Well, at least they are being straight with you.

Jeri

I hadn't thought there was a problem between Canada and the US so I'm curious about a "pending directive" and wondered if anyone had heard anything.

I don't know what this is about, but I do know EPA has just unloaded a bunch of new regulations on us, now that the election is over. There could be something in them that would affect shipments of plants going across the border.

Wait until the migratory birds get stopped for gut cleaning and feet dipping at the border. They'll have something to quack about.

You are bad, Ann! LOL!

Thank you, current administration, and this is just the beginning!!

I think it would be a really good thing if we did not start with politics here.

Jeri

My first thought was to wonder if this might have anything to do with the Chinese Long Snout Beetle which has broken out in the warmer climates of Europe. The US, having those types of climates, has already clamped down on importing anything which might carry the pest. We can't import anything greater than 10mm in diameter, INCLUDING the bud union.

Canada does not have as tight restrictions on importation the US does. If you watch, European varieties often appear in Canada about the same time they are introduced in Europe. Hortico, in particular, frequently offers new European varieties as early as the European introducers do. This might well be considering whether the less strict Canadian import regulations might permit some of the newer discovered pests entry to the US through Canada. With the damage this pest has already done in Europe, it doesn't matter whose name is on the "administration". You WANT that kind of diligence if it means we're spared that pest. Kim

Thank you Kim.

As someone who is by nature impatient of authority, I am inclined to bemoan anything that impedes the exchange of rare varieties.

But I live in a county where agriculture is a vital industry, and where the recent arrival of the Asian Citrus Psyllid is an impending disaster.

Sometimes, precautions make sense.

You're welcome, Jeri. I agree and also see it from both sides. I remember "the good old days" when you could order a 36" box, beautiful, mature citrus specimen for a customer. Now, with the psyllid, stock once inspected and passed, MUST be sold to a retail outlet within 24 months of certification or it must be destroyed. The good old days of being able to order mature specimen are over.

Germany is already rejecting material from the US out of fear of RRD. We can't import from countries we've been able to import from for many decades, because they have the Chinese Beetle. It destroys some crops and many ornamentals, roses for one. I'll tell you, I've reached the point where if what I want isn't already right here, I shall do without it. It would kill me to be the one who imported RRD or Chili Thrips. Kim

Kim, are you talking about the Asian Longhorn Beetle or something else? There's quite an article on this insect in wikipedia also.

Here is a link that might be useful: UK article on Asian longhorn beetle

Yes, Gean, I believe that's it. I have to dig out the Import Permit paperwork...wherever that is now, to verify. I was remembering it as Chinese. Thanks for finding it. Kim

Gene, good tidings from Southern Puget Sound.
Whata surprising note from Pickering. If this is all encompassing for orders to the US they have a serious problem. I dare say that they ship more roses to US then to Canadians.In any event I only order Gallica's and Alba's from them as I use the graft to prevent the spreading of the bushes in my garden.
I dont remember if you were gardening here during the Autumn of 2010? That was the year when in late Nov., early Dec the temps for a week were below 6 degrees. The rose bushes had not had any time to harden off. I lost a few rose bushes. Most in this area took heavy losses. We noticed that those that did not survive were grafts or budded. I expect that this weather pattern will certainly repeat itself. So own root only here.
Anyhoo.. Apricot DA roses which grow in my garden:
Abraham Darby...vigorous and a true bloom machine. It's planted in partial shade but is ptotected from valley winds.
Jude the obscure...slow grower. After 2 years it's 2' tall by 1.5' wide. So far the bush is a stingy bloomer. But when it does they are incredible..Frilly petals and a slightly bent position. This bush only gets 6 hs of sun..when we get sun.
Both the above get some BS but not enough to disturb their health. In autumn maybe 10% leaf drop.
A dear old friend was recently singing the praise of Buck roses in this area. So this spring I will be trying Folksinger. She is available from Heirloom. I read that some posters have had problems with Heiroom but I have not. Actually the 2 nurseries which I do the most business with id Rogue and Heirloom...similar growing conditions I thin.
Enough said..the tip on the Buck roses I think is a good one
Jeannie

A few comments. With regard to Heirloom, the management team now in place is terrific and I would encourage anyone who had problems with Heirloom in the past to give them another try.

Re Canada, I too received this message from Pickering. The odd thing, however, is that Palatine and Hortico continue to ship to customers in the U.S., at least so far.

Cliff

I got notice from Hortico that my order has made it to Buffalo, NY as of today. I am hoping then that the Pickering issues are i's and t's, undotted and uncrossed.

Heirloom has 'Summer Wine' and 'Flower Girl' both on my list for next spring to order. I am glad to know Heirloom is doing well. Thanks for the comment.

hi, Jeannie,
I am glad to hear that Buck roses do well in your area. I added ' Winter Sunset' last year because I was so fond of it in the south. I have been thinking about adding 'Quietness' - I had three of them in the south and do like that one a lot too. Glad your Austins do well for you; they sound beautiful! Thanks for the note!

Quietness only gets a tad of BS in the Autumn. It's not as prolific as belinda's dream but the scent is lovely. Enjoy.
Jeannie

Importation - Fraxinea chalara - a nasty disease which is all set to decimate the ash - one of our major woodland trees. When even nurseries themselves have been warning of the dangers of uncontrolled imports of plant material, the governments narrow agenda of promoting business at any cost has backfired spectacularly. It is about time we all stopped this insane belief that money trumps everything and sometimes, we just can't have what we want. We are, after all, not six years old in a tantrum.

"With regard to Heirloom, the management team now in place is terrific and I would encourage anyone who had problems with Heirloom in the past to give them another try."

I appreciate that Cliff, but as far as I'm concerned, Heirloom/Errloom is never gonna get another dime from me, what with the cavalier attitude they showed me in response to the problems I had with their product and service. You can't always recover a customer that you have repeatedly failed to satisfy, and that is that.

" . . . SNIP -- we just can't have what we want. We are, after all, not six years old in a tantrum."

*** So very true.
I'm glad that, at present, I have plenty of new things to try out. There's really only one thing I want -- and if I don't get it I probably won't die of disappointment.

"You can't always recover a customer that you have repeatedly failed to satisfy, and that is that."

*** Yes, it is.
Heirloom "fooled me" over and over again, with mis-labeled plants and rude, rude "customer service."
They may, indeed, be better, now, but LUCKY ME -- I don't need them.

Jeri

Thanks for the heads up Kim. I haven't heard of the Chinese Long Snout Beetle. Also, thanks Cliff for the information on Palatine and Hortico. I personally will never buy from Hortico again. They staggered a large order from me and actually wound up keeping some of my money without fulfilling my order.
Andrew

Trospero and Jerijen . . . Even tho I've been less than pleased with suppliers like, for instance, the current Edmunds' Roses, you're encouraging me to keep on ordering from 'em simply because the FORMER Edmunds' was so terrific, right? Since they were good in the past, they're still good now, REGARDLESS of any changes in administration/ownership??? If I understand you correctly, that's precisely what you're saying. Well -- OK.

For any of you who still can muster even a faint glimmer of hope that redemption is possible, I encourage you to check the current Heirloom Roses site. They're listing a boatload of brand new introductions from the recently closed EuroDesert Nursery. Many (if not most) of new varieties were imported by EuroDesert, and are rare in the U.S. Most, but not all, of them are modern roses -- there are, however, a few choice OGRs that may be of interest to more gardeners than just myself.

Jax. Don't be silly. And don't put words in others mouths.
Order from whom you fancy -- and be sure to report the results. I sincerely wish you well.

Jeri

The citrus pest is a sad thing for CA. It was sent on cuttings from China to relatives who shared it with friends. That is the story I heard. Once you see the damage, it's too late and the tree is on a countdown to death and must be destroyed even if no bugs remain. I wonder how long I will be able to have my beautiful tangerine trees. They make me so happy with the colorful fruit like ornaments during the holidays and the sweet blossoms in springtime. I am always on a nervous lookout for these bugs. I feel for everyone who loses roses to RRD. Inspections are a bother but the consequences are worse.

"Trospero and Jerijen . . . Even tho I've been less than pleased with suppliers like, for instance, the current Edmunds' Roses, you're encouraging me to keep on ordering from 'em simply because the FORMER Edmunds' was so terrific, right?"

Jax's "analogy" wasn't written in terms that made it perfectly clear that it was just an analogy, it was made to sound as if Jeri and I actually said specific things, which we did not.

I will rephrase my comment: the experiences I had with Heirloom from 12 years ago were severe enough that it no longer matters to me what their service and product is like now. The "service" I got back then was so insulting and showed a complete lack of respect for the customer that no amount of coaxing would convince me to "try them again". I received idiotic suggestions from conspicuously ill-trained staff that made Jerry Baker appear positively sage! I am not saying that I think Cliff's comment is in any way inaccurate or untrue, nor do I care to suggest that anyone else avoid buying from them, but I myself will not ever buy from that nursery again. They did not earn my respect, and they had the highest error rate of any nursery I bought from, in terms of selling correctly labeled plants. I should also point out that several of the most conspicuously virused plants I ever acquired came from them, which I find inexcusable when viewed in context of their policy on virus. Yes, yes....I'm sure they have addressed all of these issues, but I just don't care. They don't get any more chances, and that is that.

This post was edited by trospero on Fri, Nov 30, 12 at 18:51

Abstract concepts apparently aren't universally understood.:P

Melissa

:P

I didn't think it was all that abstract, but -- OWELL.

Jeri :-)

This is kind of silly because trospero and jerijen are entitled to whatever opinions they have about rose vendors. I'd thought we'd come to a consensus that we don't flame vendors, but apparently not.

To translate jax's analogy, he is saying that if you refuse to purchase from a vendor because it has "done you wrong" in the past, that's analogous to saying that if it was perfect in the past, you should continue to purchase from it, regardless of its present behavior. The point being, how a company is now is what's important.

There's something else, too, Gean.

I figure -- rose vendors are run and staffed by people, and people are pretty imperfect. I sort of expect all of them to make mistakes. The Good Lord Knows -- WE sure do.

I think, when they disappoint us, there's an opportunity there to see how they deal with it. And most of them, in my experience, are willing to go an extra mile to "make it right."

I did learn early on not to make the mistake of idly telling a vendor that a plant died. Standing in Sequoia Nursery, I made the mistake of remembering that I needed a new 'Sweet Chariot' to replace one that had died.

Despite my vigorous protests that it had died through my own inattention to watering -- neither Carolyn or Mr. Moore would allow us to leave without TWO new plants of 'Sweet Chariot,' for which they would not accept payment. THAT was embarrassing!

Jeri

I think Jeri is right when she says responding to an error indicates the quality of the people running the outfit. Over the course of years there were various people swearing that Michigan Bulb had finally reformed; and each and every time it was incorrect, because there was no desire on the part of management to supply excellent service other than verbally, but rather the least possible with the least mitigation of customer losses. I am reminded of the acolyte of J&P who actually believed the nonsense written in their catalogs and websites; it must have been a painful process to discover it was all make-believe.

Jimd

" I am reminded of the acolyte of J&P who actually believed the nonsense written in their catalogs and websites; it must have been a painful process to discover it was all make-believe."

You mean Mermaid ISN'T thornless? "William" from J&P Customer Service (the acolyte) certainly thought so because J&P's "rose experts" proclaimed it so. Kim

Thanks, Harborrose, for the satisfaction of knowing that SOMEONE grasped the gist of what I wrote in my initial post here.

Ms. Jennings and Mr. Barden, let's get real. Regardless of how you two now choose to recast your words or mine -- or of how silly you may think you aren't and I am, Jeri -- the fact is that you are determined to steadfastly maintain a highly negative opinion of Heirloom Roses forevermore. Would you agree with that, Jeri, or are those still more words I'm forcing into others' mouths?

By posting negative comments here, you are discouraging (at least tacitly) as many people as you possibly can from purchasing plants from a vendor that apparently did you great wrong at some point in the distant past (more than a decade ago in Paul's case). I understand that it is of NO relevance to either of you that the parties who so aggrieved you all those years ago are now long gone. If the operation carries the name "Heirloom Roses" it's got your implacable seal of disapproval -- then, now, and umpteen years from now. In your views, case closed. And that is (as Paul stated so emphatically above) THAT. Got it.

I can't believe that it's only my meager purchases that are keeping Heirloom afloat. Might there be others here who have purchased from Heirloom sometime within the current decade, AND who are actually satisfied customers? In recent months on these forums, we've bemoaned the steady loss of vendors. Small wonder so many have bitten the dust. If one changes course, makes radical management/staffing changes, strives diligently to improve service, enhances inventory, etc. -- and it all adds up to a big fat ZERO due to the dissemination of carefully nurtured ancient grievances, vague comparisons to Michigan Bulb, etc., then what's the use?

All the foregoing is the exercise of personal opinion. I neither seek nor expect agreement from anyone. I am, however, going now to seek the morning's first cup of coffee. (Note to self: Coffee BEFORE Gardenweb.)

Hahahaha Jaxondel, I too have to watch my mouth if it's too early in the morning. Never later in the day.

I will check out Heirloom's new inventory. I got some good looking plants from them earlier this year. No problems whatsoever.

I think it's nice that people want to be a good customer as much as they want good customer service and good products. It's a mutual exchange.

@Jax: I have to wonder how forgiving you would be after purchasing numerous roses, several of which turned out to be conspicuously infected with RMV, from a nursery that touted themselves as the source for virus free plants?

I never got bad plants or service there. I saw they had Chandos Beauty and it made me remember the beautiful picture of a big bed in full bloom that someone posted on a white roses thread here. Heirloom's picture isn't as pretty as the one I saw here. I love the white roses with pale pink in the center and a nice fragrance would make it even better. Some of the roses bred by Heirloom have not been great bloomers but some turned out to be magnificent such as Peach Silk which is one of my best plants.

I love the blooms of Heirloom's 'Louise Clements' even though the bush itself has been so slow to get going. I've wondered if it might do better grafted onto something. Their selection of Cliff's Eurodesert roses is very enticing, including 'Chandos' - I saw that picture posted here of a bed of that rose also.

I'm going to have to learn to graft I think, especially if my sources of multiflora grafted plants disappear. My Hortico order arrived last night, though. Beautiful plants as far as I can tell.

Wow... what a hardship for Pickering!!!!I'm glad I live in Canada so I still can get reliable plants. I'll purchase a few even if I have no room,
and give them to friends....

Kitty, I was glad to hear you mention Peach Silk. I got one years ago....it is doing well.....I was able to get a couple last spring, they are potted and growing really well - looking forward to planting them before spring. Glad to see someone else appreciating this lovely rose!
Judith

As a follow-up, today I went to the Pickering site. They are still unable to ship to the USA. I hope they can survive. With Vintage closing, they are one of the chief sources of European OGRs remaining to us.

Rosefolly

As a follow-up, today I went to the Pickering site. They are still unable to ship to the USA. I hope they can survive. With Vintage closing, they are one of the chief sources of European OGRs remaining to us.

Rosefolly

I always had friendly and excellent service from Heirloom -- even 12 years ago -- and, if you asked, they often had rarities not listed in the catalog (unlike some, which tantalizingly list things they don't have and apparently never intend to have).They were among the first to pioneer own root cuttings.

It is true their plants were small and expensive -- but at least they sent them in a timely manner and before it got too hot here for them to survive, which has not been my experience with some other vendors, even when I expressly ordered early.

Monarda, there used to be something wrong with Heirloom's procedures such that they had a high rate of mislabelling compared to other vendors. (Hence "Errloom"). Maybe that is all in the past. I am glad they have survived John's death and appear to be viable.

The issue Michael referred to was the same issue retailers have dealt with since the beginning of "shelf labeling". When products are priced individually, it doesn't matter how they're moved around on the shelves, as their pricing moves with them. When the SHELVES are labeled with no pricing on the products, moving them without moving the labels, results in confusion and miss pricing. There are laws in place preventing the public from being deliberately cheated using these issues.

Reports from friends who visited them regularly at that time were that Heirloom didn't label the individual flats. They placed the name of the variety on the shelf the flat was placed on. When flats were moved, often the names were not, resulting in some serious misidentifications. Fortunately, that practice was corrected, but it took some time for them to admit the errors and fix them. Kim

While Pickering not being able to ship to the US is bad news for those south of the boarder it has been good news for me.

I have not been actively replacing roses for several years. This spring year I decided late that it was time to become active again. In the past Pickering always shipped to me in early April which is too early, and it was impossible to make an order in May.

I placed my order for about twenty plants a couple of weeks ago and it will be delivered this week. The late supply from Pickering has allowed me to prepare my garden and I am looking forward to sticking the roses in as soon as they arrive. I'm getting pretty excited.