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kimcoco

small tree for small yard?

16 years ago

What is the true definition of a patio tree? My own idea of a "patio tree" is maybe 15 feet in height, and something that doesn't sucker or uproot patio bricks, though I've seen larger trees advertised as "patio" trees, which throws me off.

I want an "ornamental" canopy tree for a small planting space, I will be planting this approx. 6 feet from the corner of my garage, in full to most sun.

1. I have rescue dogs, so poisonous fruit is out of the question. I prefer something that's not messy (like crabapples). Edible berries that attract wildlife is ok (provided most berries are taken by the birds). I have feeders to attract wildlife to my yard.

2. Provides dappled shade (preferred), NOT full shade, though a smaller tree should not be too much of a concern.

3. 10-15' in height with similar span/canopy is ideal, with top growth or something that can be trimmed up so that I don't have to duck when mowing the lawn. Of course, nothing that suckers.

4. Multi season interest would be nice, spring flowers perhaps. Yellow or white flowering are my favorite. Ideally, this will be placed as a focal point in my yard, so seasonal interest is a plus.

I know nothing about the following trees, but listed are those I came up with in my own research:

Eastern Redbud - this came up in my search as ideal for small spaces, tight spots, but I also read it can get up to 50' in height, which seems contradictory to me. Pros - nice fall color and pink spring blooms.

Cornus Mas aka Cornelian Cherry Dogwood - Nice yellow spring blooms. Will berries harm my dogs? They will likely sample any berries that drop.

Magnolia x Jane - cons - doesn't attract wildlife, no multi seasonal interest????? pros - Nice smaller size 10-15' height, ideal for small space. My grandma had a magnolia tree in her yard, and it was always loaded with earwigs. Is this a common pest for the tree? She lived by the lake, not sure if that played a role.

What about other flowering dogwoods for my zone? Pros? Cons? I read that many people have difficulty keeping them alive in zone 5....white flowering dogwoods are so pretty.

Suggestions and feedback welcome.

Comments (13)

  • 16 years ago

    Whats the soil and moisture like?

    I think you have better choices than the ones you listed above.

    For our area these are my top choices for multi-seasonal interest. I gave an example of some nice cultivars

    Amelanchier 'Autumn Brilliance'
    Malus 'Sugar Tyme'
    Viburnum prunifolium 'Summer Magic'

    All have nice white spring flowers.
    All have nice berries (need cross polinator for the viburnum)
    All have very good fall color (good on some Malus)

  • 16 years ago

    Serviceberry is also a top pick of mine and Amelanchier 'Autumn Brilliance' suckers less than most. I've had dogs for years and they've not been bothered by the berries. The birds pretty much pick them clean, but if you do get to them first, Serviceberry pie is delicious. Fall color on my x grandiflora is great.

    Cornus kousa would be my second choice but it might be a bit tight in that spot although in our zone 5 (northern edge of its range) it does grow slower and there are some smaller cultivars out there. It would benefit from some afternoon shade. Fall color this year was the best ever on my 'Satomi'

    tj

    Here is a link that might be useful: Autumn Brilliance Fact Sheet

  • 16 years ago

    Fringe tree (chionanthus virginicus) is a good choice for you. They are adaptable to a wide variety of soil types, and will even grow in poor soils. Also, unlike serviceberry, this tree will not sucker, so you won't have to worry about that. The height is between 12-20 ft., so it's a good size for your yard. It flowers in spring, and the flowers are extremely fragrant. If you have a male and a female, you'll also get fruit, which the birds will enjoy. This tree is also doesn't have any detrimental insect or disease problems (in fact insects almost never bother them, but they are slightly susceptible to scale and borer insects when under stress...meaning drought stress). Still, it is moderately drought tolerant which is worthy of praise.

  • 16 years ago

    Hey fellow Milwaukeean, my soil is somewhat clay.

    I too like the Serviceberry Autumn Brilliance, in fact, we already have this tree on our property. I think this specimen is too large for the placement and size I'm looking for, with a max. 25 foot span at maturity, correct me if I am wrong, my existing tree is only a sapling.

    I have a Popple / Quaking Aspen near the area I'm looking to plant a small tree, and a 25' span would likely compete or interfere with the aspen (we lop the top off each year to a managable height, and it grows wider than tall). Though I hate the Popple because it sends up runners around my yard, I don't have the heart to remove it as it provides much needed privacy for our patio. This one SHOULD have been the Serviceberry...LOL.

    I thought of Cornus Kousa, but can't remember why I ruled it out...

    I'm leary of crabapples...

    Definitely interested in the Fringe Tree - what a stunner, but I'm concerned about zone hardiness...I've seen it range from zone 4 to zone 6 in hardiness.

  • 16 years ago

    Fringe Tree is great, but doesn't have the 4-season interest of Serviceberry. I've got a bone-hardy Fringe Tree I bought from a Minneapolis-based nursery that is now out of business. The owners collected the seed, which must have been from a northern source, as I've tried others that died back to the ground. BTW, the fruit of serviceberry is incredibly tasty, even better than blueberry IMO.

  • 16 years ago

    Why would it matter where the seed of the fringe tree came from??

  • 16 years ago

    Only some types of Amelanchier sucker. As for the size, yes 25' is the max in optimal conditions. They are typically around 15' wide in our area after 15 years.

    If you think you like the Fringe Tree make sure you really like the habit and leaf texture. There is a no way to tell male from female. Doesn't get any appreciable fall color, late to leaf out and very slow growing. Either way its hardy to zone 4.

    Why are you leary of crabapples? There are many cultivars on the market that are highly disease resistant and are long lived for Rosecae.

    Kousa Dogwood is another good one, but yes they are typically zone 5 hardy. Sounds like you have a protected location so you should be ok.

    Minor's on 76th St. typically carries Kousa Satomi.

    tsugajunkie, I know its late now, but do you happen to have any pictures of your Satomi?

  • 16 years ago

    I have a few suggestions:
    Stewartia monodelpha needs supplemental moisture and a heavy mulch.
    Stewartia japonica (same cultural requirements as above)

    Xanthoceras sorbifolium (perfectly hardy despite any zone 6 references).

    Fontanesia fortunei (prune a single trunk - looks like bamboo).

    Acer japonicum 'Acontifolium' / 'Ogurayama' (very cold-hardy)

    Acer shirasawanum 'Autumn Moon' (very-hardy)

    Rhus chinensis (prune a single trunk 3 feet off the ground and let it grow). This species doesn't sucker much at all. Once a year you might need to clip one or a few suckers off. It's very easy to control.

    Heptacodium miconoides

    Dax

  • 16 years ago

    kimcoco- My Serviceberry is about 15-18yrs old and is about 10x10 (with morning sun only).

    whaas- I may have a pic of 'Satomi' in fall color. I'll look.

    tj

  • 16 years ago

    Tsuga - our Serviceberry is planted in an east facing location, with only morning sun. Wondering if yours has a more open habit? That's what I expect with mine in these conditions. How are the spring blooms and fall color for you? By any chance do you have any pictures you can share? I'd love to see a mature one in the landscape. We just planted ours earlier this year. I'd love to see pics of your Satomi as well.

    Milwaukeean, when I think of crabapples I think of a messy tree with lots of maintenance, maybe I'm wrong. I also think of a low branching tree, not ideal for the placement.

    Gardener, I'm on my second year with the heptacodium, can't wait for it to mature.

    My narrowed choices, though I'm leaning more towards the latter two:

    1. Fringe tree - lacks four season interest, late to wake up in spring

    2. Serviceberry Autumn Brilliance - seasonal interest, I have this already in my front yard

    3. Kousa Dogwood - other than the flower color, what are the primary differences between white flowered and Satomi? I'm planting this next to a purple leaf sandcherry, which of these do you think would compliment it more? Kousa Dogwood - are the berries messy? I read they prefer shade, my placement would be full sun, how will it fare in this condition?

  • 16 years ago

    I know your after Multi-seaonal interest but a Kousa Wolf Eyes would be quite striking with the Purple leaf Sandcherry.

    As for the Crabapple there are several cultivars that are upright. Look for persistant fruit...if you have birds the fruit will be gone before they hit the ground.

    My Autumn Brilliance Serviceberry is about 10' tall maybe 6' wide. Its not dense in regards to leaves but it is densely branched. It has a northern exposure...but next to the house. Gets sun in the morning and early evening as the sun sets.

    Fall color is a vibrant orangish red with a hint of yellow. The ones I saw at the Chicago Botanic gardens this fall had the same color.

    I'd have 50 Serviceberries if there was no need to diversify and I had the space. The curvy, smooth barked trunks are an added plus as well.

  • 16 years ago

    kimcoco- No pic of the Serviceberry. It is somewhat open. The blooms vary a bit but are never sparse. This year was the most abundant ever which is why I had enough for pie. Fall color always has orange, be it red-orange, yellow-orange or orange-orange.

    I still have to look for that 'Satomi' picture. To be honest, I would pick a white flowered kousa if I were to do it again. Though very healthy and a great form, 'Satomi' needs a cool spring to get a nice pink bloom which (suprisingly here) has only happened 3-4 times in the 9 years I've had it. Some years they're pure white, some years a light pink, and other years somewhat blotchy. Mine is about 15' from the east side of my house, so it is full sun til about 5:00pm in summer. No doubt more shade may have helped with getting pink blooms more often.

    tj

  • 16 years ago

    Milwaukee - I read the seeds on Wolf Eyes are poisonous, but the only place I could find this info is on Daves Garden...not sure how reliable this info is? But I agree, that one would be a stunner with the sandcherries. Not sure how it would fare in full sun though. I also thought of Salix Hakuro Nishiki on a standard, but I think this one will go at the front of my house.

    I'm tempted to yank out my popple and replace it with a serviceberry.

    I think I'll be planting the white flowered Kousa Dogwood for this new location, haven't made my mind up yet between this and the serviceberry.

    Thanks all...I'm starting a new thread.