It looks and sounds like cruenta to me, gonzer. Sometimes you see a bit more of a red fingernail on it, but it can be variable. A real tough plant that can take plenty of sun.

My olens X cruenta does the pup thing and is smaller than my other cruenta plants but the coloring isnt like the plant in the picture

Lisa what is french form? rubra?

As far as I know those are both johannis, hdd. It's one of those cases of things being called by the wrong names for years, and then hybrids get made from them and the registry never corrects the parentage, etc etc.

If you go back and look at Padilla's book, she describes Neo. johannis as being similar to concentrica, with a purple center. Then there was "johannis rubra", which doesn't really look anything like that, but more narrow-leafed and an overall reddish color. The big, light green, wide-leafed, red-tipped plant with no cup color was called "Cruenta Rubra" (or cruenta 'Fairchild'), even though it's not stoloniferous like the true Neo. cruenta is.

Back in '96 I was talking to Harry Luther about the plant we call 'Brasil'-- I had sent him some earlier to be IDed and he said it was Neo. correia-araujoi, which is thought to be a natural hybrid of marmorata and johannis. I told him I thought johannis had a purple cup, and he said no, and showed me the plant-- it was the old "cruenta rubra". He said that as far as he could tell, the one we had been calling "Cruenta French Form" was also a cv. of johannis. I said I had guessed it might be a cross between the red-tipped johannis and spectabilis, because of the coloration, and he just kind of shrugged and said "that's possible". It seems to be classed as a johannis now, though, so I'll go with that until I hear otherwise.

Now, there IS an all red form of Neo. cruenta. It used to go by the name of Neo. hatschbachii. Hatschbachii is a legitimate species, but according to Harry it is a small plant not at all like cruenta, and apparently not in the trade. So if anything is going to be calling itself "cruenta rubra" it should be that one, but I don't know if anyone's given it a cultivar name. I just call it cruenta (red form).

So anyway, that leaves the question of what is the purple cupped plant that people previously thought was johannis, and what is "johannis rubra"? The first is probably just another concentrica, and the second one Harry just throws up his hands! Nobody seems to know even if it's a species or a hybrid, but it was used A LOT in early hybrids, so any time you look up a hybrid that was made more than, say, 10 years ago and see "johannis" listed as a parent, it probably isn't what we now know as johannis. And if it says "cruenta", it could be either cruenta or johannis (AKA cruenta rubra). And if it says "melanodonta", it's probably concentrica, "carcharodon" is probably pascoaliana, "princeps" is probably the purple form of carolinae, yada yada yada.........

Confused yet? ;-)

LOL not really but sorta...good thing i look at the mother plant before I buy pups. Only way I have a clue of what it should look like or is that could look like? Ill get a good rubra to work with

If he's not I am!!! LOL

Here is a picture of my Johannis.
{{gwi:498194}}

True or False?

I wonder if someone is paying ya'll to keep me confused. If so, great job guys!

Well lets make confusion worse, did you leave of part of the above pictured plants name?

Neo.? It is suppose to be species other than that....I've got nothing so color me confused!
Patris

Your plant is variegated ..ck FCBS site for johannis, maybe that will make it clear as mud

ck this one
{{gwi:498197}}

Patris, go look at the thread I started on species that can compete with hybrids. You'll see your plant there. Yeah, I could just tell you the name, but what fun would that be? ;-)

Your plant looks like johannis 'French Form', hdd, although I'm used to seeing it more bronzey-colored here. Both that and the "regular" johannis can take plenty of sun. I would get rid of the name "rubra" altogether though, since cruenta rubra is not the correct name, and it sure ain't johannis rubra, whatever that is.

Ok I am confused now. My johannis plants take a good deal of sun where as the ones with cruenta take alot of sun. Prince of Darkness and similar plants need 30% shade

I grow most of my Neos under 40% shade, but there's a few that I grow out in the full sun: cruenta, johannis, '696' and some of their hybrids are the main ones that can take it. Everybody else burns or at least bleaches out. Even johannis 'De Rolf' looks a little better under light shade than out in the hot sun, but your basic johannis does just fine:

{{gwi:498200}}

hdd, I did notice my plant was variegated! What I did not know for sure was if it was a species or hybrid.

Lisa, now I know what Johannis is suppose to look like colored up. Amaazing color with the variegation, I like it. Now I saw that picture before, but did not match my plant to it. All these stages of colors that these plants can go through are what is so confusing to me. They can look so totaly different within a few days with or without direct sunlight. And if part of the name is left off the tag as with my Johannis.....confusion runs amuck!

Lisa you need to do a crash course on bromeliad recognition for dummies. I'd be your first student! LOL I'm sure all this will fall in to place for me at some point with more exposure, but till then!

I thought maybe it was another blanco el paper post(hehe). And yes it can be confusing as they change. Thats why I developed the habit of taking pictures of plants from pup to blooming

Hmmm hdd maybe I should follow your lead on that and do the same. Not only would it help, but would be fun to watch each stage of the plant.

I guess I do not have that discerning eye that some of you have, but I am trying to learn.

I spent an hour on long distance getting the cruenta and johannis confusion cleared up for me

Patris,if you do take photos as they mature from pup to adult,a tip for you...MARK THE NAMES on the pics,instead of saying to yourself,"I'll remember the name".I know a guy [personally]that thought he could remember the names....He does not!! [signed,anonymous];)

Thanks Bob. I have the female version of that friend! LOL

LOL i know those people and my tags are attached to the pots so people dont move the tags either

I've been going through all my old photos and keep asking myself "now what the heck is THAT?" or "what happened to that, and why don't I have it anymore?" Mind like a sieve, I'm telling you...... ;-)

I've tried taking pictures with the tag in it, though, and usually you can't read what's written anyway, so the best thing is just to keep a little notebook and put a name on it as soon as you get the pictures back, or downloaded. Not that I've ever followed this advice, LOL, it's just too much bother!

As far as bromeliad recognition, it's a long and constant learning curve, and I have blind spots like everyone else. Show me a picture of a colorful Vriesea spike and ask me which cv. it is and I'll probably have no idea, but I do know how to analyze and compare traits and what to look for, and that's just a general skill that anybody can learn, like recognizing faces. BTW, I know someone on another forum who has "face-blindness", her brain can't process subtle differences in facial features, so she has to rely on other cues to recognize people, like voice, movement, hair style, etc. If someone gets a haircut she's up a creek! Just think about how that would be! Actually, it's kind of like with bromeliads, if you move a plant from the sun to the shade it can look completely different, so part of the trick is learning which characteristics stay the same, or how conditions are likely to effect the overall appearance so you can factor that in. Sounds complicated, but it's really not.

OH so true Lisa. I beleive light is the single most crutial part of broms becuase no matter what else is done without proper light you cant expect much but green plants