Hi Dawn

Fragrances are very interesting, and as far as I can remember I like Fragrant Cloud. I don't know how to explain it; it's almost too strong, but only almost. It's strong, light, sweet and fresh to me, all at the same time.

My favorite rose smell are roses like Souvenir du Docteur Jamain, Empereur du Maroc and Charles Lefebvre. These are a must to explore for those who are into rose-fragraces. I also like albas very much. Some hybrid teas like La France and Ophelia have to me exceptionally good fragrance; very light, fresh and uplifting.

I like strong heavy rose fragrance like Rose de Resht, Comte de Chambord, Gertrude Jekyll too. Very think, almost intoxicating. Is there a trace if this in FC? Unfortunately I don't have any way to investigate this until next year. Fragrances are hard to remember.

I cannot say I like the foetida-smell, but to me they are not really that bad. They have a sort of thick, dull smell, a bit yeasty. They are not pleasant, I don't enjoy putting my nose in the flower, but I would happily grow them some where in my garden. I cannot find any trace of this smell in Fragrant Cloud. I also grow Soleil d'Or, which has rosa foetida as one of the parents, and I cannot find a trace of foetida smell from it. To me Soleil d'Or has very good fragrance.

There is another smell in roses that is a bit peculiar like arvensis splendens, Belle Isis, Constance Spry. It is thick and heavy, too much some times, but to me not entirely bad. Some compare it to myhrr but I come to think of the heavy smell of Magnolias (which I do not like). Do you recognize any trace of this smell in FC? To me FC is much lighter and fresher.

To my nose it is like 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' with the volume turned up.

To my nose the fragrance of FC is nearly identical to 'Geranium Red', which is interesting because the color is very close to 'Geranium Red' as well. Flower forms is very different.

But of course, every nose is different. If you don't like it, you don't like it--nothing wrong with that!

'Double Delight' to me has a strong chemical type of fragrance. Like the way Diet Coke tastes. Yet I love both 'Double Delight' and Diet Coke.

Non disputandem est! :)

If I remember Fragrant Cloud (and it's been many years since I smelled it) it was sort of a sharp fresh smell,like walking into a florist, not particularly pleasing. But fragrance is fascinating, how much it differs from time to time, depending on time of day or season, and from person to person. David Austin always sounds so proud to have his roses smell like myrrh, but what does myrrh smell like exactly? I know my New Dawn (though I think it may actually be the fully double sport Awakening that I have) gets a very odd odor once in a while that is a very exotic Eastern sort of a smell, spicy but also a little soapy, I wonder if that is myrrh? Mary Rose smells like a plastic band aid to me, but Winchester Cathedral is not that bad--and I get them on the same bush! I love Golden Celebration's smell and I can really smell the wine smell DA talks about, but none of my friends or family can smell it. Smells like "rose" to them. Trying to describe smells is pretty tricky.

I'm a fragrance hound, and tend to collect fragrant roses. Way back in the day when I was originally researching roses, I resisted getting Fragrant Cloud b/c I thought it had a weird fragrance at the places I saw it growing. I eventually got it, and love it very much, but sometimes it has that weird fragrance. Most of the time it has a fabulous fragrance, but it definitely has a certain tone sometimes that I don't like so much. I can't describe what that is. The closest thing I can describe is the fragrance of Secret, that I sometimes don't like, but sometimes do. I know that's not much help! But there is a definite tone with these two roses that sometimes rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps it's the same chemical component of the overall fragrance blend.

To differ from what Hoov said, I don't think that Fragrant Cloud is anything like SDLM in fragrance. But Geranium Red might have some of that same component in it that FC has.

How each of us perceive fragrance, and the differences in what we perceive is so interesting to me! My personal faves tend to be damask-ish, but I love a lot of them with a citrus tone or tea tone. This is something that needs more research :-D

Susan

A side track but: Myhrr is a resin from a tree and there is a purified version of it that still is used in old fashion cough syrups and drops. I am quite shore most people are familiar with it when they think about it.

what does myrrh smell like exactly?

If you have a store around you that sells a good selection of incense you can find out first hand. I have it and it's a very strong scent (I cough if the incense in the room is too concentrated). It has a heavy quality to it. There's also something "sharp" about the scent, although that isn't its primary feature. (I'm not very good at describing scents unfortunately.)

I have smelled one or two of Austin's "myrrh scented" roses. I can sort of connect the scents if I use my imagination, but I have to use my imagination. There's no question the myrrh scent in his roses (that I've smelled) is different from what I usually encounter when sniffing a rose. There's something heavy about the scent, but his roses still smell like roses. They still mostly smell sweet to me (as most roses do).

I don't have many roses. I do have Fragrant Cloud and love its fragrance, but I don't know how to describe it, nor what I ought to compare it to.

To my nose, Fragrant Cloud has a heavy clove fragrance. Yesterday, my daughter and a girlfriend were visiting and I presented them with the following scented roses that were blooming in my garden for comparison: The McCartney Rose, Perfume Delight, Pope John Paul II, Lasting Love, French Lace, Crimson Glory, Sutter's Gold, and Fragrant Cloud. My daughter chose to take home pope John Paul II and Perfume Delight. Her girlfriend latched on to Fragrant Cloud and walked out the door with her nose in the flower.

I agree with Curlydoc. Fragrant Cloud has that touch of clove in it but even more so it smells like orange rind intensity. And I cook rose petal jam with Fragrant Cloud and boy does it punch a kicker (tastes like ultra sweet orange-cinnamon)! However! Fragrant Cloud only carries about 2' away (you can smell it at that distance) whereas you take one Lincoln and you can smell that one Lincoln blossom 8'-15' away. Only when Lincoln blooms do the bees start coming to my garden.

When visiting other rose gardens, I enjoyed Tiffany, New Zealand, Frederick Mistral, but theirs have a very pretty smell. Honey-sweetness I call it, from the "honey-family". New Zealand and Frederick Mistral have more of a perfume powdery smell though, more duskier whereas Tiffany is more appley.

Lincoln is by far the strongest smelling rose (per one bloom) that I have ever smelled. And I still love his fragrance the best out of all roses I have encountered. It is the ultimate Chanel No. 5 I call it. No other matches it. It is a true perfume-distilled and one can't describe it because it is the ultimate rose smell, very rich deep and velvety. But granted I only test it against the common Austins. I have never smelled any truly rare, Antique roses. However I suspect that some OGRs may smell like my Penny Lane. My Penny Lane rose when it is past maturity looks like an OGR and its blooms last a super-long time-It has a beautiful sweet Gardenia scent-I've never smelled a Gardenia-smelling rose ever! so perhaps OGRs smell like this? I think it's a real shame that OGR people don't visit our regular Rose forum. It could really open our eyes to more fragrances!

Austin roses are sometimes myrrh-clovish. But more commonly they are fresh and light in aroma- more fruity-light, very pleasing, but no not heavy with intense intonations. I found one Agnes Rugosa that smelled as lovely and light as any! Austin! A beautiful rose-- I just loved Agnes and it taught me to start thinking about rugosas.

Unlike HoovB I always thought Double Delight bright and sweet and lovely-natural, not chemical. If you want a chemical-smelling rose, HoovB, try my Aromatherapy rose! J&P's so-called most fragrant rose. It maintains its cut fragrance for a super long time, but man! it does smell like a manufactured perfume. It has strong fragrance, but it is also heavy like artificial fruit, and!!! strangely it never carries or wafts in the breeze. At the garden, Double Delight did not waft in the breeze either. So again, a strongly fragranced rose may not waft in the breeze. All strongly fragranced roses are not created equal.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that no one has mentioned Zephirine Drouhin....

I have never smelled any truly rare, Antique roses

It's a big shrub and not what I would call "shapely" (it reminds me that at the end of the day roses are briars), but the leaves of the sweetbriar (Rosa eglanteria) smell like green apples. The scent is particular noticeable downwind when there is water (rain or dew) evaporating from the leaves. I am certain that if I had the right space for such a big shrub I would be growing it!

An antique rose I have grown (& would love to grow again someday if I ever get land of my own) that is "must smell" is Maiden's Blush. Sheer, pure sweetness!!! :)

(In the shade Maiden's Blush isn't white. It's pale pink with no hint of either yellow or purple. An old French name for it translates as "Nymph's thigh". That about describes the sort of pink it is.)

If I was to recommend roses to someone who wanted to explore rose-fragrances I would recommend a few from every class, as they are distinctly different.

I think it is possible to trace the fragrance of Hybrid Teas like Mr Lincoln, General MacArthur, Etoile de Holland, Chrysler Imperial and Crimson Glory to a few bourbons and hybrid perpetuals. I think Gruss an Teplitz and General Jacqueminot are related to them all in some way.

If it is the clover notes in the fragrance you don't agree with Dawn, try to compare with Rose de Resht, which has a strong damask fragrance with lots of clove like scent. Most of the hybrid teas that are described as having damask type fragrance are lighter and the clover like notes are not there. I don't know if all here would agree with me on this point, but it is as close as I can get to describe it.

My FC has a sort of spicey fragrance. I like it but fragrance is a very personal thing. There are some roses that are supposed to be very fragrant that I can't seem to smell at all and others that people say have no fragrance that I think do. My favorite rose fragrace would be Reine des Violettes. I can smell her from 6 feet away. Yum!

My Fragrant Cloud seems to have a bloom for me when others don't so I think I appreciate that it has any fragrance. If you know what I mean? Because when I think about it, it doesn't have the best fragrance. Kind of a bold, not soapy (yuck) and spicy, yet unique to itself smell. Beautiful blooms for sure.

As an aside, I hate when I give in to smelling refrigerated roses. There is always that underlying mildew (probably from fridge system) reek. They are so pretty, then awwww not fair, ruined my smeller! lol

Allison

That is very true Allison, the few times I have had florist roses in the garden they smell light but very good, and something happens when we by them as cutflowers.

I have also noticed how some roses "go bad" towards autumn when it gets too cold and wet for them. When I have flowers on Christmas eve some don't smell that good, others are just fine. I remember Alfred Colomb in particular, most of the time it has very good fragrance, but under some circumstances it changes.

"And I cook rose petal jam with Fragrant Cloud and boy does it punch a kicker"

Serena, can you post your Fragrant Cloud rose petal jam recipe? I would like to try it. Sounds so good.

Curlydoc so sorry about the delay in my response! What's so fantastic about Fragrant Cloud is that it is a prolific bloomer and if you happen to get one of those soggy rainy days in which the huge blooms are too heavy and nod over, you can make lots of rose petal jam.

I actually gourmet-cook like the Iron Chef or Chopped on the Food Network, LOL!

A lot of testing, improvisational, fly-by-the-strings of my apron, LOL!

What I did was combine two separate recipes. One from Ehow and the other from the back-label instructions from a standard fruit pectin box which in my case was Sure-Jell.

Here is the Ehow recipe. I will later explain what I did differently.

All the preliminary preparations I did with the Ehow in terms of rinsing, cutting out the white base the petals, and presoaking the petals with sugar. However I never used my fingers but just thoroughly stirred them.

initial Ehow Recipe

I had no lemons on me. Instead I used the packaged fruit pectin which called for anywhere from 4-7 cups of water depending on the fruit. I decided to go with 5-1/2 cups of water. Same thing with the sugar. Instructions called anywhere from 5-7 cups. I used 5 cups since rose petals are so light. I used about 3 cups of Fragrant Cloud petals.

The cooking time I completely invented. I first dissolved the sugar on low heat, brought it to a gentle simmer then as soon as it simmered I dumped the petals in. I stirred here and there for about 10 more minutes, then dumped in the entire pectin package and cooked for another 20 minutes on medium heat with a very slow steady rolling boil. I then sort of panicked because I thought hmmm, why is this so liquidy still? So I cooked it for another 10 minutes just to be on the safe side which thickened it just a little more to my liking. I then poured the entire mix into a glass bowl and let it cool. Note it will still be quite liquidy, but that is o.k.! Once you stick it into the refrigerator, it will start to set real good. Within 2 days it will reach that pure jelly stage! From my experience if you decide to cool it into separate little decorative jars the set time will actually be shorter. I just leave it the larger glass bowl, because I actually use that jelly not just for sweet spreads but also as a hint of flavorings to certain pork marinades. I like the combination of hot, savory meats and will use that rose petal jam in certain spiced dishes as well. Another example is glazed chicken. I will use just a tablespoon of that Fragrant Cloud jam with Rosemary and bourbon. Rose petal jam can also be combined with certain almond, nut pastes for certain dessert fillings as well. The combinations are Endless!

Bon appetit!

Thanks Serena, I tried the Ehow recipe at: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Rose-Petal-Jam

I only had one big Fragrant Cloud bloom at the height of its bloom, so I used less than one cup of petals. That caused me to cut everything down by one-fourth, one cup water, one-half cup sugar, one-half lemon. I first cut the white ends of the petals, washed them, covered petals with sugar, "bruised" them by squeezing, and let sit in the frig for two days. While heating the mixture, a very pleasant rose scent wafted through the kitchen. I forgot to do the last five minutes of boiling, so a day later, the jam is more like a syrup. I will wait for another day, but I've already sipped the syrup and put a teaspoon in my coffee. It makes a great rose-flavored sweetener!

Well, I am so glad you are liking the jam-syrup. I keep having to use the pectin because on both occasions I had no lemon on me. Pectin firms up very quickly though.

Interestingly Lincoln petals are far more subtle, they do not have the kick that Fragrant Cloud does. But then I used a bloom that was not in its prime and had already started to fade out, LOL! I am too stingy to use a real prime Lincoln bloom. LOL! but really I do think there is an actual difference in the aroma of that jelly. Fragrant Cloud very orangy and a bit of clove, very distinct. Lincoln's fragrance is too delicate. Three days ago I used one Lincoln bloom, handfuls of dried cherries and 8 fresh strawberries to make that pectin jam. I could still taste Lincoln but it was very subtle, not the pow of Fragrant Cloud, LOL! But Lincoln in real life has the stronger fragrance because it actually wafts in the breeze but it is far weaker when it is cooked.

I can't wait for the next jelly, yum, yum, yum! Curly doc, rose jelly is also so tasty with plain vanilla bean ice cream. So delicious!