I learned about "lion-tailing" the hard way, Palo Verde in this instance.

tomato, I hope you don't get discouraged from eucs. altogether. There are so many species to try, especially the smaller ones. I only have one currently (Euc. torquata- Coral gum). It drops a lot of small twigs and small seeds, but it shades my drive-way so I tolerate the messiness. I have such fond memories of the Euc. ficifolia that thrive in southern Cali.- big blooms of various colors in the summer (orange, red, pink)- awesome!

I don't have any experience with lysiloma, so I won't comment on them.

I hope I don't offend anyone, but I don't see what's so great about sissoo trees? I see them planted with greater frequency than a decade ago. I think people think they look like aspen trees, but they look anemic and weedy to me.

I kind of like Gleditsia (honeylocusts). I have two varieties: ruby lace (pictured) and sunburst. So far, the sunburst isn't as attractive in my yard as I've seen in cooler climates like Denver, but it's still just a twig.

I'm with you- I love trees. I want to try numerous oak species. So far I have a big Q. virginiana in my backyard and a potted holly oak I'm trying to decide where to put. Wondering what other southern oaks would survive/thrive here.

Rich, if I'd known then what I know now, I'd have chosen eucalyptus spathulata. I love the shape, the rusty red foliage, the smooth bark. But instead I have this monster and the one we cut down is putting out suckers and looking like a big bush. When it's cooler, we'll have to grind the stump out.

GS, what the heck is "lion-tailing"? Did you lose the PV you mentioned?

Here is a link that might be useful:

This post was edited by tomatofreak on Tue, Jul 23, 13 at 14:43

I found this on a website, it paints a better pic than I could:

Lion-tailing is over-pruning a tree by removing a large number of inner branches. The tree limbs will appear âÂÂlong and slenderâ with a âÂÂpuffâ of foliage at the end like a lionâÂÂs tail. LionâÂÂs-tailing can increase the risk of branch failure by weakening the tree root and eliminating the dampening effect that interior limbs provide when branches move during storms.

My PV had three main trunks, the second largest snapped sub-soil two years ago, and the smallest is wobbly to this day. I'm not sure it will ever really recover.

Never heard that term, but it's well-described there. That's not what happened to the DMPV, but you'd think - if you saw the 'lysilomas' - that we'd over-pruned those. Except we haven't. I just don't believe these are the trees I thought I bought. I'll try to get a photo and see what you all think.

Speaking of PV's, there's a very old one right on the property line in the back yard. It has fallen so many times I've lost count. We've cut and pruned and nothing improves this tree. I never want another one.

In my case, one of our living room walls is a 30' x 8' window (floor is about 5' above ground level) that provides a view of the McDowell's about a half mile distant, and the PV would get so thick it would obscure the view, so I would thin it out. Bad move apparently....

Here's a photo example of lion tailing - in this case a palo verde. As GermanStar mentioned, this is extremely bad for trees. Would you believe some folks think this is the way a tree is supposed to look?

Three weeks after this photo was taken a storm broke the two trunks and the landscape crew cut the rest of the tree down. All because of poor pruning in the first place.

DonâÂÂt allow anyone to âÂÂlion-tailâ a tree. If a tree needs thinning (and most don't - contrary to what many landscape companies will tell you) concentrate the pruning in the outer third of the canopy. Remove the obvious first - dead, crossing or broken branches - and never prune more than 25 percent of the living parts (leaves, branches, etc.,) in any year.

^ Now that is really extreme. My efforts didn't look unnatural at all. Learned my lesson though. Never again. Last couple years, I've cut the "tails" back some to try to restore balance to the force, and have not touched any of the suckers, some of which are replacing the inner branches now removed. Don't care much about branches growing straight up, but those large horizontal branches carrying a lot of weight at the end. I figure if I can reduce the mass at the end substantially in the spring, it should help the tree resist our wicked windstorms better.

Palo Verde Palm Tree.

More lion tailing. :-( ........soooo sad. Besides increasing the chances of damage from winds this also:

- removes inner foliage and branches that protect tree from sunburn.
- leaf removal basically starves the tree
- promotes the growth of watersprouts which are weakly attached and prone to break
- causes stress which makes trees vulnerable to insects and other pathogens
- removes shade = soil temperatures increase damaging tender roots

See link below for a humorous look at things that hurt trees.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to kill a tree

OMG, somebody find that 'trimmer' and take away ALL his tools. Maybe break his leg so he can't climb another tree? ;-0 WHO would allow someone to 'prune' a tree like this?

I think my fondness for multi-trunked trees may have contributed to the DMPV's demise - well, half of it anyway. However, not one of my chaste trees have lost as much as a limb, even in high winds. I think PV's are just wussy trees.

Desert Museum Palo Verde trees . . . falling over? (contemplating planting some).

could this be due to caliche underneath? D'yall have that?

Please don't let one person's experiences and opinion deter you from a beautiful tree. Slow, deep watering is key to all tree transplants here in the valley. By slow I mean: drip....drip....drip....drip - 4 hours on, 1 hour off, 4 hours on, 1 hour off, for 24 hours. Okay, you can sleep and make the last phase 12 hours, for example. Do this once a month when first planted.

My husband drilled 1/2" holes in 3/4" pvc when we planted one of the mesquites. He hammered about 6 or 8 of them circularly, under the (then) drip line. Into the ground 2' or so. Then he'd use a liter plastic jug, filled with water and inverted over the pvc. That baby has an excellent root system. This much work is not for everyone (he's an old retired engineer, what can I say??), but deep watering is the real key. Plus proper pruning of course.

Go for it, do your research and water appropriately and you can have a wonderful, lovely tree.

Thanks for educating me on the lion tailing situation. I know a bad tree trim when I see one- so now I'll know what to call that type of butchering. That's insane...

When I lived in San Diego I used to take pictures of butchered trees I'd see around town (and I'd see a lot.) It was very depressing to look at. Most of the trees were "topped."

I think a lot of these trees here fell down in the recent storms because people didn't move the drippers out further from the trunks into the drip line. My neighborhood is an absolute mess, full of big trees toppled down- real sad. My roof took major damage but not my trees.

tomato, that species of Euc. is a good choice for our area. I'd agree with you :)

By the way, do they plant Eucs. in Florida much? I haven't been there enough to know.

Rich, I lived in FL for a little over a year, but don't remember a lot of eucs. I'm sure they're there; they're everywhere.

This article reflects some of what has been mentioned here re: tree care with regard to monsoons. Every year, a bunch of mesquites fall over, primarily because they've been overwatered. My ex-neighbors (architect and builder) took the advice of one of their landscape 'experts' and planted mesquites in their irrigated yard. Two weeks ago, they finally had to take it down after it fell/split for the umpteenth time. I'm not the expert, but I could've told 'em; my irrigated yard is the reason I don't have a mesquite.

I haven't yet had a tree uproot; the DMPV is firmly rooted, just can't keep itself together.

I hope aztreelvr will comment on this article and perhaps offer some more advice.

Here is a link that might be useful: Recent article re: trees and monsoons

@richsd: Those are ridiculous examples posted, and not representative of common lion-tailing at all. In fact, Palo Verde trees sorta lion-tail all by themselves as they age. Bare trunks with a mass of heavy sticks and branches toward the end. Big storm comes along and SNAP! Smart move is to hack about half of each tail off the long horizontal branches each spring to encourage longevity. In my case, over a few years, I took out 6-8 large branches from the canter of an unusually luxuriant and thick tree, and failed to trim the ends. My tree looked completely natural, still does, except 1/3 of it is now missing. I wasn't trimming to help or hurt the tree, I was trying to improve my view.

Lysiloma and eucalyptus are two of my least favorite trees. I am currently saving to get the euc removed from my property. The original owner planted the tree to close to the house and it has destroyed every wire and pipe into my house. Very frustrating tree. The amount of litter that it throws on the ground is nothing short of shocking. All year round, seeds, blooms, leaves, branches falling.

The lysiloma is not a horrible looking tree, but its seedlings are very invasive. I find them all over the place and they have a knack for growing right in the middle of desert shrubs making it very difficult to remove.

I wanted lysiloma for two reasons: 1) It's a rather small tree and 2) it has a feathery canopy that filters light just right for growing plants underneath. I can't plant anything in my front yard that is likely to grow tall enough to reach remotely near a power line or SRP sends their butchers to slaughter the tree. Ask me how I know; I absolutely HATE those people. My problem with the two I have is that they look *nothing* like those I've seen (or the one in this link) and they are nowhere near making a canopy.

The other tree I like (seen in the link, too) is the Palo Blanco. Anyone have this tree? I'd plant a Mimosa, but there are just too many problems associated with that tree. :(

Here is a link that might be useful: Trees for Phoenix metro yards

Love Palo Blanco, have one and intend to get more. Perfect for providing filtered light, and almost mystically attractive. Of course, I'm a tried and true xeriscape guy, so it fits right into my plans. Amazingly resistant to our hurricane force winds also, despite the delicate appearance.

I lost my palo blanco to last winter's harsh temps. It was its first winter in the ground. waahhhh. r.i.p. palo blanco.

^ Aw, that's sad... Mine too (first winter), and I was worried. Silly thing is 12' tall and had a 1" trunk (has since doubled), and we were 25ðF, 24ðF, 18ðF, 22ðF, and 30ðF five nights running last January, but my guy made it somehow. I figure once the trunk gets to about 3" or so, it should be free and clear of the worst winter can throw our way.

Hi, all. I'm reviving this thread for a very sad reason: I'm losing my heart's delight, the ancient (75 y/o +/-) chaste tree in my front yard. I've done my best to save it, but it's a lost cause, a victim of age, borers and SRP's tree butchers. Now that I've come to terms with that sad fact, I've decided to re-do that part of the front yard. I've already taken out one of the so-called lisolomas and I'll be taking out the other one shortly.

I'm considering using much of the space as garden, including fruit trees. Still, I'd like some shade for the front patio. I've read through this entire thread, including links, and the palo blanco is lovely - and tempting. The house faces east and as the sun comes in from the west, a 'feathery' tree could provide some filtered shade for plants to the east of it.

Facts: It's a flood-irrigated lot (probably not so good for any palos) and the power lines run along the easement. I can't plant any tree anywhere in the front yard that has the potential to get close to the lines.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Alma, why don't plant another vitex tree? Shamel Ash is a beautiful tree and likes plenty of water.

I haven't been happy with my Australian willow acacia, Acacia salicina. Thin tree, very messy, sheds leaves all summer, sheds billions of white sticky blossoms in autumn into winter.

I've had unexpected success with a cascolate, Caesalpinia cacalaco. I planted a 24-inch tall multi-trunked one 9 years ago and it is about fifteen feet high now, which I believe is about its max. It is the tree cousin of red desert birds of paradise, but has no thorns, has yellow blossoms, and after a few years becomes a repeat bloomer, several times per year. I live in Tucson, where we have more frost, and only one year's really hard and sustained freeze (daytime stayed below 32) made the leaves die. It didn't shed those leaves, so I spent a few minutes batting it with a broom, and discovered the bare form is very handsome. It grew new leaves in the spring. Most winters, it stays green all year round. It is Mexican, well suited to Arizona. I've noticed a number of them being planted along the interstate in Phoenix lately. Oh, and I like the sound of hearing its pods snap open at night and the tiny seeds bouncing on the brick patio, yet it is not a messy tree. Four years ago I planted a six-foot cascolate beside my wash, where it is chugging along less eagerly, but is getting there. Both have modest irrigation.

Sorry to hear about your vitex tree, Alma, that's sad, very sad. Like Mary, I was wondering why you don't just plant another one? Let us know what you select and how it works out. Good luck!

Fun Tree Update, tfswest, I really enjoyed your summary! The most common, wild types of Cascalote do have lots of thorns, which I don't mind, but there is a thornless variety called 'Smoothie' and it sounds like that's yours. How fun! I don't have one in this garden, but like you mentioned, it's fun to hear those seed pods pop open and hear the seed shoot (and bounce) around, hah. Love it. I was enjoying that at a friend's garden last week and at Berridge Nursery in E. Central Phoenix last weekend. I think they're really great trees too and glad you highlighted them. Now you're giving me a craving to plant one, hah!

Happy gardening all!

Grant (adding a quick pic of a nice cascalote that I grabbed from the internet)

Hi Grant - Yes, the bouncing of the seeds off the paving is one of the tiny delights of desert living. And hearing them means no one is making noise.

I'm getting acquainted with another tree, new to me. Maybe you already know it. It is the mastic tree, pistacia lentiscus. Small very deep green glossy leaves, can be multi-trunked or single, shrubby or pruned up to tree form. Native to the hottest southern parts of the north shore of the Mediterranean (Sicily, southern Italy, Greece), it takes savage heat and sun, takes frost, and flourishes in gritty alkaline soil on low water. it is slow growing. I got a 3-trunked six-foot-tall sappling last fall, planted on my patio it in an immense pot (about 4x4 feet, maybe bigger) to gain instant height. It is flourishing. Very clean, doesn't shed.

Planted in the ground, it reaches about 15x15 feet, or 20x20. You can read a bit about it at:

https://ag.arizona.edu/pima/gardening/aridplants/Pistacia_lentiscus.html

It sounds like we all need a place as big as the Arboretum to indulge our tastes... and a budget to go with it!

Well since this is a revived thread and I'd hate for anyone not to know how to prune a mesquite or palo verde or other multi-trunked native desert tree:
http://www.desertharvesters.org/native-tree-information/a-guide-to-pruning-native-sonoran-desert-multi-trunk-trees/

Also my favorite web page for bad pruning examples:
http://sonorantreesvc.com/improper-tree-pruning/