I tried the gritty mix. Too dry for az unless you are retired and can water it every 2 hrs in the summer. It works on my succulents that are in the patio shade. You can just go with good potting soil and mix in some perlite for better drainage with non- succulents.

Thanks, that's what I just did. I got a big bag of perlite and some potting soil.

What about succulents and cactus, can I use potting mix, sand and perlite?

Al,

That sounds pretty good. but I have a question. How do you check the moisture of the soil, would the screwdriver test work?

I personally like the palm & cactus mix in the red bag from Home Depot. I use it for almost everything I have in pots and has done very well for me.

To test soil moisture content toward the bottom of the container, you can push a 1/4" wood dowel that was sharpened in a pencil sharpener deep into the soil. If it comes out wet or cool/moist, there probably is no need to water. Alternately, use a short wick through the drain hole & let the pot sit on the wick. If the wick is moist, no need to water.

One of the good things about soils that don't hold perched water is, it's pretty difficult to over water. You can do it if you work at it, but if the soil is well-aerated from top to bottom, there should be no limiting effect from lack of O2; and with no perched water to be concerned about, the chance of root rot getting a hold is pretty remote - as long as you exercise reasonable judgment.

The grower might not appreciate a soil that requires a little more frequent watering than the water-retentive brands off the shelf, but well-aerated soils that require more frequent watering unquestionably offer better opportunity for your plants to grow to their potential. Most soil disagreements arise because the parties look at growing from two different perspectives. One is 'what's good for the grower', the other is 'what's best for the plant'. More often than not, the perspectives are mutually exclusive. Once you define how you want to approach growing, it makes decision making easier.

Al

Al, I was able to locate the bark and Floor Dry but I have a hard time finding the granite, can I use perlite instead? If not what else should I try?
Also for the AZ heat of 100 to 110 summers, what do you think would work best, 3-4-2 or 3-5-1 mix?

Thanks for all your help.

I use both the gritty mix and the 5-1-1(or more of a variation of it) in Tucson. I love both and would never switch back to a bag mix. I have citrus, herbs, flowers, tomato's, peppers, and gourds. And I don't need to water more than once a day. I too had a hard time finding the granite :-/ I have used perlite and pumice as subs, but will let Al explain further on how. It's been awhile since I've been here and worry I may give the wrong advice.

Al,
Good to see you in this corner. ;-)
JJ

Thanks JJ, so even in the summer with the 1-1-1 mix you water one a day?

Hi Mike..
Yes, I only water once a day. Some of my plants do wilt, but that's just how it is in AZ. :-) they perk back up as soon as the sun starts to set.

I have Rosemary going on 2 yrs in the 1-1-1 and mint in same pot. I have Citrus and mint in another, and lavender. I adjust my 5-1-1 according to what type plants will be going in.

I even sprout seeds in the 5-1-1

I use turface for the 1-1-1, and have had to sub items due to not being able to find granite. I like pumice better than perlite in the 1-1-1 , and prefer pumice in the 5-1-1 over perlite, depending on what I have on hand. But each holds a different amount of moisture.

If you can't find pumice, it is sometimes sold in feed stores as "Dry Stall"

I've been away for awhile, and when it comes to my mixes, I just do what I feel I need, but when it comes to explaining I am not the best in getting out what I need to explain. :-/

I will let a friend or 2 know you still had questions and see if I can get you some more help here.

Al gets busy with work and all so he sometimes has a hard time getting through garden web. :-) I'll give him a shout for you and or/ Josh.

Let me see what I can do for you :-)
JJ

Thanks a bunch JJ, I appreciate all the help.

I am going to a feed store I found not to far and see if they have granite and I will look for pumice or Dry stall.

JJ - where do you buy the stuff for the 5-1-1? I've been wanting to repot a pepper and some citrus using the 5-1-1, but haven't had much luck finding the pine bark fines (I'm also in Tucson). Granted, I haven't gone out looking - just asking when I'm someplace that seems likely - but still, no luck.

Also, since you're local, do you add potting lime? Our water here is so hard, but I know there are subtleties about what minerals are actually available in hard water.

All parts being equal, Perlite holds much more moisture than Granite, and so you would use less Perlite to retain the same moisture as the basic mix.

Josh

Thanks Josh!

One more question... I don't remember what you had told me about the pumice ? More or less moisture than Perlite..I would think more. ?? I need to make new mixes this season.

Kirklaf
I'm sorry! I thought I had replied~
It's been 2 yrs since I last got supplies, but at that time John Deere Tractor on Ina was the best place to get the bark!

I have gotten a bag or 2 of composted Mulch at home depot but you really have to look good some have a lot of sap wood!

I haven't found a decent granite, so I use pumice or Perlite.. depending on what I have on hand.
Pumice can be found at OK feeds as "Dry Stall" at Dodge and Ft. Lowell.

Mesquite Valley Growers has beautiful fir bark, but it's not cheap :-)

Hope that helps
JJ

Yes, I add the lime, just not much. :-)

Thanks, JJ - definitely helpful!

I actually asked the last time I was at MVG, but no one mentioned the fir bark. I'll call John Deere and see if they still carry it.

Kirklaf~
At MVG I never asked, I just looked around. The bags were on a shelf near the check out with other mixes .

At John Deere, I has asked for pine bark fines around 5/8".

:-)

Hey, JoJo! Regarding the moisture retention of Perlite versus Pumice.....it really depends on the particular Pumice. Some Pumice has very fine pores and holds a lot, whereas other Pumice has larger pores and doesn't hold much at all. The other consideration is that Perlite only holds moisture on its exterior surface, while Pumice can hold moisture throughout.

Josh

Hi Josh!
Thanks! That's what I was thinking but need a refresher course. ;-) You know I haven't made a mix in about 3 yrs now. :-/ I am using Dry Stall from the feed store. Haven't gotten out to search for what you use. )I love the color of it! )

I have an old bath tub that needs filled for gourds and Melons, so I am thinking of going with pumice in that.

JoJo

I was able to find Poultry Grit at Pet Club, its made by Nature Wise, 7 lb. about $7.
I also got NAPA floor dry and Repti Bark. I have some window screen that is 1/16 I think so I have to find some 1/8 and should be ready to make my first batch of the mix.

I have a hard time finding pumice or "Dry Stall" (a couple of stores looked at me kindda funny when I asked)

For the 5-1-1 I got perlite, and it looks like HD sells some big bags of pine bark. Any ideas where to get the sphagnum moss? Any substitutes that would be easier to find? Another item that is hard to find. Anything else that I missed? I will be using Foliage Pro as fertilizer.

Thanks for all the help everyone.
Michael

Hi Michael,
the 1/8 " is often sold at hardware stores as "Hardware Cloth" and some people also find it online in Bonsai screens.

I found the spag. peat moss at wal mart a few years back , just a small bag . I think Home depot had large bales, not sure how much you will need.

I will have to look and see if we have a pet club here. Grit has been the toughest for me to find!

Where is San tan Valley? I've heard of it, but not sure where you are. (Just curious ) :-)

Are horses not popular where you are? lol... DId you try feed stores, or do you have them in your area?
Dry stall is to absorb moisture in barns that's why I ask.

JoJo

Hi JoJo,

An update: I ordered a bonsai scren set of ebay and it should be here today.
I found a huge bag of peat moss at LoweâÂÂs and got it yesterday.
Crushed granite, I got lucky and I stopped by a rock landscape place by my house, $5 for HD five gallon bucket (cash and carry). It is called 1/4 minus, needs to be screened and washed but it looks good. I bet you should have one around town there.

I found a big feed store a few miles from me and plan on going there early next week and see about Dry stall.

The hardest time I have is finding the bark, Repti Bark is quite expensive and so the search continues.

San Tan Valley is just south of Mesa, Apache Junction, next to Queen Creek.

Thanks a bunch for all your help. I am tempted to take a trip to Tucson just for the bark. :-)

Michael

Well, yesterday I used the gritty mix for the first time. I put a persian lilac seedling in the gritty mix (3-4-2) and a spider plant in 1-1-1. I am a bit scared as to how often to water since within a couple of hours the wick on the bottom was dry. I watered again and this morning dry again, so I watered again. Is this normal? The summer heat is not here yet and I am a bit worried about watering. Also the spider plant does not look too good, it is wilted quite a bit.

I plan on putting some vincas in the 5-1-1 and see how that goes. I totally understand the benefits of the gritty mix but...are the plants going to make it if I water once a day?

Also when is good time to start fertilizing the new potted plants and how much. I also plan on moving my african violet and the peace lily in the gritty (1-1-1) but they will be inside.

Please someone help and build my confidence up...:(

Michael

Here is a picture of the Persian Lilac gritty mix (3-4-2) bark, turface, granite.

I was told on a different thread that I can use the bark fines (after screening) instead of peat in the 5-1-1, but it looks like there is quite a bit of sap wood in it. Would that be OK?

Ok. Is there anyone who can post exactly where they found each of the ingredients? Also what is 5-1-1? Willing to try one more time.

Hi toucan,

Where are you located?

Bark: I use Home Depot Earthgro Ground Cover. It has quite a bit of sap wood, but screening has good results. You have to look at the bags as they vary in size from batch to batch.

Turface: Ewing - they have three locations around the valley.

Granite: Any rock place has 1/4 minus crushed granite, $5 for a 5 gallon HD bucket.