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kaboehm

HD bulb butchery photos

OK...I went undercover today and snapped photos. These crime scene photos are not for the weak of heart! :-(

Here's the display...very pretty, eh?

{{gwi:434400}}

Here's the front panel:

{{gwi:439636}}

And...here's the back. You should be able to read it all! ....read the lable carefully. Enjoy your bulbs through for weeks! This process of butchering bulbs so they fit in a hurricane lamp vase (apparently with no roots) is Patent Pending!!

{{gwi:439637}}

Here's two different bulbs....waaaa....they have had their basal plates sliced off:

{{gwi:450975}}

{{gwi:439638}}

I did find one that was trying to grow roots....think he'll make it??

{{gwi:450977}}

WRITE THEM!!! and complain!

Kristi (where photos are worth 1000 words)

Comments (52)

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Patann,
    I clicked on your message, and it said that GardenWeb couldn't find your message. Hmmmm. I've never gotten that message before. Can you copy and paste it into Word or something similar and then copy and paste from there??

    Hope you can find something that works. I'd be interested to see how they try to defend this practice!
    K

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    After having taken a closer look at the bottoms of those bulbs, via your photos, it appears that they may have a very, very thin layer of basal plate left. Extremely thin, but maybe just enough to regrow roots. Maybe.

    I still think the butchering is done in the interest of greed. It's nothing more than a disposable product created for a capitalistic market of consumers... and America does consume!

    I wonder what other countries this is being marketed to? I'm guessing... not many.

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  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I looked up the patent and found the text....bwaaa haa haa (evil laugh): The patent holders (the Paternostres) are very clever in their wording...or their patent lawyers are. Note that that they do talk about roots...and the focus of this "invention" is that growing bulbs is soooo much work!
    :-)
    K

    Description
    TECHNICAL FIELD

    The subject invention relates generally to a simple, economical system and method for displaying and observing the growth of flower bulbs in an indoor environment. More particularly, this invention provides the basic items required to accomplishthe aforementioned along with a method for marketing such a system.

    BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

    Displaying the transformation of flower bulbs into flowers in an indoor setting is a hobby and pleasure pursued by many people and businesses. Usually, one or more flower bulbs are sold to customers separately. Then, these customers must maketheir own arrangements to provide a nurturing growing environment for the bulbs by providing a dark and cool location in which to store the bulbs as well as soil and moisture to encourage the bulbs to begin sprouting and to set roots. Once this hasoccurred, the bulbs are typically transferred either to a planter or vase which has been suitably prepared with soil and nutrients to await the eventual appearance of flowers. These steps all require a considerable investment of time, money and space bythe customer making the process unnecessarily inconvenient for the customer.

    Variations on the described process have involved hydroponics arrangements, but such bulb treatments involve frequent adjustments of water levels and cultivation attention throughout. Some marketers have attempted to simplify the process bymarketing plant bulbs in a prepared apparatus such as a bag devised for planting the bulb at a proper depth in soil and identifying the bulb type and color. This process also requires multiple steps be undertaken by the customer. An alternativeplanting approach requires that flower bulbs be placed in a series of pockets made from mineral wool felt which is open on one side. Here, again, the customer must perform multiple steps and purchase additional items to obtain flowers. It is also knownto place multiple bulbs or seeds in wet soil in a growth tray stored in a cool environment and, once roots and shoots have appeared, to transfer the tray to soil to allow flowers to grow. Suggestions have even been made to place flower bulbs in aplanting module which, once placed in soil and exposed to water, dissolves, permitting the bulb to sprout. Others have attempted to make the flower growing process easier by disclosing multi-function devices which can be used as both a flower vase andplanting pot. The problem with the aforementioned approaches to flower and bulb cultivation is that either they require excessive work by the purchaser, do not permit observation of the flower growing process or mandate the use of soil and nutrientpreparations by the customer to their great inconvenience. What is needed is a simple, inexpensive, convenient one-source system for growing and displaying flower bulbs which minimizes the purchaser's involvement and expenditure of time in thepreparation and care of the flowers that ultimately emerge from the bulbs while maximizing the purchaser's enjoyment of the process.

    SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

    The present invention relates to a system and method for displaying and marketing flower bulbs. The system includes a transparent, hollow display container with a top and a bottom having a uniform lateral cross sectional shape and uniformdimensions in a plane parallel to its base extending from its top to a predetermined distance from its bottom. A support device with a top surface and a bottom surface having a uniform lateral cross sectional shape duplicating that of said displaycontainer and uniform lateral cross sectional dimensions less than that of said display container bearing flower bulbs which have roots and shoots is designed for placement within the hollow display container. Flower bulbs are pressed base down inbetween spikes interspersed across one side of the support device so that the base of each bulb remains undamaged and each bulb is retained in place. When the desired number of bulbs has been placed onto the support device or the support device is full,the support device is placed in a rooting container, and a nourishing liquid such as water is added to the rooting container up to a level bringing the bottom of each bulb into contact with the liquid. The rooting container is then deposited into anappropriate environment, usually dark and cool, which encourages the growth of roots and sprouts in each bulb for a time period which varies with each bulb variety. Once such roots and sprouts have developed, the support device is transferred away fromthe rooting container and inserted down into the interior of the similarly shaped transparent, hollow display container until it encounters a shelf formed by an indentation running around the entire periphery of the wall of the display container. Thesupport device is sized so that its periphery extends beyond the edge of the display container shelf and it will be supported by that shelf at a distance of at least one inch above the interior base of the display container. A quantity of nourishingliquid such as water is then added to the display container and runs through the perforations in the support device into the bottom of the display container up to a height approximately equivalent to the bottom of the bulbs on the support device andsufficient to completely bathe the roots extending downwardly from those bulbs. The display container is then wrapped and shipped to a purchaser or to a retailer for sale.

    It is a primary object of this invention to provide a system and method enabling indoor cultivation of flower bulbs.

    An additional object of this invention is to provide a simple, convenient system for consumers to participate in and enjoy watching the evolution of flower bulbs into flowers.

    Another object of this invention is to provide a flower growing system which is immediately marketable upon receipt by vendors.

  • aseedisapromise
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I notice how on the package they mention "You have purchased a finished product". I think the emphasis is on the "finished".

  • Pat z6 MI
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Okay, lets try this in Word. The first grower reply (below) was directly through Email. The second was automated from the growerÂs website. I too think enough of MY basal plate was left (albeit moldy) for the nubbins I now see growing. I will not take mine back as long as the nubbins keep on growing.

    Me: "In question No. 2, what "sand layer" are you referring to? The bulb/vase/river pebbles that I purchased at Home Depot had the basal plant cut off, no roots, and a green fungus or mold where the basal plate was removed. I didn't discover this until I got it home. I want to return the bulb to HD, but would you tell me why the basal plate was cut off? Pat Moore

    "Pat
    The cutting of the root plate of the bulb is part of our special preparation we give the bulbs. This will make them grow and flower better.
    The fungus is not harmful.
    Kind regards, Customer Service"

    and the second set from the autom website replies:

    "Dear Pat Moore,
    Below you will find more information about the topics you expressed interest in:
    Question: The [ Tulip] bulbs show some penicillin spots (moldy spots). What should I do?
    Answer: There is no problem with the bulbs. Penicillin forms on small wounds like a scab. It is a natural reaction if the bulbs have been damaged during the planting or digging period. If it really annoys you to have penicillin, you can always rinse the bulb with some water and or wipe the penicillin off with a small brush.
    Question: I just bought your Amaryllis on a vase. Please tell me more?
    Answer: The Amaryllis: Of all bulbs, amaryllis is the easiest to bring to bloom. This can be accomplished indoor over an extended period of time. The amaryllis originated in South America\'s tropical regions and has the botanical name Hippeastrum. The large flowers and ease with which they can be brought to bloom make amaryllis popular and in demand worldwide.
    Water/Dry: The base of the bulb should be kept humid. Keep the sand layer wet by adding just enough to saturate the sand with water. Remember, if you donÂt want to start growing the bulb immediately after receiving them; store them at a cool temperature between 40-50 degrees F
    Amaryllises can also grow dry without water. However the flowers will grow larger with water.
    After-Flowering: After the amaryllis has stopped flowering, it can be made to flower again. Cut the old flowers from the stem after flowering, and when the stem starts to sag, cut it back to the top of the bulb. Continue to keep water as normal all summer, or for at least 5-6 months, allowing the leaves to fully develop and grow. When the leaves begin to yellow, which normally occurs in the early fall, cut the leaves back to about 2 inches from the top of the bulb and remove the bulb from the soil.

    Bulb Storage: Clean the bulb and place it in a cool (40-50 deg. F), dark place such as the crisper of your refrigerator for a minimum of 6 weeks. Caution: Do not store amaryllis bulbs in a refrigerator that contains apples, this will sterilize the bulbs. Store the bulbs for a minimum of 6 weeks. Plant Again. After 6 weeks you may remove bulbs whenever you would like to plant them. Plant bulbs 8 weeks before you would like them to bloom.
    Thank you for your interest in our "Long Life Flowers".
    Bloomaker Customer Service"

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    So...they are implying that without a basal plate (or a minimum plate) the bulbs will thrive!
    YIKES....is this true?
    K

  • wesley_butterflies
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    At 14.99 each they can think/imply what ever they want
    The line on back label says it all
    YOU HAVE PURCHASED A FINISHED PRODUCT The Q and A responces are a meer legal protection formality to a unknowing consumer (They never gurantee how many times it will flower or how long the bulb will last ect ect ect.)

    Kind of like spilling Hot Coffee on yourself at Mc Donalds
    and then they CAUTION EVERYONE the coffee is HOT
    Can someone sue them for not buying it ? After all they did indicate " YOU HAVE PURCHASED" As seen on the label.

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I just think it's sad that they resort to this sort of "basal plate pruning" so that the bulb will sit flat in the container and bloom its brains out this season in an attempt to survive. Bet you that 95% of the consumers buy them and toss them (using the hurricane lamp vase for another purpose). Yup...I saw the "enjoy them for weeks" and the "you have purchased a finished product". Really indicative of the disposable society.

    I may go talk to the manager of HD and see if I can take these off his hands when they are spent...just to see if I can save some lives! They can have the glass, I just want the bulbs!

    Kristi

  • Noni Morrison
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    THis is all so SAD! IT reminds me of people having babies because they are cute then throwing them away when they become teenagers! Or creating Eunochs to save trouble from adult men in a harem. IT is totally disrespectful of life. Isn't that spark of life what makes us garden?

    It is nothing more but a destructive form of cut flower. But when I cut amaryllis for flowers, I nuture the bulb and help it come back to growing and reproducing and fulfilling its destiny.

    Lets go form a human barrier to purchasing these....We need to make a display of what healthy bulbs look like...show them some of the giant healthy bulbs we get from our good bulb dealers, and their glorious flowers, and tell them how many years goes into this!

    I am just utterly disgusted. IT is MURDER! And you can't even eat them!

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I am going to take the book I made of my photos (none of them are against the black background) to show the manager that bulbs are more than just a passing fancy. Then maybe they will take me seriously about taking them off their hands. I wish I could offer then $4 to cover their costs of the bulb and just take them all...wouldn't that look spectacular to have beds of these. I could dust the bottoms of each with rooting hormone and give them a great home in the green house over the winter.

    Lizalilly...I just replied to aseedisapromise, because s/he must think I am horrible ("Maybe kboehm would get the hippie police to stop the sale of these bulbs in SD!")...but I ended my message before I read your post and said that I am just speaking for those who can not speak for themselves...bulbs included. Maybe I could get the manager at HD to post a flyer about how to get the most from these bulbs (not following the growers instructions and tossing the vase/pebbles) for employees who might get them if they don't sell...just to give them a chance. If they don't sell...I don't want them to end up in the trash can.....it IS sad...I'm glad someone else (along with Patann and Jodi) seem to be as upset as I am.

    K

  • iluvneps
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Maybe you could sneak in and dust the bottoms with some root stuff and leave them. The HD I called had the boxed sets for $6 each and that was it. I'll call around again to inquire though. Does it say how big they are? Also the people involved probably know nothing and of course amaryllis are pretty much indestructible. Maybe I'll ask my parents to rescue like 10 of them for Christmas. . .hmmmmm.

  • Pat z6 MI
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Here's something even sadder, Kristi. A good friend of ours has worked at a HD in another city for many years in the nursery dept and he says there is no way any retailer like HD will GIVE leftovers to any employee or any customer, regardless of what it is. They will dump anything before they will give it away. Company policy, no exceptions, it's either a rule or a law. That policy always made me sick. They may reduce the price to almost suit you, but they cannot give them to you. Last fall our friend asked his boss if he could have some leftover mums to take down the street to a senior apartment complex and he was told no, they had to be destroyed. I almost fainted. Then I go back and buy this hippe bulb because it was so huge! Duh . . . . .

  • haitidoc
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'll bet those bulbs will grow just fine and will grow normal roots. They "cleaned" them up and trimmed the basal plate so they would look nice and clean. I shudder when I see how some of you cut of the leaves of the amys in the fall before dormancy. To me that is as bad as trimming the basal plate. Not murder but drastic surgery, but really, I don't think either practice does any real harm. They are leaving some of the plate to grow roots. I think this is an opportunity for us to learn something. You can cut off a good bit of the basal plate and still have a good healthy and very clean bulb if you let it dry well before planting.

    Don't faint yet. These babies may grow okay. Maybe we are jumping to the wrong conclusions. People have a tendency to do that. I have often seen that when we have discussed diseases and soils. Let's not be so sure we are always right.

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Some may very well grow roots and survive just fine... but that's not the point.

    The point is our capitalistic, consumer driven, disposable society, and the poor lessons we're teaching... life isn't all about using and throwing away, or about greed and profit. Life, especially this side of it, the gardening, is about growth and beauty, and learning to relax and have patience. Learning to nurture, and enjoy nature.

    It's the disposable, profit driven aspect that angers and saddens me. This is not a good lesson for our youth... the next generation of keepers of our planet.

    We all know there are many ways to grow hippeastrum bulbs... and we each have to choose what works best for us, in our own environments. But we also need to share all these methods so those without the knowledge can choose.

    If someone doesn't know what options are available, they might have nothing more than a disappointing experience with these wonderful bulbs.

  • rebecca47
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    haitidoc

    Thank you for adding a different take to this discussion.

  • txgrnhs
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    i went to the lowes near my home and found that all of the boxed amaryllis kits, 'guaranteed to bloom' the sign said, contained bulbs that had all ready sent out a bud spike, but the bud was dry and lifeless. i don't know if they had been exposed to freezing temps that killed the bloom, but none of the boxes i looked at contained anything that would bloom this year.

    unless they have changed their policy, any plant that dies can be refunded for a year with a receipt, so it seems that even the HD is being cheated by offering up something that will likely die.

  • rebecca47
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    For goodness sake ladies and gents open your minds to the possibilities that this technique is no more harmful than other techniques used to supply the consumer with seasonal blooming plants. Even those boxed bulbs are subjected to unnatural conditions to get them to bloom in a set amount of time and out of their natural season (late winter.

    Crop loss due to untested cultural practices are not covered my insurance so this company stands to loose a heck of a lot of money if their technique didn't work. I have carefully cut off the basal plant or part of it to get bulbs to root that had lost all of their roots for one reason or another. Dusting with a fungicide and a rooting hormone and allowing the cut to callus over before planting is all that one needs. Some of us have used this technique on a small scale for some time now to rejuvenate old bulbs. It works.

    The problem, as I see it, is in over producing for the market and then having the wholesalers and retailers buying/stocking more than the market will bare. Then add in all the impatient folks who demand instant gratification. Now couple that with those who simply throw things away when they are finished with them, be they Hippies, Easter Lilies or countless puppies and kittens that are purchased every year and when the "cuteness" wears off they become just something else to set out with the trash.

    Firms like Bloomaker are only doing what the public has said it wants. We a plantaholics just are not accustomed to seeing this technique used and offered to the consumer at large.
    Also the reason most retailers will not give away or even sell at a reduced rate plants/bulbs/seeds that do not sell is that their inventory system records all sales as just that, a sell and the next time an item is ordered instead of getting less of an item, they get more because the system assumes the item sold and will increase in the next session. (This is what happens when big box store allow computerized programs order for them). The only way they can get "the system" to order less is to show a loss for any item, plants included.

    While I am on my podium let me also take on the Chinese Propagation techniques, Have you gone through John's album and seen all the bulbs and the steps along with the progress made to increase a particular cultivar so it is available in high enough numbers to be able to offer it to us, the collector? This works. It is not "murder". Does cutting back my tropical hibiscus make me a murderer or does removing the offsets from a "Spider Plant" make me a murderer? I plant these to grow more and I do the same with many other plants I grow. You can't grow a new hippie from a leaf cutting, but you can get a bulb to produce many, many more new bulbs and they will be exactly like the donor bulb. Other techniques, like Tissue Culture can disrupt the genetics and cause some variation and enough to the point that what comes from itis something nothing like the donor plant.

    Stepping down off my podium and ducking behind it . Hope I get to come back, but I just could not let this discussion continue unchecked.

    Rebecca

  • Pat z6 MI
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Points well taken, Rebecca. This Forum is the best.

  • Dar Sunset Zone 18
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Take it this way, $14.99 for the entire kit, I think we all here can agree that this makes for a better and more interesting display than a dozen of roses which can cost more or just as much. It doesn't bother me they cut of the basal plate, I know most of them should be able to recover from such butchering.

    But Jodi has a good point, the disposable part does bother me to a degree. Those bulbs must have taken years to grow to such a size. So much water and fertilizer was used to grow them just to be bought and thrown away after a couple of months in someone's house. That is indeed wasteful and bad for the environment. Those bulb can present much more if the consumers were to care for them longer than what they were sold to do.

    Other side, if everyone continued growing their amaryllis bulbs like we do, then all this waste of water fertilizer, and pesticide would just pass on to the consumer. Only difference is space, we wouldn't grow it on farm land which can be used to grow food crop instead.

    Then if we weren't this wasteful, the companies wouldn't have much to capitalize on and then our amaryllis would be harder to find to buy and more expensive and less employment!

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    We live in sad times, I'm afraid. Everything is disposable, one-use-only... profit and greed drive the markets... logic and common sense are at an all time low... the majority of Americans are lemmings, blindly believing and following without educating themselves... and I could go on, but it's too depressing.

    And this new so-called bulb company is right up there in line to make a profit through the duping of society. I, for one, will never buy a product from this company. And I don't blame Kristi or Lizalily one bit for feeling how they do... I feel the same way.

    It's pathetic, is what it is!

    And what's more pathetic is that a lot of people treat their pets the same way... as disposable items they can toss out when they get tired of them, or they find out it's actually a little work to take care of them! Just check out your local rescue or shelter if you don't believe me.

    No one thinks for themselves anymore... they let the mega corporations and conglomerates do it for them. They buy into everything the media tells them... and don't get me started on organized religions, making a profit from the desperation of human beings.

    The world is swirling down the commode at an ever quickening pace... I'm only glad I won't be around to see it all in another 30 years, or so... I can't imagine what it might be like at that point, but I shudder to think.

    Bah humbug... bah commercialism... bah greed and dishonesty. It's all enough to make me lose faith in a large portion of my fellow man.

  • allstarsgymnast7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hello! I have somewhat moved back into my "real home" to be back on break from college. So now I can pop right back into the discussions :)

    It was interesting seeing the patent info. I was really intrigued by several things.
    ... The whole thing seems like a marketing pitch. (Don't tell my boyfriend... he's a marketing major... hehe) They even say it in the last part of the "additional reasons for this product section" - to be "easily marketable".

    ... Seriously though, the reasoning behind the product is to make it cheaper for the consumer (probably defined as people who like pretty flowers displayed in big ol' vases and black rocks). That's probably being silly, but they did leave out one group: us! The educated amaryllis grower. Unless they craftily knew we would feel deep despair for the poor plants, they forgot that some people would know there's a lot more money riding on the plants than just $14.95 + tax + the 1 and 1/4 cup of water every week. Consumers will probably do one of two things after purchase. 1 - throw it out. 2 - want to learn more and visit here! :) What will they find out? 1-Our outrage :). 2- what really needs to go on with the care and keeping of these pretty plants. From there, they will say 1- not worth it, 2- I wish I could have done it right the first time. Now what am I gonna do with this huge ol' vase?! Some silly points from a silly person in a silly mood... I know.

    ...The "spikey thing" used to hold up the bulb as a "safety during shipping". I have a picture of the "spikey thing" and my bulb has BRUISES from said "spikey thing". I wonder where they got the idea that it was safe?? Definitely would hold the bulb in place though, mainly because the bulb might end up "shish-kabob-ed"!!

    Doesn't look so bad from up top...
    {{gwi:450979}}

    Now it looks scary!:O
    {{gwi:450981}}

    Just thought I might add a few photos to the collection Kristi. Hope you don't mind!

    Rebecca made good points too. We do sometimes employ these radical strategies on our own bulbs.

    Jodi, I didn't think about all the animals at the shelter. That's a good way of putting it! Shelters break my heart too. Bad experiences with them. We had a litter of kittens and took 3 of the 5 to the shelter. Said if they couldn't put them in homes, we would take them back and find homes. Well, two weeks later I called and they had placed 1 and put the other 2 to sleep! :'( I just slammed the phone down. But I get off topic...

    Hmm... It's like ethics being applied to plants. "Is it morally acceptable to apply the principle of basal plate cutting to your own plants? How about for a commercial grower who does it for profit? Discuss." Things to ponder!

    Kristi, maybe this could be a part of a plot for your amaryllis story! A fair, beautiful she-hippi who was raised from seed in a water and fertilizer abundant home meets a rugged, torn he-hippi who was separated from all greenhouse friends and "shish-kabob-ed" on a "spikey thingy". Just a goofy thought from a tired me.

    Sorry for being slightly silly about a serious subject, but I take that lighthearted role every now and then. Tied in with the eternally optimistic mood I'm in now, and this is what results. I suppose all we can do is express concern over what's going on. I know purchasing bulbs from them is probably NOT the best way to express concern, but I had to save one! It had most of its plate and is actually doing quite well now, and is sending up two scapes. The roots are growing a lot, too. There was 1 or 2 growing when I bought it, now there's between 6 and 8.

    I think the initial shock of basal plate cutting caught us off guard. Over the next few months, those who bought one such hippi (I'm guilty) can update us on how everything goes. Basal plates are interesting to me. They're all different on every single hippi I own (which has grown again).

    I'm stopping. Goodness, how I write on sometimes!
    Kate
    The Eternally Optimistic (at the moment) :)

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    It's not the basal plate slicing that I take issue with... done correctly, this can rejuvenate an old bulb with a thick basal plate.

    It's the marketing ploy to get people to spend money on a disposable item that bothers me. The patent paperwork reads like they think all people are lazy and stupid... like it's just sooo much work to grow a bulb from year to year, that the public couldn't possibly want to do THAT!

    Inserting a flower frog into the bulb to hold it stable for shipping causes bruising... that much is common sense. But bruises and wounds are weak spots, and great areas for fungi to grow and harm the bulb.

    I suppose it shouldn't bother me so much... but in a world where we're trying to be "green", where we're trying to recycle and reuse, trying to save Mother Earth, it makes no sense to bring yet another disposable product to the market.

    Anyone who considers themselves to be "living green" should take issue with this product... it's not ecologically sound, and just more fodder for landfills.


  • npublici
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Concerning the propagation of Hippeastrum bulbs. There are many variations of the cuttage of the bulbs,to stimulate the growth of bulblets.None of these are new. Some practices work better for some ,in some areas,than others,and have been practiced in those areas,because of that. It is a basic thing;wound the bulb;it goes into survival mode and tries to reproduce itself.The Chinese were cutting bulbs, when our ancestors were wearing skins and spearing fish with sharpened sticks.
    I never have trimmed the basal plates of my Hippeastrum so severely as indicated in the pictures I have been seeing.
    I have often wondered about, but haven't tried yet,to try to get bulblets from the discarded plate pieces. I have noticed though, that I get bulblets more readily from chips which include a little of the leaf bases,where they start to turn green. The practice of cutting off the basal plate,except for a very minor amount,then plunking it down into water,without allowing it to dry and callus over,and without the inclusion of fungicide,is an obvious, strictly commercial endevor. Almost every one will flower and leaf,as promised,for a one time presentation.Many will rot,but will still leaf and flower,before they die. It is a repugnant practice to me,but it is not immoral as long as the seller is up front about it. Most people throw them away after their peak,and don't even consider growing them on.
    In so far as plant tissue culture is concerned; It is true that very minor mutations can occur in the first generation of shooting from callus,induced by growth hormones,from explants(small pieces of bulb,usually six to eight mm).
    The problem comes in, when successive generations are produced by small cuttings from that callus. and from the next generation of callus,and so on. The more the callus is regenerated,rather than getting new explants from the original bulbs,the more likley the chance of mutations.Some mutations are wonderful. All of Gods creation has mutated,is mutating and will always mutate. This is due to background radiation,cold damage,heat damage,physical damage,and other things,in other words-environment.The greater the population of a living thing,the greater chance it has of breeding out(therefore rejecting) characteristics which do not allow it to do best in its environment,and the greater chance it has of adopting a new,desirable characteristic. One of the best Illustrations of this is the wide variety found in the Hippeastrum Aulicum, Papilio and Puniceum.
    One of the best sources for continual, up to date information is http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/index.htm
    Some universities have a very large amount of information,but although your taxes support their existence,much of the published information will not be available to the average person,except through searches of partial information or ordering papers,at great cost.Much of the information which is easily available from universities is outdated. Often the "teasers"touting books contains the best of the book and the rest of the book is filler. Carol Stiff recommends several books and she can be totaly trusted. She is a professor and gets little from the organization she has started,except the satisfaction of bringing technolgy to private individuals,which was previously guarded information.
    There is little to argue about and much to learn. I think we all agree, that we hate to see a good bulb ruined,or thrown away.
    Del

  • Pat z6 MI
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    In the spirit of being more positive in an increasingly negative world, the grower instructions do not say anything about putting the bulb in water, nor do I assume, in all fairness to a company that has not spoken up about this matter yet, they did that after they cut the basal plate. They said to place (however many) ounces in the glass vase with the river rocks and put the bulb on top. My uneducated guess is that the water/moisture would lure UNSEEN or seen roots to grow toward the water. You can see by the large amount of river rocks they supplied in each vase that they never intended for the water to come anywhere close to the bulb.
    We have to give each other the benefit of the doubt in this crazy world or we are in constant angst. But, I repeat, if my HUGE bulb grows no roots, it goes back to HD for a refund.

  • purpleclover
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Jodi,

    Regarding your post on the 16th, I'm right there with you. Play with the puppies and enjoy your flowers.

    That is the reason I enjoy gardening and work with dogs; more time with plants and pups as a tonic against the outside world.

    One thing to help you not lose all faith in men is that I don't think it is even a majority of individuals. More like a crowd mentality that has been overly influenced by Wall Street and accounting practices.

    We've been spoonfed that whatever is best for a corporate executive or a stockholder is what is best for everyone. And that only works if everyone is an executive or a stockholder.

    I keep thinking that eventually the guy that makes shoes will realize that his sales are affected by the guy that makes cars. Both of them need the other's employees to have a job and be able to buy each other's products. Sorry, I digress.

    Play with the puppies and the plants. ...

    Sorry, I was just interrupted with the question, "Why do flowers make you happy? Why not just get a picture of a flower and keep that all the time?"
    (Neon has five buds about to open.)

    So clearly, everyone can't be saved. ;-D

    Fortunately, I have flowers to content myself with. And dogs. A bassett is waiting for his play time right now. I've got to go.

    G

  • rebecca47
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Del,

    Wonderful, educational read! Thank you for posting!

    Rebecca

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thanks, purpleclover... the world we live in today is so disposable that even marriage makes the list. Check divorce rates to see what I mean. We "throw away" people we profess to love almost as easily as we discard everything else! It's just very disheartening.

    In a world overloaded with stress, it's nice to be a part of the slow pace of watching Mother Nature do her thing... and part of that is the joy I get from watching my bulbs grow and flower, and caring for them so they do. I'm not so impatient that I need the immediate gratification of an overdone flower. It's nice sometimes just to see green leaves appear and grow.

    And with that thought in mind, I'm preferring not to give the company in question the benefit of the doubt. Their patent papers told me all I need to know. Greed for a quick buck outweighs the idea that they might be unnecessarily adding to the country's landfills and disposable consumerism. Thanks, but I'll pass.

  • radagast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Looks like a case of greed, Greed, GREED!!

    Liars and thieves... that's all they are... There is something sick about basically killing plants to make a quick buck. Not that these clowns are the first (doomed bonsai in glued on gravel, cactus in soggy soil with plastic flowers glued on, etc.)

    All we can do is inform everyone of this scam and not spend a dime on their "finished" products!

  • ryan820
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I may be playing devils advocate but though I dislike the way they "mistreat" these bulbs, they are after all a business. Loads of plants are treated this way.

    I dunno... I'm likely the only one but this is not greed I see-- it is a business trying to make money. Its one of those deals where if you do not like the product do not buy it-- thats your right as a consumer to cast your vote for that business.

    I personally would never buy this product because of the issues I personally have with it. But to me, its akin to sellng cut flowers, which I think we can all agree, its perfectly acceptable.

    Please don't flame me for this post. I guess I'm just trying to show a different side to the story.

    Ryan

  • dondeldux Z 6b South Shore Massachusetts
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    If any wants to rescue a bulb, Lowes boxed bulbs are 50% off and the ones in the little heavy ornamental pots at 10$ are also half price. The ones in the little heavy ormanental pots were in much better condition than the ones in the boxes (in this Lowes anyway)so I did a little switcheroo and rescued 2 of them..... one that needed rescuing...... and one that might have lasted a little longer. Only spent 5$ plus tax I may go to Hell for the Switcheroo, but I felt good because I was on a rescue mission. Believe it or not when I got them home I took a closer look and though both were moderate sized bulbs, one has a very thick basal plate! So I thought I'd give it a try and I cut half of it off and am letting it dry for a few days and will powder it and see what happens.

  • tugbrethil
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Whew! What a relief!

    When I read that the basal plates were cut off, I immediately thought of the way some cooks cut off the basal plates of onions--whack! 1/6th of the bulb gone! I'm glad to see that it wasn't nearly as bad as that, though they still shaved them a good deal closer than I would have. In the pictures there was still obviously enough plate left to grow new roots. But, yes, fungus would be a severe danger. Thirty years ago, they would simply have dipped the bulb in some mercury-based fungicide, and sent them blithely off to market. Hopefully there are laws in place to prevent that solution, now, but that would still raise the specter of disease.

    I haven't had to rejuvenate any of mine yet, though there are a few that I need to take hard look at this spring. Usually, though, when planting a new bulb, I have learned to cut the old, dried roots off close to the basal plate, since they seem to invite rot, and interfere with the growth of new roots.

    The digest of what I read is that cutting the basal plate is somewhat risky, but isn't necessarily a disaster, and it may even be beneficial in some circumstances. If I decide to cut my "laggards", should I leave about 1/8th inch of plate on the bulb?

    Thanks for the needed education!
    Kevin : ])

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Cut flowers are one thing... the plants will grow new ones... and I know that this isn't the first plant product to be abused in the name of business... but to me, it's akin to the last straw in a never-ending push toward a totally disposable world of instant gratification.

    I do grasp the notion that everyone needs to make a buck to survive... but this treatment of bulbs just rubs me the wrong way. Whereas the company could have included instructions for saving the bulb and growing it for future enjoyment, they chose to promote it strictly as a short-lived throwaway. That's what really gets me.

  • lora_in
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Oh my.

    I'll jump into the fray with the understanding that I abhor the disposable society mentality .It has gone way to far, from plastic water bottles, small animals to even houses.

    That said, I have worked in the florist and greenhouse industry. I see these glass vase/bulb combos as the equivalent of the florist azaleas,poinsettias,potted gerbea daisies,just add ice orchids or a potted hydrangea. They are frequently given as token gifts, not ment to last. They are used in houses as a form of still life, not a dynamic,growing thing.When it no longer fits in the still life, it is discarded and replaced with some other object.
    It neatly gets around the problem of water changing, with roots entangled in pebbles,stinky water and cleaning the glass.That horrid looking spike plate will hold the bulb firmly upright while blooming. All in all, it creates a good presentation.

    Beyond that, there are, oddly enough, a great many people that are "disturbed" by visible roots. They intensely dislike aerial roots on orchids and visible roots in hyacinth glasses,ect. I have no clue as to the psychology behind the mindset.

    I think, also, that people that actually want to grow the bulb would be more likely to purchase one of the kits with the coir puck and drainless pot.Those I find more disturbing as they give instructions for a living plant that will surely rot in the pot provided.

    As for the basal plate trimming, it seems to not been done with a great deal of care or consistency. I do think that most of those bulbs would do just fine if planted and cared for properly ie not spiked down on those wicked flower frogs. Unfortunately, if you purchase them to rescue the bulb, it will be recorded in the store computer system as a sale & it becomes more probable that more things of this ilk will be brought in next season. Lora

  • beachplant
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Our HD never got any and I haven't ventured off the island in over a week. I'm gonna go to Lowe's though, 50% off! Yeah!!

    I have 3 ex-husbands. Sometimes you gotta dispose of them.

    I like the part where you sterilize the bulb by putting it with an apple. That's the best story I've heard all day!
    Tally HO!!

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lora, I think the mentality you're talking about is the same unfortunate mentality that's gotten a good hold over a large part of society... they don't like how roots or aerial roots look, they don't know where their food sources come from or how they're produced, they're slaves to the modern conveniences of life, and would most likely have a difficult time surviving if a horrible disaster were to befall our nation.

    Reality is just as ugly and abstract and uncontrollable as it is beautiful and ordered... but for some unknown reason, some folks can't deal with the ugly side of reality. They prefer it be hidden from them, and they want a sterile world bereft of anything that's not politically correct.

    I hate to say it, but I'm glad to have lived in the time frame I have, in the places I have, and I'm very happy to be accepting of the ugly side of life... it makes me a survivor.

    The more I deal with the public, the less I want to. So many people have enclosed themselves in sanitary bubbles, where logic and common sense do not fit. America has truly been "dumbed down", as they say.

  • ryan820
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    If you think the general public has been dumbed down you should catch an episode of Jersey Shore. Its like watching a horrific accident... absolutely awful and yet you cannot turn away! LOL

    Ryan (who is spending the weekend smartening up!)

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I've never even heard of that one, Ryan, if that tells you anything about my tv watching habits! I watch very little tv during daylight hours... but at 9pm, Cartoon Network is put on... and left on until I get up in the morning.

    You know it's bad when cartoons are considered more worth watching! I also like a good action movie, some documentaries, and I never miss a James Bond flick!

    When Larry gets the remote, we watch MMA... whether it's UFC, StrikeForce, WEC or one of the other Mixed Martial Arts, full contact venues. I enjoy it, myself! The female competitors are fierce! If I were 30 years younger, I'd be in training!

    Just the commercials shown these days give a clue as to the mentality of consumer America... it's pitiful. Most are condescending, patronizing, or just plain stupid. We're constantly bombarded by advertisements... television, magazines, the internet, even at the theater prior to the movie credits... it's a little much!

    Let me give you an example of today's common sense... a friend of ours bought a new set of phones for her home. They consist of a base with a handset, and three other cordless phones and charger bases. She asked Larry if he would charge them up and get them ready for her to plug in. No problem. After they were charged and ready to go in, we gave them back to her.

    She brought them back, all upset because she couldn't get a dial tone. She said they missed calls for about 8 hours because the new phones didn't work. I asked her to show me exactly what she did when she plugged them in. She took the main base, plugged in the electric power supply, and said, "There. There's no dial tone... they don't even work!"

    I asked her what she planned to plug the base into to connect with the phone company. She was completely stumped for a moment... then said, "Oh my god! I didn't plug in the phone line!"

    So, you see... if we can't even plug in a phone line, how will we ever survive as a species should something drastic befall our planet? Common sense and logic have been replaced... but by what?

  • beachplant
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    All I see when I watch MMA is work! Blood, dislocations, broken bones, it horrifies me and makes me cringe.

    You missed product placement, the product being advertised DURING the movie, TV show, cartoon or whatever.

    Tally HO!

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I suppose it's like any other full contact sport... whether football, boxing, or any of the other more physical sports... you have to train hard, be dedicated, take care of your body, and be willing to take the injuries that are surely going to come your way! It's not for everyone... that much is clear!

    Yes... product placement is key. Just look at the toy commercials this time of year! It seems like there are more ads aimed at kids than actual air time of the shows!

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    wow....2 years ago....
    BUMP!
    K

  • jodik_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The only thing I can say is that, even though greed and lack of integrity and ethics still dominate a part of our society, at least a small portion of the people are finally waking up and realizing that if we don't stand up and open our mouths, it's just going to get worse... until we finally live in a third world environment with 99% of the people suffering, and the other 1% hiding in fear within their gated estates, counting their money.

    The one thing that doesn't make much sense, though, is that in the end, we all die... and no one gets to take their accumulated wealth with. Death is the great equalizer.

    I'm speaking of the much bigger picture of our world, of course... of which the bulb example is only one tiny piece.

    Within the space of two years... even in an economy that has tanked... the price of those poor, disposable, finished product bulbs has risen! From $14.99 to $19.99 in a depressed economy that's double dipping? Seriously?

  • Mongoose20
    10 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm a vendor for a greenhouse company and this business is about selling quality plants to costumers in a professional and timely matter.
    However due to the large amounts of plants and costumers some plants will not last and have to be discarded to make room and time for new fresh plants to come in.
    We do discard dead and old plants which is policy but we also mark down as many as possible because we do in fact care about the plants.

  • parodise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    It's run-up to Christmas again, new generation of Hippeastrum bulbs primed for blooming, tons of gorgeusly blooming Cyclamens et al. appeared in stores a month or a month and a half ago... I see lots of these plants being bought in garden centers, supermarkets, and local equivalents of HD. Lots of Cyclamen sit out in yards or patios of private homes, lots of Hippis adorn the windows of said homes and those of apartment buildings...
    What is really sad is you hardly ever, basically never, get to see a Hippi/Cyclamen in the windows/patios/gardens of same homes in the spring or summer which can only mean one thing - all of these plants are discarded once they are done blooming.
    We should probably organize rescue collection of such "plant refuse" - like there's collection of xmas trees after the holidays...

  • fishing_dentist
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Good idea, but the main red or pink or white nobody is interested anymore after flowering and specials are rarely sold here in germany.
    I got a cybister Tango in Klee gardencenter and that´s it.
    Do You have any german sources?
    Best regards

  • parodise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hi fishing-dentist,
    where in Germany are you? I'm in Munich and around here we only have a bunch of Dehners, Pflanzen Koelle and a couple of large independent garden centers. The only hippis I've seen that kind of stand out from the crowd are the minis, mostly in the red/white spectrum. I have seen a lot of jumbo hippi bulbs on sale in a couple of stores the other day, some were really huge, split 2-3 layers into the bulb, probably overfed, but then again, like you said all the standard varietes...
    I have run a search on the internet, albeit a very superficial one, and, predictably, I ended up on mostly Dutch sites... Not much on offer here in Germany...
    Guess you lucked out with that cybister! Did it come planted or bare root? Was it German or Dutch grown?
    Lena

  • fishing_dentist
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I live in Halle eastern Germany!
    Yesterday had another lucky day and did buy a Lemon star. Sometimes You find mislabeled treasures in the gardencenters. Keep Your eyes open!
    For ordering i always suggest Royal Colors and blumenzwiebel.nl.
    Have fun shopping! :-)

  • parodise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I've seen Lemon Star in our stores too but have chosen to abstain as I want to leave what little room I still have for something really really fancy, which is not to say by any means that Lemon Star is not beautiful!
    Royal Colors is what i see everyone mention on this forum, i'm considering ordering something from them too.

  • zachplantguy
    5 years ago

    These plants are conscious beings. They can feel pain like us animals. Their roots are their brains. The government is lying to people that they do not feel so they can continue torturing and mutilating plants to gain profit. They are murderers. They only care about power and domination. Spread the word. This should be illegal and plants need rights. The government is s greedy corrupt entity that will do anything to keep its power. They do not care about plants or animals despite the knowledge that these beings are sentient. Boycott the damn companies. They are murderers and sadists. They should be shut down. It is our job to stop this abomination!!!

  • Fred Biasella
    5 years ago

    I couldn't agree with you more. I've said it before and I'll say it forever...we live in such a HORRIBLE throw away society. I most definitely boycott these terrible and irresponsible companies...maybe they'll get the hint.