I don't know -- but if you find a way (other than Roundup -- and I'm doubtful even THAT works) -- to eliminate Bermuda Grass, PLEASE SHARE IT!

There are chemicals specifically for that, like Grass B Gone (Fluazifop-butyl) but it has not been that effective here and it's pretty nasty stuff (See link).

I think that, after the World Comes To An End, Bermuda Grass will survive. And I curse whoever planted it here.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: FlooziFlop toxicity Info.

Don't try to cover the bermuda grass with newspaper and mulch over it. I tried this and it smothered everything but the bermuda grass, which then filled in the space completely. Landscape fabric works somewhat better, but the grass runs under the fabric to emerge at the base of your plants. Roundup does work, but you have to keep applying it, and it only works when the grass is actively growing. You can try digging out the sunny strip and backfilling with new soil. But I don't think you can completely eradicate bermuda grass.

FJ:

I had a similar problem with Queen Anne Lace. I don't know if/or how comparable they are. I did not want to use Round Up to get rid of it and the stuff was really well established. So last year I went out to that bed and just started digging to get as much of the plants and roots out as I could. I did this three times in the fall and then put a thick layer of compost down, covered with landscape fabric, covered the fabric with bricks and asked Mother Nature to be kind to me:)

This spring there was and still is some QAL poking through. But I'm slowly winning the battle. I just have to go out once a month and dig out the roots. Everytime I go on an eradication mission there is a little less to remove. I hate Round Up with a passion and this was my solution for avoiding the use of it.

Hope this helps.

Kate

Fj, the only real way i have found to control weeds and plants is with other plants. It seems if there is a bare spot something will grow. Are you wanting to plant roses there? If so i would just plant them. allium really looks nice with roses, i even planted some this fall in some rose beds and hope they take off like yours. I tried some grass killer this summer on my iris's, but i didn't have any sticker or horticultural oil to add with it. Next year.

The trouble with Bermuda Grass is that the runners go, like, 6 ft below ground. Maybe more.
It's almost impossible to dig it out, because it can come back from almost nothing.

I heard a tale of an attempt at removal. IIRC, they treated with roundup repeatedly, then dug out the soil 8 or so ft down. Then they backfilled with clean topsoil.

Then they sodded with good new sod.

Inside a year, the Bermuda Grass was back.

Jeri

Cardboard will break down slower, and will deter growth longer, than newspapers. The fact Bermuda grass sends out such long runners makes it difficult for anything to suppress it's growth. This will take time, patience, and determination.

Bermuda grass will return unless you take EXTREME measures. I would remove everything you can now, and plan on constantly removing the returning sprouts for several years. Seriously, as everyone else says, it's really difficult to get rid of. A layer of cardboard or newspaper is just wistful thinking.

Burmuda grass is awful. We just recently moved out of our home we lived in for 13 years, when we moved in 13 years ago we, or should I say my hubby planted burmuda grass, I had so much trouble with that grass. It was heck trying to keep it out of my rose beds, there is no way to kill that stuff it is the devils grass. When we moved I dug up sevaral rose bushes ( I could not take them all I had 94 roses) and put them in huge black containers. I had to choose the ones that I really liked or the ones that had a significant meaning to me. When we got to our new home I noticed a week later that the dam grass was growing in the containers with the roses I brought. I am still trying to pull it out. It grew around the roots of the roses I have to make sure all the grass is gone before I plant.
So if you find a solution please share it because that grass is a beast to get rid of.
Good Luck
Carrie

Carrie, can you bare root those roses?
Completely?
It's a draconian solution, but that might be a lot better than injecting
Bermuda Grass into your new garden.

Jeri

I must be the only one who likes Bermuda grass! Our house had Bermuda grass when we moved in and I just think it is beautiful! I love how soft it is and how green we can keep it! Funny thing is, this year it all died! I could have just cried! We can't figure out what happened to it and everyone we ask tells us what all of you are saying - that it is almost impossible to kill it! If I ever figure out how we did it I will let all of you know. Hopefully ours will come back.

Hello FJ,

The ways to kill bermuda are by: extreme heat, water deprivation, oxygen deprivation, freeze, and herbicides. There are two things that are far more insidious in my area than bermuda grass. They are nut grass (actually a sedge, not a grass) and bindweed. I have had to use herbicides on them to get rid of them. My solution to get rid of bermuda requires no herbicide, and it is very similar to Kate's way of getting rid of QAL:

I have cleared away about 4,000 sq ft of bermuda in the past five years to make way for my vegetable garden and rose beds. It has taken a lot of time and effort, but it works. I dug up the sod, separated as much of the grass from the soil as possible, threw away the grass, kept the area grass-and-root-free, tilled, and dry for a winter, then tried to put off planting perennials in the area until I was sure the grass was gone. When I planted my roses the first Spring, I dug the holes deeper and wider than the planting instructions told me to, to be certain there were no grass roots there. I only had one small spot where the grass was persistent, and it was sprouting under two roses. With the advice from my local nurseryman, I tried a product from Fertilome called "Over the Top". It worked reasonably well on the grass, but I won't use it anymore because it also damaged the rose that got the largest dose. The rose is still there, and finally doing well. Since then, I have always waited an extra year before putting perennials where there had been bermuda grass.

Although I haven't used plastic to kill bermuda, I have seen it done. It works well if applied in such a way that it smothers the grass completely (or bakes it in the summer). If you need to get started right away so that you can be sure the grass is gone in the Spring, you might apply the plastic for two weeks, then dig up the bed to throw away all the grass and roots that you can. After that, you can apply compost and well-composted manure and work them into the soil. Just remember that too much manure applied too near planting time will burn and kill plants.

Like Karl said: time, patience, and determination.

Good luck,
Gary

I read in a gardening magazine that very thick black plastic held down with bricks or rocks works very well because the heat and lack of light will cook anything underneath it and a bonus is that all that rotting grass turns into nice soil. I've never tried it but it does seem to make sense. You do have to keep the plastic down for quite some time, probably at least a few months. I suppose summer would be a good time to do it because of the heat. I've had good success putting down left-over 18-inch floor and bathroom tiles over small grassy areas. After a few weeks the grass was dead and did not regrow.

Ingrid

Sorry to discourage the black-plastic or newspaper advocates, but I tried smothering bermuda and just made it annoyed. Weeks of that treatment left me with a weedy grassy mess that was worse than the bermuda turf I started with.
Digging it out and following with Roundup and mulch have actually worked for me.

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Alas, this is my only sunny area and it is very established. I cannot dig out all my roses and empty the top soil. I guess I have to somehow live with them.

FJ

My attempts to destroy weeds and unwanted plants with black plastic have been very successful. I did allow plenty of time, often over the winter or the whole summer. I was rewarded with bare soil in the areas covered and no weed regrowth. Most often failure is the result of not allowing enough time and being in a hurry. Nature does things in her own good time. Trying to rush Mother Nature most often results in failure!

It is possible to get rid of Bermuda, but no one thing works for everyone. You see here many people saying that newspaper doesn't work, but that is exactly how my grandmother in Alabama got rid of bermudagrass in her yard. It took her 20 years to clear 2 acres however. Little by little. And you do have to leave it covered for a LONG time. She'd spray it first with Roundup and then cover it.

If you are planning on planting right now, no it won't work. Every method takes months to succeed. And I think that little wild onion (I know the one you're talking about) will push through newspaper. You'd need a plastic tarp, or a few layers of heavy cardboard. I've had tulips and thistle push through cardboard.

I've also had bentgrass (similar creeping habit to bermuda grass) grow out from under newspaper and cardboard, and creep in between the layers so you have to pile it on thick with tons of overlap.

Digging it now when it's going dormant will be relatively successful. Spraying with Roundup will work best usually in spring, when it's actively growing. However I used to have a bermudagrass lawn, and it died one year, and I think I had sprayed weeds in it the previous fall with Roundup, thinking that if the bermuda was dormant then it wouldn't be hurt, but the whole lawn died. Seems that if your intention is to kill the bermuda, it won't die; but if your intention is to just weed it, it dies when sprayed.

I did once create a shrub border out of a bermudagrass lawn, by simply digging out the grass, but it was only a 4ft wide border on two sides of the lawn. Then I put in edging material to help me keep the lawn edged, and then it was a relatively simple, if never-ending, task to weed the new sprouts of bermuda out of the shrub border. Ironically, the neighbor had been complaining about our bermuda creeping into his lawn and ruining it; and once I had that border in between the two lawns, most of the bermuda creeping into the border was coming from the neighbor's side! I'm sure he considered it payback if he thought of it at all.

I used tree chips from arborist's chippers to cover cardboard when covering weeds. It's cheaper than compost and mulch (usually free) and you can pile it on several inches thick. Other materials to consider are those ubiquitous blue plastic tarps, and carpet remnants. Both work well at smothering weeds.

I bought coffee bean sacks off eBay, $2 each, and cut a slit half way thru them, this left the sack cloth double thickness when in position around a rose, these were used to cover the root area around a rose bush. On this sack I placed 4 12" floor tile, $2 each, covering the sack in a nice square of tile. This makes a tight cover over the root area and kills out all weeds and grass, what tiny bit slips thru is easy to pull up. Also the lawn around the roses is easy to keep neatly trimmed. Since it is so hot here I used light color tile, I'll bet black tile would be great up north, give a quick start in the spring by warming the root area.Anyway, it sure helps keeping the B grass down!

When we used a lawn service, we were inundated with Bermuda grass. No easy solutions had any affect. I just soaked a small area deeply, then pulled each plant out slowly, trying not to break the roots. And some of those roots were long! Then I did the same area again, and again (and maybe more) and finally cleared the area.

Also, most of the recommended uses for black plastic require fairly high heat. Does it get very hot where you are? We're in view of the ocean, and a master gardener dissuaded me from trying to sterilize my soil with black plastic, as it doesn't get hot enough here. We seldom get above 75 degrees in the summer.

Maureen