I went through a "downsizing" this year and consolodated/eliminated a few rose beds to reduce the amount of maintainence in my garden.

I kept the best roses, which were healthy and productive no-spray roses, and got rid of roses that were prone to blackspot or not thriving or too big/misplaced for the space they were in.

It made me sad during the downsizing (now I only have 100 or so roses and last year had over 120...), and the work of moving and removing big roses was no fun, but now I'll have more time and energy to concentrate on the total garden picture which includes perennials, bulbs, and other shrubs and small trees. I hope to keep the weeds in reasonable check next season and I enjoy pruning and caring for the roses I have left more, feels less like a chore.

So, don't be afraid to bite the bullet and make the changes you want now for the long haul! Get rid of those HTs or climbers that are causing more problems than joy! There are so many good roses out there, and experience is the best teacher. Learn from your experiences. Gardens are changing/growing/evolving all the time and you shouldn't feel locked in and static to any particular choice you made in the past if you have remorse.

I've been in the quality versus quantity mode of thinking this year, also. I absolutely love roses, but I had so many at one time that I was a slave to my yard, and I wasn't enjoying it. It is no fun re-doing things, and just might kill me by the time I'm done, but I need beauty with lower up-keep these days. You know, more of the fun stuff in the garden, versus the drudge.

I have added many camellias to my yard where I once tried to force roses to stay healthy. Those areas that WE think "shade tolerant" roses should grow well, as well as disease free, because that's where WE want some roses. They would end up with little direct sun, and much dappled or heavy shade during the day. The camellias are better suited to the part sun/part shade areas, and are beautiful shrubs. They have a fairly long blooom period only once per year, but so do many roses.

I am in the process of adding day lillies as companion plants, and many attractive Florida native plants. The native plants are going to go into places where roses do "O.K." One such area is the foundation area on the west side of my house. I never found a rose that was truly happy with morning shade down here. Sure, they'd live and they would bloom, but compared to the same rose in full sun, or in morning sun/afternoon shade, there was an obvious difference in health and attractiveness to the bush. The natives have made for a more attractive foundation planting, on that side of my house. Unhappy roses are not very attractive, and the foundation planting to your home needs to enhance it. The east and west sides are ideal for roses.

The best roses are the ones I am keeping and/or going to add in 2009. They are in, and going into, my full sun areas, as they become very nicely foliated and attractive. They also bloom better in those conditions. Roses that are constantly defoliated from blackspot or whatever else comes along, are removed and replaced with those that are more suited.

All in all, I am only going to grow the roses that make me anxious to visit them all the time. I am ending up with less roses, but overall better landscaping. I am at the point where I would rather have one big beautiful bush in a spot than 3 mediocre ones. If there are some new roses I MUST have, there are always pots, which is sometimes a good way to trial a rose before committing to a spot in the ground.

What has been a wonderful surprise is how much prettier rose bushes are when surrounded by other types of plants and shrubs. I'm still in the process of making my changes, but have had to slow down a little, until spring.

Yes, I have had buyers remorse, and the resultant blues, but maybe that's how we truly learn about gardening and plants.

Sandy

I want quantity AND quality. That is, I want a lot more roses, but after growing roses here for some years, I'm drawing conclusions about what grows well here, and stays, and what isn't so hot, and goes.

I ruled out Hybrid Teas from the start, just not being enthusiastic about them; but have also pretty much decided that English Roses aren't suited here: the soil's too heavy; the summers are too dry. So they're slowly going away. The only English rose that that's definitely going to stay is 'Sharifa Asma', which blooms if it has any rain at all, always looks healthy and sturdy, and is exquisitely fragrant.

My Gallicas got massacred this summer. They really suffered if they were in very heavy clay and full sun, and perhaps particularly the classical Gallicas, low and suckering; though there's no strict rule about which ones got hit hardest. Those in part shade or cool areas with looser soil throve. I'm going to keep this in mind as I plant the roses I bought this year, and will replace the defunct Gallicas with Damasks, which seem to handle very heavy alkaline soil and full sun better. The R. foetida cultivars also seem to be reasonably happy in those conditions. I have some doubts about Spinossimia hybrids in the same conditions, having lost two plants of 'Fruehlingsgold' in the big garden, but am trying three of the Fruehlings-roses this year, since I've wanted them for so long. Albas also do well in alkaline clay with hot, dry summers, possibly because they have dog roses in their ancestry, which grow all over the place here. 'Celestial' and 'Félicité Parmentier' are fussier about conditions than 'Great Maiden's Blush' and 'Blanche de Belgique'.

I've never been a great fan of the Bourbons, but am beginning to rethink my opinion; they may be essentially once-blooming here if the fall rain comes too late, but they are usually healthy and tough and floriferous in the spring. I'm also beginning to think about trying some Hybrid Perpetuals, since 'Général Jacqueminot' sneaked into the garden and did well, and a few more old-fashioned Hybrid Teas. The Teas and Chinas are splendid, of course. And there are surprises among the Mosses.

My message took a turn I didn't expect, but I've been thinking lately about evaluating roses in terms of class, and with sixty new roses coming am curious to see how they'll do. I wish I had room for ramblers and climbers!!

Melissa

In my opinion roses absolutely need companion plants! Without the lavenders, catmint, rosemary, viburnums, box, yew, pinks, irises, buddleias, caryopteris,...even the most beautiful roses would be barren and dull.

Definitely quality, but I do want a reasonable quantity as well. I would not be satisfied with, say, six great roses and no more. If only six did well for me I'd probably get multiples of those six.

I admire gardens of hundreds of roses tremendously. They can be magical places to spend time, almost like something out of a fairy tale. Still I do not feel called to create that kind of garden myself.

On the other hand, I do grow lots of other kinds of plants than just roses. Rose are my favorites, but they are not the only kinds of plants I love.

Rosefolly

*** In my opinion roses absolutely need companion plants! Without the lavenders, catmint, rosemary, viburnums, box, yew, pinks, irises, buddleias, caryopteris,...even the most beautiful roses would be barren and dull.

Melissa, your point is a good one. My roses are still so small that my companions overwhelm them. (Only in Florida do perennials get bigger than roses!) Next year I should be better able to judge placement, etc. Can't grow yews here. I think I have places for 2 buddleias that will really improve the look. Don't care for box - every yard in our neighborhood has them! I'll have to check catmint and caryopteris. Have Spanish lavender and a rosemary growing successfully in 100% sand - surprise! We had much less rain than normal since August so maybe their condition will change next year. Angelonia did great (but again outgrew the roses!) Like you said, maybe that will relieve the roses' performance anxiety:)) Also, not knowing much about daylilies, none of mine are repeaters, so all summer they were just a clump of browning leaves - not good! I'll have to look for repeaters but they won't be as cheap:((

For sure there is a learning curve. Too bad there isn't a Rescue group for roses that would do better elsewhere! I'm sure we'd all love to pass them on to a happier home, but...

Sherry

As to companion plants...I decided this Fall that my roses would look nice with some iris. I fell into the same kind of rabbit hole that I did once I started ordering roses: looking at pictures, falling in love, and buying much more than I had planned! Not a lot by the forum's standards, but a lot for a balcony, no matter how long it is! But I have no regrets!!
I found that, as with roses, I fell for the older, more classic-looking iris. Some of the more recent ones are so baroque they look like some strange alien life-form.
I just hope everything BLOOMS come Spring!
Laura

Hey, does anyone think irises would like being in pots (maybe with no holes) of heavy moist soil? Maybe I could sink the pot in the bed and make my own bog. Has anyone done something like that? Just a thought. I don't dare look at any iris websites.

Sherry

Hi Sherry, I don't think iris would do well in a bog garden. I haven't grown alot of iris but my mother in law did and I know she kept the tops of the iris bulbs uncovered. Not sure if they would do good where it stays moist. It might rot the bulbs or tubers whatever they are called. Someone else though might know for sure. Judy

I started with the quantity, and I'll keep swapping them out until I get the quality, too.

Louisiana Iris (I. fulva and hybrids) for a bog garden--a bog is their natural habitat.

Bearded (tall or short) Iris and Bulb ("Dutch") Iris are amoung the ones that don't do bogs.

Sherry,

My list of companion plants is of those I have and that grow well for me. Since your garden conditions are so different from mine, your companion plants will mostly be different too. You'll need to research what grows well in central Florida, and in time you'll have a great Florida garden, just as I'm working on a great Mediterranean hill garden. The irises are a perfect example. Tall bearded irises do extremely well here--they grow wild by the side of the road--but probably wouldn't do for you; but then you can grow the swamp-loving Louisiana irises! I grew up in north Florida and my older sister's a garden designer there, so I know something about what a great Florida garden can be. Good luck!

Melissa

For me it's quality over quantity.

I used to have 13 potted roses - now I'm only left with 9. I gave 4 roses away because they are either virused, or the blooms and the scent didn't attract my attention.

I started off loving cup shaped roses - now my interest turns to those quarter shaped roses with a button eye at the center.

Growing roses in pots is pretty hard work i.e., sweeping the ground, you also have problems like mildew, spider mites, and watering them manually due to water restrictions.

The ones I have at the moment include:

- A Shropshire Lad - so far looking quite healthy, although a poor bloomer
- Tea Clipper - love the quarter shaped blooms with a button eye at the center, although the colour fades quickly; blooms don't last long in the heat.
- Summer Song - for its orange colour that adds vibrant to the garden
- Falstaff - I'm not sure about this one - requires too much attention here with spraying. Perhaps giving it one more year.
- Cinderella fairytale - got rid of one, simply because I don't like roses with glossy modern leaves. To me - this rose is like the climbing version of "The Fairy
- Jude the Obscure - still looking healthy, but I quickly got bored with those cup-shaped blooms. Still a keeper, and blooming very well here.
- Soeur Emmanulle - another rose with cupshaped blooms. A prolific bloomer but I prefer roses with scatter blooms instead.
- Sharifa Asma - I was planning on getting rid of this rose, after a hard prune early this year. To my amazement, this rose bounce back up looking healthy than ever and has this lovely shape. A Keeper.
- Gertude Jekyll - a poor bloomer here, but the scent is absolutely incredible! Definitely a keeper.

Fragrance is my number 1 priority. Follow by the shape and the colour.

I was planning on adding some OGRs next year but on a second thought - with water prices on the rise, and a small garden, maybe it isn't a good idea.

On the otherhand, I'm worried that nuseries may shut down, and therefore those OGRs might be hard to find in the future. So as you can see, not an easily decision to make here.

I always keep asking myself: Why do I keep buying so many roses? Why can't I just stick to one or two? Is it because I want to impress someone with my rose collection? Or is it because I'm worried that those roses might be hard to find in the future?

I'm adding many more plants that are evergreen for year round seasonal beauty. I'm also leaning more and more toward the species and near species roses. Bulbs are taking on a new meaning (thanks Kathy). And, I think I'm just getting more and more interested in heritage plants period. I've been visiting Monticello's nursery, and I return from each visit with a wide variety of heritage plants and shrubs. I guess I want my garden/yard to have a semi-formal natural flow to it. I've got about 650 different varieties of roses. Some of them are gradually dying off (Showbiz, Bonica, Sexy Rexy, et al.), and I will not replace them. Some that I felt "should" have been good from the literature I read (Gruss an Teplitz), just don't want to grow...when it dies, it will not be replaced. I will continue adding to my collection of Barbier ramblers...if I had only Barbier ramblers, I think I would be happy enough. And, lastly, I'm really excited about my open pollinated seedlings...none of which I have seen bloom..but they sure do look healthy! I do love my garden.

Robert

I've been downsizing the number of roses in my garden for a couple of years. It's hard because I truly do love so many different types of roses, but every rose isn't suited for my climate and I am getting rid of the ones that require chemicals to keep a single leaf. I'm like Paula, I still want more than a "few" roses, I just want healthy ones that make me happy to look at them and that add to the garden as a whole. I also have shrubs, trees and many different kinds of Iris, clematis, jasmine, gladiolus, geraniums, saliva's......

Carol

I can signed under every word from Carol's post. I am dowsizing my rose number for couple years. Considering even my Abraham Darby, which I love a lot, but it really needs chemical support. It is painful, but...
Still adding a few species, gallicas, but overall number goes down significantly. I am crazy about bulbs, alwas was, any kind of bulbs. Whatever is`suitable for my climate is here. Peonies, irises, lilacs, mock Oranges, clematis, etc. Gardening is such ajoy.
Olga

I am downsizing simply because my roses don't perform well in July and August and I am getting too old to care for them. Truth is, I don't perform well 12 months of the year.

Last year I removed 5 HT's. This winter I have already removed a few more plus Mdm. Plantier and one of my Sweet Chariots. My high was 55 roses, I plan to get myself down to about 20. The roses which are crowded and the ones which attract midge are on the list.

It is a conundrum. I want to support the old rose nurseries and if I don't try more roses I'm afraid I'll miss some really wonderful ones. I also want an abundance of roses for the sheer pleasure of having them to enjoy and look at every day. On the other hand there is the problem of living in water-thirsty southern California, and who knows how stringent the water restrictions will become in the future. I concentrate mainly on teas, with chinas and a few noisettes, Austins, mosses and moderns thrown into the mix. Having around 85 roses seems to be my limit and of course I want them to be the best possible ones. Shovel pruning is the only way and I'm able to do this more easily now that my goals have become clear to me. I also strongly agree that companion plants are a must. Unfortunately my repeat blooming irises have been a big disappointment in their second year but the brutally hot summer may have made the difference. Still, without crape myrtle, butterfly bushes, rosemary, lavenders, lantanas, carnations, sea lavender, day lilies, junipers and cypresses and others it would be a boring garden. At this point I think the culling of less desirable roses is a positive step for me because it furthers my vision of what I want my garden to ultimately become - my version of paradise.

Ingrid

Oh, quality and quantity of everything. I'll just keep planting until I run out of room. If it grows it's welcome and if it doesn't I replace it.
Robert, you mentioned Edible Landscaping to me and now I am in a tizzy. I spend two days filling out an on-line order that wouldn't go below $500 no matter how much I swapped around. Now I am trying very hard not to drive up there because the shipping cost more than the gas.

Intentionally did not protect my back gardens this year except for some of the portlands ... the time has come to de-rose out of zone roses by letting nature take its course in a major way. Was a blast when in the throes but not anymore - the east perennials will take the place of those that past and the east gardens will be back to grass (too shady). Grass will take back about3 to 4 feet of the pods in the back. Getting too old and interests are moving on.

"Getting too old and interests are moving on." Yes. I got heavily into roses when my oldest son left for college - it filled some empty spot in my nurturing instinct I guess, LOL. Rapidly, the gardens filled up and I expanded and expanded and expanded some more until now I find myself young enough to still have to work full time but old enough to really feel a reduction in physical ability and stamina, and now with grandchildren to fill my weekends. Last year the roses didn't get sprayed one single time and not by plan. Some did just fine and I'll be happy to keep those, but some looked perfectly awful (and in fact may be so weakened that they don't make it through this winter which is, as Riku says, "letting nature take its course.") The chemical dependent roses will be removed one way or another until I restructure the gardens to be a lot less care intensive. Quite a few day lilies were planted last year and I plan to add even more of them along with other carefree perennials since full beds make the weeding less of a chore. Yes indeed, Quality over Quantity is the smart way to garden...too bad we seem to need to go through that obsessive/compulsive stage before we realize it!

Obsessive/compulsive is the perfect way to describe my rose addiction!
In the beginning, being new to roses, the only class I was aware of was Hybrid Teas. Now my world and education has grown. Time to cull the HT roses and replace them with Teas, and Chinas!

Time to cull the HT roses and replace them with Teas, and Chinas!

*** Sure. For you (as for me) those, and the Noisettes, are the "easy, carefree" roses.
In another climate, it would be Damasks and Albas.
Or . . .
The trick is to find roses that want to grow healthy where you are, and concentrate on those.

I hope you can come to the Sacramento City Cemetery in April, Daun.
I think there will be some neat things.

Jeri

catsrose,

Edible Landscaping IS dangerous. When I went there, I just kept adding and adding and adding to my cart. It's a good thing we didn't take a larger vehicle.

Robert

Robert,

I'm curious to know what all you got at Edible Landscaping. Is that where you found your fig trees? I surely do need more land :-)

Carol

Carol, yes fig trees and persimmon trees :)

I think we all need to go to Robert's house. Sounds like he is going to have great food!

Sherry, if you happen to see this, check out our newly formed Marion County Native Plant Society. I'm getting wonderful ideas on what to add to my landscape. There are some wonderful plants that can be grown with little care once established, either to enhance a rose bush or grow in a spot that a rose hates. I'm going to warn you though.....it leads to another addiction! That's why we are on the lookout for land. I'm thinking gardening life will be bliss with no deed restrictions!

Sandy

Sandy, I looked but it's late now. Didn't know we had native rhododendrons. I have no space though and limey soil. I'll look further another time. Thanks for the reference.

Sherry

Organic tosca,

I'm fifty-one and getting creaky in a surprising hurry, but I'm still planting roses and expanding my garden. Frankly, I have no idea how I'm going to maintain it when I'm seventy, but I have twenty years to work it out. But my husband is seventy-three now, and he's going full blast: digging dozens of planting holes, building pergola entrances, mowing the grass (not an easy task on our steep land), hauling great piles of mulch. I plan on gardening as long as I can lift a pruner and take cuttings. The worst thing a person can do, I think, is say, "I'm too old for that". Who can foresee the future? A better motto is the one someone quoted here on the forum, and which I probably don't cite exactly: "Garden as though you were going to live another eighty years".

Have fun growing your roses!!!!!

Melissa

It gotten much easier for me to maintain roses. I had a catastrophic stroke that gave me severe balance and propreception problems. Working around roses for eight years has greatly enhanced my spacial awareness and coordination. I was a little leery about growing a lot of HTs after our first winter kill, but we are now up to 40 HTs, out of 151 bushes. We will probably add another dozen HTs next year.

"Garden as though you were going to live another eighty years".

Melissa, I like that very much. Maybe we should do everything that way.

Sherry

Melissa -
Grazie very much! My feelings exactly.
Laura