I like those! How do they measure? Are they deep enough to keep the plants hardy over winter? Any instructions on how to make them?

Well I've battered you with enough questions.

btw, joined nargs based upon your recommendation and eagerly awaiting my first seeds.

Karen

You might want to look at this SRGC (Scottish Rock Garden Club) article on using fish boxes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Trough gardens - Styrofoam

Hmmm, any reason why, say, an old styrofoam cooler could not be gainfully re-employed in such a way? Does the styrofoam need to be of a particular composition or quality? Any idea on the usable lifespan of a styrofoam trough? Do they break down in sunlight after a while, or does the paint coating protect against it? Very intriguing...

Beautiful trough and pictures! Unfortunately, I don't have any near so nice, but this summer, I really gained an appreciation for our troughs!
I was astounded to realize the length of the bloom period for some of the plants...which is rather puzzling. Was it an unusual year for them, or had I simply not been paying attention before?
For example, here are pics of the same little Draba rigida...
A cute, unassuming little bun, coming out of winter on March 27/04:
{{gwi:369714}}


Starting to bloom, April 27/04:
{{gwi:369716}}

In the midst of a brilliant and very prolonged, bloom, May 8/04:
{{gwi:369718}}


Incredibly, still blooming, June 2/04!
{{gwi:369720}}



Wow!

Similarly, an amazingly long (though not so striking) bloom last year on Saxifraga x irvingii 'Jenkinsiae'...
Buds showing on March 27/04:

{{gwi:369723}}

Earliest in-bloom pic on April 4, though this pic is April 20/04 (yeah, okay, it's not a traffic-stopper, LOL!):
{{gwi:369725}}



And, incredibly, just wrapping up on May 26/04!
{{gwi:369727}}


(By the way, please correct me if these names are incorrect - I suspect many of my trough specimens might be misnamed.)
Anyway, so I'm kinda fired up about maybe making more troughs and getting a little more serious about rock gardening this year!

Rick, where can we get trough seed?? Just kidding of course! Lovely photos, Rick and ABGardeneer.

Welcome to NARGS Squirrelspur!

I remember when I first joined National. It was for the seed exchange. For a long time the bulletins seemed over my head, as I hadn't a clue as to what the articles were talking about. But slowly, you become more and more familiar, and the bulletin becomes more and more interesting. I don't remember now if you have a local chapter near abouts, but it was (and is) a huge plus for me. You may just have to settle for us and other rock garden web sites.

The styrofoam trough pictured is about 26x18x7 inches. It is deep enough for me to overwinter with a mulch and certainly for anyone in zone 7. Ian Young's description of how to make one in the link above is right on. In fact it is from him that our club learned. Our club had a display one year on fish box troughs in the horticulture building at the State Fair. It won Grand Champion.

Ian Young is a wonderful and knowledgeable guy. We were lucky enough to have him speak to our club as part of the NARGS speaker tour. AND he stayed at my house for the two days he was here! The topic we chose from his long list of possibilities was "The Challenge of Growing Fritillaria". A most excellent presentation. The Scottish Rock Garden Club web site is very good, as are Ian's periodic additions.

Back to fish boxes, I've heard it said that styrofoam coolers are not as strong, although I don't see how that could be true. Surprising, my styro trough can be picked up with just my two hands, even filled with a mostly rock based soil (not to mention the large surface rocks). It usually sits on a board, however. Because it is styrofoam, it weighs about the same as my 19x13x5.5" hypertufa trough.

ABgardeneer, I marvel at the stuff grow. I can't wait to see more of your endeavors in this area.

Rick

P.S. Vegangirl: I think you can get trough seed from Dr. Seuss.

{{gwi:369729}}
Hypertufa trough: the mold was a little plastic basin for dishwashing.
1. Sempervivum 'May Imp', Echinocereus coccineus, Sedum mentha requenii
2, Sedum obtusifolium, Rabia albipuncta(hardiness questionable)

Well leftwood, I'm trying!

ABGardeneer, my draba actually rebloomed in August, not too many flowers, but very nice to see none the less!

I made these two troughs using hypertufa and have another one that I'll planted this spring. (Please excuse the lovely wire cages, they are to keep the squirrels and birds out!)

~GardenChicken

{{gwi:369731}}

Rick, I think I'll order some! I hope I can grow a trough as nice as the ones I see in these photos. Ok enough foolishness, I guess:-)

Troughs seem more complicated to me being a total rock garden beginner. I have so much to learn. Oh how I wish there was a local chapter!!

GardenC, your troughs look great! Actually, I think all you guys in the Far North Forum are cool. And your wire cages, well I can't think of anything better to do the job. I have had birds go after my Delospermum for the moisture in the leaves, but it hasn't been a real problem yet. Squirrels a pretty sparse yet as I live in a development that is only about 25 years old. I have chipmunks. Not in the troughs, but digging in all my pot(I means pots). And Rabbits. I have eleven individual shrubs and two gardens caged for the winter. And I only own a half an acre!

Vegangirl, you don't need a real or faux trough to get into action. I've used bonsai pots and shallow bowls. The possibilities could be endless. My advice here is to try to use a container that is rigid. Otherwise, every time you pick it up it will flex because of the heavy mineral soil and rocks.

Rick

These pictures of great troughs and plants make me wish I did. I bought a book last year on how to make hypertufa troughs but never got around to making one. These styrofoam troughs intrigue me. Thank you for the link Brian2cv. These sound much easier and a lot less messy to make than hypertufa. Now I just need to find out where I can get a fish box or two. Anyone know where I could find some?

This is something I'd like to try my hand at this summer. Small plants get lost in my yard and I think this is a nice way to showcase the mini's that I otherwise avoid.

A question, though. Rick mentions he winters his with mulch but Lori, I think, has mentioned before on the Far North forum that hers winter without benefit of mulch. Anyone want to expand on this? I don't really want to mulch them (I'm sure they will be covered with snow anyway) so do I stick with only the most hardy of plants then?

Great photos everyone.

Well, I know very little about rock gardening/alpines, and only dabble in it...and it is extremely likely that the species that survive in our troughs are the hardiest-of-the-hardy (i.e. "survival of the fittest", LOL!)
So, having said that, it is true that our troughs are never protected, despite that we have only very sporadic snow cover here. (When we do have snow, it gets shovelled off the driveway and onto the troughs , but it rarely lasts long.) Given that, I must say that these troughs are also incredibly low maintenance - the troughs are almost never watered specifically (they get water only when a sprinkler is being used to water the area in general).

So, here is most of what's in our troughs (excluding unknowns!):
Penstemon procerus (suitable in the garden too)
Penstemon newberryi var. newberryi (suitable in the garden too)
Rosa hemispherica
Draba rigida
Primula marginata (suitable in the shade garden too)
Primula farinosa (as above)
Saponaria lutea
Erigeron leiomerus
Androsace primuloides
Dianthus alpina
Dianthus freyneii
Dianthus sternkissen
Talinum spinescens
Corypantha vivipara
Veronica thymoides
Gentiana septemfida (suitable in the garden too)
Saxifraga sancta
Saxifraga x irvingii 'Jenkinsiae'
Aquilegia laramiensis
Heuchera hallii
Rhodiola rosea

As I said, I assume these all must be very hardy and carefree species to grow, and might do well in even harsher climates (but, Rick, please offer correction if needed).
I know that serious alpine enthusiasts here do use micro-foam, etc. for winter protection, though it is a virtual certainty they are growing more delicate species.
Lori

Rick, "Actually, I think all you guys in the Far North Forum are cool"... Cool. That's funny.

I have a problem with the birds pecking at the little bit of real tufa that I have as accents in my troughs. And the squirrels don't actually dig the plants but uproot them whilst burying their (my!) peanuts.

Sagebrushred, you might try calling the seafood department at the grocery store or market. Apparently they have fish boxes that just get chucked. Also, here is another link for covering styro boxes. Styro Troughs

Pudge, I don't mulch my troughs, I do the same as Lori and throw available snow on them for insulation. Of course, with the mild weather we've had the last few days there is a slab of ice on them. I think is harder on the little plants than anything else, except maybe the drying Chinook winds... ahhh... Calgary!

Great list Lori! You're not a CRAGS member?

About wintering troughs, I have a confession. Most people here do put a light mulch over them. One that is loose and "liftable" so it doesn't mat down. Alpines in general are very susceptible to winter wet. Marsh hay seems to work best, and if that's all you use it for, it is reusable next season too. Some don't use a mulch at all. It just depends on the kinds of plants you work with. And if you have dependable snow, I would never bother.

My confession is that I really don't do either. Because I am such a propagation nut, I overwinter between 300 and 500 pots, plus troughs. And since I have such a critter problem, for winter they all go inside wood box frames covered in hardware cloth(screen with half inch holes). Plants are placed upright or on their sides, however they fit best. Each box has shelfability. (I like inserting words into the language.) As the conglomeration is a mix of marginal and hardy plants, they all get the treatment that the marginals would need. The boxes are placed on the north side of the house, and loosely covered with a tarp until well after the ground freezes. Usually the first or second week of December, they get some blankets and waterproofing tarp to keep them cold (but not too cold) over the winter. A little hard to explain, but pictures tell all:
{{gwi:369733}}
{{gwi:369734}}

And what do I do with all these plants, you wonder? Sell them at our Rock Garden Society plant sales, of course!

Only about one-eigth of my boxed plants are rock plants.

GardenC is right. Fishboxes can be obtained from grocery stores that sell fish. Ian Young told me he gets his direct from the factory as there is one not far from his residence in Scotland.

Lori, I certainly would call you a novice. Healthy plants are just as important as genetics when it comes to winter hardiness. Get what I'm saying? And I am so jealous of your Rhodiola rosea. Seems it is a rabbits most favorite food (after sassafras). He kept eating mine down until it finally died.

Rick

Interesting, Rick. It would probably be impossible for you to tell us all that you grow, but could you share some of the highlights? We have jackrabbits that cruise the neighborhood, but seem to do no noticeable damage to anything in our yard - don't tell them about the Rhodiola rosea in my trough!

GardenChicken, please share what you are growing too!
Yes, I was in CRAGS (Calgary Rock and Alpine Gardening Society) for a while, and found it to be very informative. I'm just not much of a club person though. I have recently rejoined NARGS, though I gotta admit, my interest is mainly sort of parasitic (yeah, it's the seed list, LOL!) The thought has occurred to me that perhaps I could repay my debt somewhat by contributing seeds next year - assuming there is any need for the things I could contribute, which surely must be coming very abundantly from people in warmer zones? Well, I think I'll offer, anyway.

With respect to going the extra effort to protect alpine species... Honestly, I gotta say that with perennials in general, my interest goes as far as ferretting out the species that are actually reasonably-reliably hardy here, in contrast to what one might read about them. Fortunately, there are so many of them, that my interest remains satisfied by that endeavor, so I don't forsee going to the stage of growing a lot that I actually have to protect. We'll see, I guess! Perhaps I will be so seduced by some of the irresistible species I read about in future postings, that I'll have to give in!

GardenChicken, I've never seen ice collect in our troughs - as the snow melts it just sinks through the soil medium - so I'm sure the lack of winter-wet helps greatly. (By the way, it doesn't get shovelled onto the troughs for the intentional purpose of protection; it's done only because the troughs line the edge of the driveway, thus utilizing an otherwise ungardenable area, LOL! They've spent plenty of winters essentially snow-free; thus they must be very hardy species.)

I wouldn't go so far as to say this is what I'm 'growing' LOL, but here's some of the plants I've tried, some successful, some not so much. My record keeping is abysmal.

Arabis broyoides
Dodecathein meadia 'Alba'
Dryas octopetala v. angustifolia
Gentiana septemfida
Helicrysum sessiloides
Hepatica nobilis
Heuchera pulchella
Penstemon caespitosus 'Claude Barr'
Rununculus eschscholtzii
Saxifraga 'Winifred Bevingtion'
Sedum hispanicum v. minus 'Aureum'
Sempervivum
Ulmus parvifolia 'Davidii'

There are more but if I don't have them written down somewhere... well...

Having lost plants over the years to the desiccating Chinook winds, I try to throw a bit snow on the troughs to (hopefully) protect them a bit.
Beyond a little snow on them, it's survival of the fittest out there.
I actually get a bigger kick out of making troughs than growing them.

~GC

Actually, this is probably about 90% of what I have for trough material. Some are just seedlings, and there is always things not listed that have come and gone-like my more poor Rhodiola. I wish I had jack rabbits intead of cottentails. Somehow they seem to be less enamoured by exotics.

Draba athoa
Erinus alpinus
Gypsophila bungeana
G. aretoides
Achillea teretifolia
Antennaria alpina
A.howeli ssp. nedoioca
A.rosea var. confinus
A.neglecta var. gaspensis
Aster coloradoensis
Esobaria viviparia
Pediocactus simpsonii
Delospermum nubigeum
Hesperis kotschyi
Linaria tristis
Pnstemon hirsutus var. pygmaeus
Iris pumila 4-6inches
Veronica gentiana
V. armena
Saxafraga crusata
Semiaquilegia ecalcarata
Adiantum venustum
Buxus sempervirens
Buxus sinica(microphylla) var. koreana
Hosta venusta
Fragaria vesca Ruegen no runners on mine
Hepatica americana
Iris cristata
Mentha requienii
Vancouveria hexandra
Betula nana
Sedum obtusifolium
Sempervivum 'Bronco'
S. 'May Imp'
S. 'Red Ace'
Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Minima'
Picea abies 'Kellerman's Blue Cameo'

With respect to hardiness, everything I have I expect or hope to be hardy here, but not in little pots sitting on the ground all winter. So they all go in my box. It's nice because I can go out on a "warm" day in January, open it up and pull out some bloodroot, or whatever for forcing. If I may gloat, one March our Society's banquet program was on Iris; I forced a dozen of my 5 inch Iris pumila and the timing couldn't have been better.

And Lori, I would not call that parasitic - joining NARGS for the seed exchange. It's in their mission statement to "get the word out and promote rock gardening" or some such similar. Seems to me like that's what happens if you buy their seed.

About donating to the seed exchange, I would encourage you Far Northers especially to participate, even if you think your plants are common. There is a good chance your strain is more cold hardy. If there is a lot of seed, what happens is your seed will get mixed with others. And everyone will have a chance at your really good stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if the seed exchange volunteers would take note of your area, and offer it as a seperate choice for those who need the extra cold hardiness.

Rick

Thanks for all of this great info everyone. I love all of the pictures of the troughs and plants. I need to check this forum more often.

Rick,
In the picture above, with your enclosure completely covered for the winter, is that Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' that I see? (I think it's now called Xanthocyparis).

Sorry, this isn't rock garden related, but I took cuttings of my Metasequoia, Thuja occidentalis 'Filiformis', T. o. 'Aurea' and Chamaecyparis pisifera filifera 'Aurea' (was 'Gold Spangle') today. I made the cuttings larger than normal so I wouldn't need to wait so long for larger plants. I used Hormex #8 and I wounded everything. I have my fingers crossed. I've never taken dormant cuttings of Metasequoia before and if this is a success I should have 18 or so rooted by the time the warm weather arrives.)
Thanks,
Mike

Well, that makes me feel better re. the NARGS seed list ;) - thanks, Rick! Yes, I will follow through on donating seeds in fall. What an incredible undertaking it must be to organize the seed exchange...is there any useful service towards it that one could provide from a remote location?

Wow, the Gypsophila aretioides looks particularly fascinating - as though it just flows over the rocks!

GardenChicken, don't worry - I have to admit I've sacrificed many innocent little lives, to wind up with the current list that has shown some staying power... sigh!
Though we've had these troughs for years, I realize that two things have been most responsible for suddenly piquing my interest in rock gardening/alpines - getting a digital camera (so becoming more aware of bloom times and lengths), and finally, doing a lot more hiking in the Rockies (can't believe how lucky I am to see these places!)

I continue to be inspired by all this information and the photos. someday, I'm going to try a trough or something smaller.

Yes Mike, I prefer Cupressus nootkatensis (because that is what Resin thinks). Most impressive as I had it for 6 or 7 years. But alas, it is gone now. Good luck on your rooting. Do you always use such a high concentration for the Chamaecyparis? 8000ppm seems like overkill to me. I use 3000 to 5000ppm, and that's in the summer!
Rick

And a note for Lori: do look at the NARGS seed donor recommendations. It will be in the Bulletin this spring. They prefer you send seed throughout the summer as you collect, rather than just in the fall. Closing date is rather early, unless you have wild seed.
Rick

Hi Rick,
Yes, I do, ever since Silver Vista (Susan, in the conifers forum) said that I should use a high IBA # when trying to root dormant cuttings. I used # 8 on everything today because of her recommendation.

When I have used # 3 in the past, I've had spotty results. I have also not wounded anything, previously, so I am anxious to see if the percentage of cuttings that root this year increases over previous years.

I have not successfully rooted any of the C. p. f. 'Aurea' cuttings that I have taken in previous years. 'Nana' roots just fine, but not 'Aurea'.

I'll keep you posted...
Thanks,
Mike

And now, back to the growing-troughs discussion...