What is the moisture like in your container?? Did it get all of your sprouts?? Did they have the cotyledon fully formed??

First thought maybe root rot if it is to wet??

2nd thought is that the frost got it, the lupine was the only plant that didn't survive that week long of below freezing temps that I had. It took some time to get hit with it though but it slowly just went from a green to brown to black stage.

I was reading in the faq's and trudi had mentioned about the soil diseases and fungus that usually that is pretty low when winter sowing because of the cold temps seem to kill any bacteria or fungus in the soil. So how long before you sowed your lupine did you sow the seaweed?? Where the containers out in the snow and freezing temps before germination??

I personally have never used captan, as a matter of fact I am truly clueless on what this product is. I figured it was a typo when reading your post and you were saying something like Quick Captain... Help!! LOL oh me, so much that we learn on these forums!! LOL

Sorry I am not much help!!

Ladyrose, I've never heard of anyone finding it necessary to use a fungicide for wintersown containers. I don't use them for sowing either indoors or out, they can be the most difficult of all products for safe home garden use and I have used them sparingly and occasionally on roses, nothing else, in almost 40 years.

You said you used seaweed - what form? If an emulsion, it's possible to burn seedlings with an organic fertilizer just as with a synthetic product and the usual recommendation there is 1/4 label strength after 2 sets true leaves. Did you mean actual seaweed as harvested for compost? Pathogens that cause damp-off survive on dead organic matter....

Overly wet soil can lead to root rot expecially if compacted in your container (one reason we don't recommend actual soil or top soil in WS containers), and of course cold could zap your seedlings as can too limited air circulation.

What does the top of your soil in your containers look like, is white or webby, green with algae or moss? Did you temps drop sharply one night or day in the last few?

I'm not trying to sound critical of your choice, I'm not completely anti-chemical when circumstances warrant but neither am I sure what you have is damp-off, or that a few immature lupin seedlings would be worth its use.

The Baptisia I winter-sowed 3 years ago sprouted well but suffered dieback in about 1/2 of the seedlings. This occurred even though the seeds were fresh that year and treated with an inoculant that came with seeds. This is supposedly common with Baptisia seedlings, and perhaps Lupine as well? They are both legumes with similar seeds.

When I started seeds inside under lights, if there was a problem with damping off, I used a dilute solution of a product called "Soap-shield" which is a liquid copper fungicide from Gardens Alive. That worked pretty well. Some people use a layer of vermiculite on top of the potting mix.

I think the soil was too wet in the container. Because I found more Larger Lupine sprouts in my cup containers. They def. have Seaweed in them. These are the best looking sprouts I have so far.

Carolyn, I mixed pure seaweed from the store into the soil of some containers. Microbes from seaweed are very good for the soil and plants. I put it in my garden in the past; being curious, I decided, on a whim, to put it on some containers. To see if I get healthier plants vs. the non-seaweed containers.

Morz, I do have mold in my coke bottles. However, they don't have any seaweed in them. I gave them a little squeeze, to give them more air circulation.

I let more air in that particular container. I believe too much water. I looked again, today, I think seedling rot. (There is one really nice sprout coming thru from this container).

Heee Heee you guys and these new fertilizer things. Never even thought of seaweed as an organic fertilizer but it makes sense cause it takes like poo, LOL!!

If you care for a story that is way off topic but need a laugh here it is.

I was spraying (pest control) this restaurant well it was chinese, well we had to always go late at night. They would feed their kids while we were there. My co worker and I just kind of looked dumbfounded at what was being served. We asked "what is that??" The little lady said "seaweed, it is good for the brain. You must try some", lol. My co worker took a little bite, me not being scared took a big honking bite. The woman and kids just laughed and laughed at me cause I could barely get it down. She said "that good it make you smart!!" LOL, maybe I need to order some more cause it didn't work, lol!!

Carolyn, You are Funny!

Well, I guess I won't be making you any 'Seaweed Soup'!?
It is an acquired Taste, but I testify, it is good for the skin. It will, along with exercise, reduce cellulite. Cook it with a lot of fresh garlic and Ginger.

Hmm well it is good for the brain, reduces cellulite, helps your skin, and even is a fertilizer. This is something I guess I need to be checking more into!! lol

Ladyrose, I wished you were there to see this little womans eyes. They were big round and with an excited gleam when she said "that good, it make you smart", LOL.

By the way the kids were straight A students!! They were from hong kong!!

Ladyrose, while I was outside today taking pictures of the delphinium I noticed my lupine sprouts. Well look at my sprouts 2 look great the 3rd looks horrible. I tell you what this is the first time I have ever grown lupine from seed but these are some troublesome little boogers. I am thinking it might of been a disruption in the root system when the container got knocked over. Though I wanted to share with you that I am having some major issues growing this lupine. If I get 1 of these 3 sprouts to make it I will feel as I succeeded!! By the way 6 in all originally germinated and this is what is left!!

{{gwi:226420}}

Thank Caroyln, for the info. on the Lupines. Because the ones in the first container wilted. I have not checked today, because we got heavy rains!

But I found out that Cornmeal, is a natural fungicide and will prevent damping off. Google Cornmeal Juice. At least, it's organic in comparison to the Captan.

It doesn't really look like damp off to me, could it have just frozen? I've had some really wet WSown jugs but never seen damp off. And I never sterilize anything for WSing, either. If you think it is damp off, you might want to remove the infected seedlings, then wash hands well. Maybe cut more drainage holes,too.

I've had really good results using chamomile tea for damp off prevention on my indoor seedlings, never had damp off on those,either. But I sterilize everything, including soil, for indoors.

Karen

From your description I would guess frost killed the seedlings.

I have also had wet containers and even had mold/moss/algae inside some but the seedlings did not die off. Opening the container helped dry out the mold. Some of my 2nd year containers have had seedlings coming up through moss.

Lupine seedlings have been iffy for me. Sometimes they grow well and then later after being potted up and grown on for some time some might just die. Boom, dead! Others in pots right next to them and treated the same will be fine. What works the best for me is to get them planted out when very small. I need to protect the planted seedlings as the rabbits find them very tasty.

Mnwsgal, when you say small how small are you meaning?? Cause I have been thinking about going ahead and transplanting mine this week the first set of true leaves are just starting to appear.

I've put them out very small with two or three true leaves.

I planted out when just starting to show 2nd true leaf.

{{gwi:355711}}

Karen

That settles it they are going in the ground either tomorrow or thursday!! Thanks you two!!

I'll wait until next Month!

Great photo, Karen!

BTW, that photo was 2006. They bloomed in spring of the following year, very pretty. Then summer came and they looked like crap. They don't like my clay soil or it's alkaline pH, not to mention our hot humid summers. I yanked them that same year and fed them to the compost.

Karen

The hybrids are such magnets for aphids and mildew here, I don't try to grow them either. There is a native variety not quite as showy (modest blue) that I always mean to note and go back to collect seed from - then somehow don't get around to it at the right time to find seeds :)

CC..we all get anxious once we see sprouts. It's only the first week of March..don't rush to get those sprouts planted to your flowerbeds yet. Even in Tn. the soil can't be that warm and I've done that here in April and we had a killing frost and lost a lot of Dazzler impatients and astilibe. You've worked too hard to lose those babies! Wait for another month.

Karen, when my lupin foliage looks bad I just cut it back and will sometimes get regrowth soon, other times it will not regrow until cooler fall temps or even the next spring.

I plant some expecting the foliage to die back and make room for another plant to use that space.

Sound advice but what if I protected them like say put my container top on top of the seedling.

Pippi I remember that year, it was horrible, trees all over the place here were dieing, I am not talking about saplings I mean some 20 to 30 year old trees.

Sound advise is to be sure your chances of a frost hitting those "babies", is only a very slim one if at all.

You can also be prepared to cover them overnight, with sheets, blankets, etc. if that unexpected frost decides to come your way.

Up her in MA, we've had crazy weather extremes since I started WS back in 2003.

Many times we've had a frost hit when one would never expect it, and even temps that have gone down well below freezing, into the mid 20's in mid May and even had snow flakes falling on May 19-20 in 2005, when my daughter graduated college.

I cover my annual seedlings if the temps are going to fall over night, and then get the covers off in the morning when the temps warm up. If I don't do that with the annuals, I know from experience, that I will lose all of them.

I still follow the "old farmers time frame" in New England, nothing get's planted that could be lost to a frost or freeze before the original Memorial day, which was May 30th.

I've never lost a seedling or plant that was planted from that date on, whether it was WS or store bought, but sure have if they where planted before that date, either WS or store bought.

Karen, I've never pulled my lupines when they started to get "ratty looking". I just cut off the ratty looking part and all new growth comes in and many times they will give me a smaller rebloom about a month later, not anywhere near as lush as the first bloom, but it a bloom.

Been doing that for quite a few years now and even if the lupin doesn't bloom a second time, it is still lush green foliage that is there all summer.

Fran

I tried cutting them down. The new growth was ugly. Our summers are much hotter and much more humid here. And my soil is alkaline clay, while lupin do best in well drained sandy soil with an acidic pH.

I don't have any of the conditions they want. And I don't want plants that don't do well in my yard. It's much easier to change plants to match my soil than to change my soil to what plants want.

Karen

"And I don't want plants that don't do well in my yard. It's much easier to change plants to match my soil than to change my soil to what plants want.

I agree. What works for one doesn't always work for another.

I agree with both of you. I do have a more acidic soil in my beds, especially in the front. I have enough pines around me that provide the soil with the acid, which sometimes creates problems.

Especially with WS, it is so easy to yank out one plant and put in another. There's always a container waiting for us to plant.

Fran

Ladyrose, I don't know if it is to late for yours or not, but I have to share this with you. I am a total hands on person I can not keep my hands out of the pots, ugh sometimes it is a curse and sometimes it is a wonderful thing.

Anywho, I was messing with that third lupine seedling and just trying to see what was up with it. Well it totally came up, like root rot was the problem (yes the same container as the 2 healthy ones). Well part of the stem still looked healthy, so I just buried the plant a little deeper and crossed my fingers. It has been a week, and it is growing!! I be dern that little guy is growing!! The true leaves are starting to come out and have progressed since I found the problem. I am tickled pink over here!!

I had to share with you and I hope it isn't to late for yours!!