I don't know, but it doesn't seem right to plant a rose without alfalfa. You're going to keep it watered, and it will break down and do its stuff. Your ground isn't going to freeze down to the bottom of the hole anytime soon, is it? Even if it does, it'll thaw in the spring, right?

Sherry (a Floridian who knows nothing about frozen ground)

Last couple years, haven't y'all up there had some pretty cold weather????
Freezing temps? Snow?

Jeri

I always heard organics did not do much in cold soil so I only use it in spring and summer.

Hi Lynnette, glad you are still at it.Since triacontanol is a growth stimulant, it seems like fall application might either cause an unwanted result or cause that factor of alfalfa to be wasted. However, you would get the benefit of the 3% slow nitrogen and other nutrients in alfalfa, which is a complete 3-1-2 fertilizer.

Probably the best way to get the triacontanol effect is to put the meal right under the mulch or mixed into the duff in spring and summer. Tc is nearly insoluble and you are hoping to get a tiny amount into the feeder roots.

I don't know about the PNW, but here in southeast Georgia, we don't add that stuff until we plant in the spring. The material that creates feeder roots over the winter is potassium, not alfalfa meal.

I thought the tricontanol was formed when the alfalfa meal was fermented in water...so it's there anyway?

hoovb, yes it's there anyway. There is much controversy about whether the tea does anything more than just stink.

Organics, including Alfalfa meal, take time to break down and release their nutrients. Using it in late fall in cold growing zones means it would be available to the plant in spring when growth occurs. If used too early in the fall, nutrients released quickly could stimulate growth which would be killed by winter's cold temps. Used now it shouldn't be a problem.
Alfalfa tea, makes those nutrients available quickly. Just laying alfalfa meal on the ground or placing it in the planting hole means the nutrients won't be released until sufficent moisture causes it to happen. This could mean weeks or months depending on your soil type and amount of moisture. There is little soil warmth in the root area in cold growing zones. A warm winter day that may cause a little thawing would only affect the upper most layer of soil and not cause any release of nutrients that would promote growth.
I'd add it now and use it as a drench in spring. There are so few nutrients in it that doing it twice, meal in fall and a drench in spring won't be too much.

I always add alfalfa meal to the hole when I plant a rose. This time of year it will not do much good because the soil is cooling and the microbes are shutting down for the winter. If you put the meal in the hole at planting time it will be there in the spring when the soil warms up.

Lance

I have 120 gal of alfalfa tea which I fermented 2 mos ago and just forgot. Can I still use it? My roses are covered with 8 inches hard wood chips. I hate to throw it away and I have to empty them before they freeze and split.

It's true that organic materials like alfalfa meal don't do much in cold soil. That's part of their beauty. Organic materials have to be processed by soil microbes, whose activity is temperature dependent. You could wait til it's warm enough and then add alfalfa, but the plant won't get the nutrients until the soil microbes have had time to work it over. It seems best to add organics in fall, giving soil microbes plenty of time to process and break down the material into plant nutrients, before the plant actually needs the nutrients in spring. I've done this for years with my lawn - spread an organic-based lawn fertilizer in late October, and I get the thickest greenest lawn in the neighborhood in spring. (which also means I'm out there mowing before anyone else, but oh well.)

Where chemical synthetic fertilizers wash away quickly, especially in cold rainy weather like we get all winter long, the organic materials don't wash away but are ready to go as soon as the plants are ready to grow in spring.

It doesn't even matter if your soil freezes in winter or not. Fall additions of organics will still work just fine. Go ahead and put the alfalfa in the planting hole. It's not going to go bad, or wash away, or be wasted. It will just sit there all winter long until the soil starts to warm up in early spring. You can also use the tea in spring although I wouldn't use tea now.

Thanks for all the good information. I will use the 120 gal of alfalfa tea as soon as we have a warm spell and the snow melts. The soil will remain plenty cold enough to prevent activation of the alfalfa tea and will become active when the soil warms in the spring. I've had similar results with Osmocote and Rose Tone which I use in Nov. I have over 100 roses in my garden.