Fig, after a post in this vein, it doesn’t feel very good that you stopped mid sentence.

Judi, I'm seeing a complete sentence at the end: "We are a community, and a community only thrives into the future when knowledge is passed on.".

But I hope you were just expressing concern that I might be the one who passed on, lol. But no, that's how I intended to end my post.

Waste is one of the facts of the world, unfortunately. I know that's not a comforting thing to say. You just have to hope that people will come along to learn, and with the energy and sense of organization to put down what they know, and to share it, one way or another, with others. And live with the good of what you have.

When I think of the knowledge contained in the brain only, not recorded anywhere, just retained in the mind of a brilliant person in any subject, an individual being beyond expert in their field, that dies with them when their body dies, it boggles my mind.

Moses.

“ We are a community, and a” … that’s how your post ends for me on my Houzz app. Maybe another Houzz
trick? Anyway, good to know you hadn’t passed on midway through your sentence! :)

@judijunebugarizonazn8 Thanks for your concern. If I'd actually thought to trail off without ending my sentence it actually would have been an effective way to drive home my point, lol. But no, for the time being, you guys are stuck with me.

Saving this thread.
Fig, I really agree with everything you said, soo much knowledge that is EXTREMELY important and priceless could one day be all gone.

And this forum is great but even then how long is this app going to be around?

I hope to collect many many rare things and learn this knowledge because one day it may not be easily found.

-Ian Stewart

Ian, the forum is a good place to start, but it's easy to be a passive sponge, just because you don't know what you don't know, so you can't even ask the right question, lol. I recommend going back through old posts, going back as far as you can. Read any post that piques your interest. Then read some that don't! Houzz no longer archives the oldest threads, so yeah, we've already lost that. You might be able to find older threads (i.e. GardenWeb, pre-Houzz) on the Wayback Machine.

But to really get down to the nitty gritty, you'll have to start a library of rose books. Look for books by Brent Dickerson, Anne Belovich, Suzy Verrier, Graham Thomas, The Tea Ladies (Tea Roses: Old Roses for Warm Gardens), Charles Quest-Ritson, Peter Beales. That's just off the top of my head. If you need an exhaustive list of titles, I'll do my best, but I'm sure there a many, many that I don't have that others can recommend.

@Ian Stewart: Zone 6 Western Kentucky, USA unfortunately, for many varieties, the day they are no longer easily found has come. MANY once easily obtained roses are simply gone. No nursery sources, no garden sources, just gone. Many long-listed gardens on HMF are also gone. I've researched many roses in many gardens. I've researched many of the gardeners listed as I've been able. MANY haven't been on HMF in over a year. MANY have public obituaries connected with their names and locations and when addresses are available, Google Maps images and Zillow listings show no roses at the most local images and Zillow shows property sales within the last time indicated of their HMF participation.

Spreading rarities around has always had its dangers...Japanese Beetles, Brown Apple Moth, RRD, etc. and none of those are gone but now we also have Chilli Thrips and Heaven knows what else.

For anyone wanting the "old knowledge", I would strongly urge you to obtain every edition of the ARS Annuals from the 1920s (they started in 1916, but didn't contain AS much history and discoveries until the twenties) until about 1990. The later ones are "OK", but don't contain NEARLY the history of the earlier ones. And, you can often find them at outrageously inexpensive prices now. Old rose books, not the coffee table picture books, but the meaty ones containing history and discoveries are well worth their prices (also relatively inexpensive these days compared to years ago) and time to read them. Memory, even sharp ones, are fallible. Reading the writings of the ones who experienced, explored, discovered and lived the history then passing them around to the next "generation".

Agreed, @fig_insanity Z7b E TN! To your list, I'd add Roses by Jack Harkness (Dent, 1977); Rose Growing Complete by E.B. LeGrice (the later paper back edition rather than the 1960s hard cover as it contains MUCH more information); The Complete Rosarian by Norman Young; My Life With Roses, Harry Wheatcroft, 1959: Papa Floribunda: the Gene Boerner Story; A Life in Roses by Alain Meilland; Roses From Dreams to Reality, the Herb Swim Story: and many others I have to dig around in the garage to rediscover, but that must wait for health challenges to be dealt with.

@roseseek Thanks Kim. Now everyone can SEE why I've been name-dropping you, lol. There are a couple of the books you mentioned that I haven't read, and now have to go on an Easter egg hunt.

Edit: or is it a unicorn hunt?

You're welcome, John. Unfortunately, probably a unicorn hunt. SHOP, there are many opportunists out there attempting to "make their fortunes" on them, but there can be bargains if you look diligently enough.

Thank you Fig_insanity,
Those book recommendations are going to my list. And you couldn't be more right.

Kim, I wasn't alive in those times but how amazing it would have been to know that most varieties were offered by X amount of nurseries. Old garden roses are hard enough to find and when you do find some they are either out of stock or offered by a place out of your country.

As for diseases, this is a big one. RRD is very easily spotted..Usually, some..and when I mean Some varieties Can have RRD but show no symptoms. I have not dealt with any others of the ones you listed except for Japanese beetles. They are a pain but at least with my climate they only last a month or 2..Max.

Thank you both for the information.

Oh, and for anyone that doesn't know about 'Rose Hybridization Association' that place is a gold mine for information. I'm sure most of you here already know but for anyone that doesn't or is new I highly recommend checking that out. Kim Rupert knows more about it than I do

I really miss Vintage Roses and have donated to their preservation organization. I think the Belovich roses also have an organization preserving her roses. Thankfully, these people are helping.

OTOH, there are the destroyers like those who decimated the Sacramento City Cemetery.

I think the small specialty nurseries are treasures for keeping some of the old varieties alive.

As much as Houzz is irritating at times, I am really grateful that I can connect with all you people and learn so much.

Alexander roses is part of this. Belovich Ramblers.

@roseseek I’m glad you mentioned Harry Wheatcroft — such a character. His book is a great read. I’d also include Ralph’s book, All About Miniature Roses (https://tlcfocus.com/paulbarden/ralphmoore/contents/index.html), which documents many important phases of his career as a breeder. one of these days I should reformat the book as a pdf that can be downloaded and saved.

Paul, please do work on Ralph's book. Ralph has always fascinated me, but I've never seen the book. I'd love to read it. I'm sure others would be grateful for the chance.

John

@fig_insanity Z7b E TN John, the book is there at the link I provided, for you to read as html pages. The convert-to-pdf comment was about reformatting it for people to download and save a copy for convenience. Thanks.

Graham Stuart Thomas' "rose trilogy", now combined in the Graham Stuart Thomas Rose Book, is also a wealth of history and information.... AS LONG AS you don't permit yourself to be deceived by his admonitions that his favorites in mid to late Twentieth Century BRITAIN are "perfect" for everywhere in every climate as too many of us painfully discovered several decades later in climates significantly hotter and drier than anything Mr. Thomas ever imagined. But, the history and descriptions contained in their pages are worth reading and passing to future generations.

Gwen Fagan's Roses at the Cape of Good Hope is a worthy read. The Charm of Old Roses by Nancy Steen is also worth reading. And, yes, follow Paul's link to Mr. Moore's writings. Whether you're intrigued with miniatures or not, he successfully created an entire industry by creating this mini marvels. He also successfully used them as "bridges" through which to drag mossing, crested sepals, stripes and even Hulthemia's "blotch" into larger modern roses. I wouldn't suggest anyone today to follow his lead as far as the specific roses he used are concerned as there are most likely tremendously healthier varieties which may produce similar results now more readily available, but study his method and synthesize your own program if you want to dabble in creating your own rose visions.

Susan Irvine rose books are wonderful too. Australia has more in common with my area than the British Isles. The Gwen Fagan book is so romantic too.

Gwen Fagan was, in many ways, like a modern Constance Spry (whose book, Favorite Flowers, is magnificent!) a renaissance woman. Highly accomplished, marvelously creative and a delight to read.

I have "Roses at the Cape of Good Hope" by Gwen Fagan, and books by many of the other authors mentioned above. I like reading books by people who grow roses which originated in the UK or Europe in Australia, South Africa, Bermuda, etc. They garden in warm climates, which maked them relevant to me, and tell great stories about how specific roses may have gotten to where they live. My favorite story was by a Tea Rose Lady in Australia, Billy Tea-Bag, who remarked that a visiting rose expert looked at a rose there that was called "Countess Bertha". He thought it might be 'Comtesse de la Barthe', but said no one could have changed that name to "Countess Bertha". Billy's response was "Oh yes, Australians could do that!".

Jackie