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jaxondel

SDLM Sports

17 years ago

In addition to Souv. de la Malmaison, I grow these varieties that have sported from her: Kronprincessin Viktoria, Souv. de St. Anne's and Mystic Beauty (actually a sport of KV). A friend is attempting to root cuttings of Capitaine Dyel de Graville for me, so I hope to add that one to my garden soon.

Are there other sports of SDLM out there that I'm unaware of?

Comments (16)

  • 17 years ago

    I think Mystic Beauty is Pat Henry's find on one of her SdlMs, not KV.
    Do you have the climbing version of SdlM? It is very large and interesting in how is is so strong and tall, really tall.

    There are one or two more, depending on the ARS decisions of a given year. SdlM rouge does make a more pink rose than SdlM.There is another rose (name slips my mind right now) that may be a synonym of SdlM Rouge, but in some books from the mid 1800s is listed as a separate cultivar.

  • 17 years ago

    Jaxondel,
    There are a few more sports of SdlM:
    1. Mme. Cornelissen
    2. Mlle. Berthe Clavel
    3. Mlle. Marie-Thérèse de la Devansaye
    Marina

  • 17 years ago

    SDLM is outstanding. KV was not as good for us at first, but I have been told to try again. What about the other roses? If they are being sold, do the others have the outstanding qualities of SDLM, or are they rather mediocre?

    SAmmy

  • 17 years ago

    Souvenir de St. Anne's is like SDLM in growth habit and rebloom. The blooms have the same fragrance and are the same blush pink, but only loosely semi-double, as lovely in their simplicity. A superior plant in my zone 7A garden.
    KV does require more amending to the soil than SDLM. I find mine does better with strong pruning each spring and when it starts to looking puny.
    My SDLM Rouge is a nice plant, but I don't see it is of the same quality as SLDM, much more prone to mildew.
    Cl. SDLM gives a great spring flush, but I find the blooms are much more prone towards balling. The rest of the year, the plant looks rather weedy, it is not my favorite SDLM sport by a long shot.
    Mme. Cornelissen is a larger plant than SDLM, more the size of KV. The blooms are not of SDLM quality, but have a different charm, well worth growing.
    I have found that I cannot expect the same from the sports as the original. There is only one SDLM.

  • 17 years ago

    Jaxondel,

    You are correct that RU's 'Mystic Beauty' first appeared on a plant of 'Kronprinzessin Viktoria' (itself a sport of SDLM).

    Other than the 4 varieties you've named, the only available SDLM sport I'm aware of is the white/pink blend 'Madame Cornelissen', which often is listed erroneously as yet another Bourbon, 'Edith de Murat' (refer to Vintage Gardens' descriptions of those two roses).

    Several old sources mention 2 other SDLM sports: 'Mademoiselle Marie-Therese Devansaye' (white or white blend) and 'Mademoiselle Berthe Clavel' (yellow/pink blend). Both are presumed to be extinct.

    If there was once a 'SDLM Rouge', it appears that it no longer exists. The rose that's often labeled as 'SDLM Rouge' is actually 'Leveson Gower' (aka 'SDLM Rose'). Genetic testing has demonstrated that 'Leveson Gower' is NOT an SDLM sport (check Matt's remarks under Comments & Questions on HMF's 'Leveson Gower' page).

    One further note: In the catalog of its collection, Ashdown lists 'White Souv. de la Malmaison', stating that this "all white" sport was given to them by the noted rosarian, Kim Rupert. I'm assuming that this variety is distinct from 'Kronprinzessin Viktoria' whose white blooms usually have a creamy/yellowish cast.

    There may be other sports that I'm not aware of. If so, I hope we'll learn about them here. SDLM and its sports are among my very favorite roses. Jaxondel, I hope your friend's attempt to root 'Capitaine Dyel de Graville' succeeds. It's really a very special rose. Like all members of the clan, however, it gets better and better with age, so give it 3 or 4 years to come into its own (esp if you're starting out with a small band-sized plant).

  • 17 years ago

    I have both Leveson-Gower and a rose I purchased as SDLM Rouge. They are quite different in growth habit and foliage, L-G smaller and more spreading, with smaller foliage and flower, lighter of cane. My SDLM is of a vigorous, upright growth. The flowers are much the same, with SDLM Rouge larger bloom and more prone to balling.

  • 17 years ago

    I wish Jon in Wessex would respond to this he wrote a very informative & humorous piece a few years ago about the Historical Lewison Gower- Lozshun Gore (approximate pronunciation from my poor memory)
    Roses do get mixed up in marketing and identification.
    My Kronprincessin has been sporting for 3 to 4 years now somtimes chimera mixed pink ad white somtimes rather large light pink blooms. I have never been able to root a cutting of it

  • 17 years ago

    My Kronprincessin also sports white/pink mix. I can get the cutting to root, but it will not repeat the mutation reliably.

  • 17 years ago

    The pink bloom cane is consistent on the Kronprincessin and produces only pink there is a picture of it in the gallery area it also sporadically makes the mixed color blooms it is own root so it's not caused by grafting and the solid pink blooms do not have the Kronprincessin form.

  • 17 years ago

    Kaye from Arkansas should chip in here - she loves SDLM and all of her sports.
    I have Kronprincessin Viktoria and don't much like it. Not much scent. But there's nothing wrong with it and I'll never get rid of it.
    SDLM is a favorite.
    The SDLM Rouge that I have (from Kaye) is very low growing. This rose and Kronprincessin are the 2 shortest roses I grow, including the minis and groundcovers I've grown. The SDLM Rouge has a completely unique scent of any rose that I grow and it is delicious. It should be grown for scent alone (but it's also healthy and beautiful and a good repeater!). And yes, mildew was worse on this rose than on any other this year.
    I've seen Capitaine Dyel many times at Kaye's house, and for one reason of the other it never struck my fancy. Probably a lack of scent.

  • 17 years ago

    My SDLM rouge came from Sequoia. It is very short, and prone to mildew, but I like it very much. Rebloom is exceptional, better than SDLM. I like Mme. Cornelisson very much for the subtlty of coloring, scent and rebloom.

  • 17 years ago

    Yep Kaye sent me Capt Dyel de Graville a few years back for which I will always be grateful it has stayed about 3 ft but Kron Princessin is about 5 ft tall and quite full as is SDLM.

  • 17 years ago

    In his book, "The Old Rose Advisor, Vol I", Brent Dickerson includes 'Souvenir de la Malmaison Rouge' among roses that are now extinct. Given my own futile attempts to acquire 'SDLM Rouge', I have to conclude that Dickerson is correct. The several erzatz Rouges I've purchased over the years have turned out to be identical to either 'Leverson-Gower' (as supplied by Vintage) or to the original SDLM.

    My experience with 'Leveson-Gower' is opposite of what Greybird describes above. There are indeed differences in growth habit and foliage, but I've found L-G's growth habit to be much more vigorous (ie, taller) than SDLM's. Another distinguishing feature of L-G is the impressive crop of hips it produces.

  • 17 years ago

    About 2 years ago, there was a sport on one of my SDLM Rouge (Leveson Gower ARS)that was an exact replica of SDLM. Always makes me wonder about the genetic makeup..

    I have at least 2 plants of each of the available sports, not all from the same supplier.

    Madame Cornelissen is at the top of the list for me along with KpV. They are both bloom machines and excellent repeaters here. 2 Capitaine Dyel (from 2 different sources) perform totally differently in the same conditions, one being a much stronger bloomer and grower than the other. While Carrie can't remember the Capitaine's scent, to me it's the strongest of all the family..on the right day. They, like most of the kin, take several years to build.

  • 17 years ago

    Jaxondel, I am sorry, looks like your thread has been hijacked.

    Kaye,
    Who is your supplier for Capitaine Dyel de Graville? Sounds like an interesting sport.

    As for my SDLM Rouge, I bought it on eBay and the growth habit is much like my original SDLMs. But I have seen nothing but the medium-rose color blooms. My Leveson-Gower was from Vintage Gardens. The two are so different in bloom size and growth habit.
    Also, I might just have a weak-sister L-G. It has been very slow to take off, and I have not been able to get the cuttings to propagate.
    The "SDLM Rouge" has been a vigorous grower, much like the original, and as easy to propagate.
    SDLM likes to sport, who knows, maybe the original sport is extinct and a new sport identical to the first, arises?

  • 17 years ago

    Lots of interesting information here, so I'm glad the thread was hijacked! ;)

    Too bad Mlle Berthe Clavel is extinct. The coloration of that sport sounds especially appealing. Does anyone know if a botanical print of her exists?

    Thanks for all the responses. Now I'm off to HMF to search for a supplier of Madam Cornelissen.

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