Have you seen it bloom?

Can you get photos of leaves, stipules, canes?

Plantier's leaves are quite distinctive.

Jeri

Mme Plantier has small, pale, awl-shaped thorns, not a whole lot of them. Mme Hardy does have flowers of similar form but is thornier. The leaves are coarser if I recall correctly. I don't have Mme. Hardy in my own garden.

Check out 'Madame Legras de St. Germain', a very nice white & not many thorns. I worked with one in a public garden years ago, really liked the blooms & was definitely a visitor favorite when in bloom.

It was too dark for a good photo by the time I was ready to take pictures...but I will take some of the cuttings I have

The leaves are in 5's with an occasional tiny more round 6th leaf. They are bright green and rather long with almost a wine red edge on some. But these leaves are all new this year from the cuttings, the mother plant has more medium green.

The flowers are in sprays, smaller, double, white with a bit of pink and a once bloomer. I will bring scissors and try to cut another cane this week.

I grow Armide (which is suppossedly the same rose) and it is almost thornless. Like Michael said, the few that it does have are small. Really great rose overall.

Tammy

If the leaves have a wine-red edge, that doesn't sound like 'Mme. Plantier.' Nor does a "rather long" leaf.

If you're thinking it could have been an old rootstock plant, the other pale-colored rootstocks are pinky-white Odorata, and pink Manetti.

If you go to HelpMeFind, Cass Bernstein has uploaded excellent detail photos of Manetti. Cass and others have done the same for R. odorata. These are relatively common rootstocks in CA.

Of course, what you have may NOT be rootstock. :-)

Jeri

I actually want the thorns. Almost the more the merrier. I wish I had put the roses in last weekend as the person who helps themselves to the persimmons showed up today. Mom was home and let her come pick a few for $20, but the lady left with our some of our pumpkins for thanksgiving pies, one of the extra big butternut squash and the giant pomegranate I have been watching for months to get to the perfect stage of ripe..... I bet she would have come yesterday had it not been raining and I was back and forth over at moms.

Madame Plantier will get huge. Think rambler. A gazillion slender canes, each one throwing out long limber branches. I love this rose but I don't look forward to pruning it.

I agree with rosefolly - Madame Plantier is a noisette-type rambler and is best trained as such - though I have seen that many people prefer to just let if become an uncontrolled sprawl on the ground (but to each their own:) There is little of the Damask about her.

Most plants that I have seen in real life and photos of Madame Legras are, in fact, Madame Plantier. The 'real' one is very definitely a woody shrub, not a rambler.

Madame Hardy is also a thorny shrub with a much more complex and larger flower and distinct button eye.

Skippy -- if that's what you need, plant 'Alba Odorata.'

Jeri

Wierd...my Madame Hardy, obtained from Heirloom years ago, is almost thornless. So is my young Madame Plantier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Madame Plantier blog on Garden Musings.

Well -- the 'Prosperity' we bought from Heirloom turned out to be something else, which was never identified.

The Marie Pavie we bought from Heirloom ALSO turned out to be another rose, quite unidentifiable. They accounted for the discrepancy by saying that THEIR Marie Pavie had more petals than the usual one, and was thus superior.

At the time, we were showing roses fairly regularly, and a rose that looked nothing like what it was supposed to be just didn't work for us.

That sort of thing was one of the reasons we quit ordering from Heirloom.

I suppose you could say that my position is illogical, since I have no problem with Found Roses grown under study names -- but it's not at all the same thing, to me.

Jeri

Not at all, one is a 'known unknown' and sold as such, and one is SUPPOSED to be something which it is not, and THEN the seller blows you off... I agree, not the same thing at ALL. I'd be furious too.

A few photos of my unknown, once blooming white climber

These are both new canes off the spring time cuttings. I cut a cane off of the mother plant, it was not much thicker than this one, but I think had bloomed this year and was more green with out the red edging. But not that much thicker of a cane

Kippy -- please tell me where it came from, and tell me what the bloom is like. I'd like to know what the stipule is like, as well.

Jeri

Jeri, I will have to wait on spring for the bloom. It is a once bloomer that has been growing on the back side of a church-small white pink edged sprays. It crawls over the 6 foot fences and is at least that wide-but no idea how big it would get if allowed. Some one might have planted it or it might be some long forgotten plant that the rootstock took over. The church was built in the 60's but it was an older area was redeveloped in the early 50's.

I really do not know what the property was before the 50's. It is in an area that a small creek might have run past before the development, I know that across the street the ball fields area part of a flood plain and I remember the news covering a few forgotten grave sites just up the hill from there (near Juvenal hall) And I think there used to be an old stage coach stop about the same area as the old graveyard (the building burnt down in one of the fires years ago) There has been a lot of road work and development in that area (Hollister Ave) that changed drainage and properties.

Kippy -- Take a look at this, and see if it might be what you have. The foliage you show looks correct, and I know that this has been found in that area, because they have it in the Mission Huerta Garden as having been collected up there.

Jeri

Jeri,

I think if not held in her space she would have a form very similar to that. But the blooms are more white, much smaller and in sprays. (if I remember correctly)

The color intensity is variable. This is growing in a lot of shade, and the blooms are darker than most. At our house, it was very pale. At one time, we had three of this, so I got to know it very well.

This is R. odorata rootstock -- you find it all over the place.

Here's another -- this one was collected at Rancho San Julian, and is growing in the Mission Huerta Garden.

Jeri

Kippy, I know this is a very old thread, and I'm not sure whether you visit the forum much these days, but I was wondering whether you saw your cuttings bloom? I just received a Mme Plantier that looks somewhat similar to yours...red new stems with lots of red prickles, red-edged pointed leaves. No hint of Alba ancestry to my eyes, and definitely not Mme Plantier. Mine did bloom and have a yellow cast to the blooms. Here are some photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uV6FC6aySwfdAJ7u8

Let's see whether Houzz will let me upload photos today...

I agree, Cathy, and that's a gorgeous one in your photo! I'm a big fan of the Alba class...the healthy blue-green leaves, the green canes, the scent like perfume. I just don't appear to have received an Alba here... certainly not Mme Plantier. In looking to see whether there were any rootstock roses masquerading as Mme Plantier, I came across this old thread and thought I'd try to get an update from Kippy.

John, is your "Not-a-MP" from RVR? I got one, too. Mine is a "Not-a-Celeste". Carol

Carol, it came from The Greenhouse Nursery in Grants Pass. They've been in business for a while but just started selling roses this year, so I wanted to support them. They sent great plants, but this one was clearly not an Alba. I reached out to them, and they determined there was a mixup with the cuttings they received from UC Davis...so the rose I received is actually Gruss an Aachen. Not a rose I intended to grow again so soon. In my last garden, it only retained its leaves about 25% of the summer...but to its credit, that didn't stop it from blooming. I'm going to try growing this one in a pot and will see if it likes that better than competing with other plants in the garden.