil? If so take them off, you really don't want any bottom leaves touching the soil.

  • 16 years ago

    Also I do want to mention that you do want to get rid of the fungus gnats, the larvae from them eats the roots. I spray the top of the soil with Bayer Insect Spray lightly, and only once should take care of the problem.

  • 16 years ago

    Ugh. So today I inspect my roses, hoping that they will look a bit less yellow; instead I find that the hollytone has sprouted big clouds of white mold. I can't have that in my house, getting blown throughout the rest of the house by the air conditioning. I had already been considering if there was any way I could spray them without getting nasty chemicals in my house. So I decided, the heck with it - I hauled all 20 or so pots out in the back yard, put on my gloves and mask, mixed up a batch of the heavy duty rose and grape spray, and did the pots and all the other plants in the yard that needed it.

    I'll have to leave the pots out there for a few days for the chemicals to subside before I let them back in the house. I hope the wind doesn't knock them over, and if it starts raining I'll have to quick move them to the porch. Meanwhile I have to think of a way to kill off any remaining fungus gnats in the basement so they don't just reinfect the pots.

  • 16 years ago

    Did you check first to see if the soil is too wet beneath the surface?

    And, I wouldn't dream of using a dry organic fertilizer indoors.

  • 16 years ago

    Have you considered watering all the time with a half strength water soluble fertilizer. If you need to make the soil more acid, use something like Miracid. Water solubles are readily absorbed by the plants and don't require the nutrients be broken down by soil organisms like an organic fertilizer. Although they stink, well diluted alfalfa tea or fish emulsion would also make great tonics for your indoor plants. Any of the above would help green up your plants quickly unless there's a soil deficency
    I tried growing rooted cuttings indoors under lights one year, but after fighting mildew and white flies I decided not to anymore.