Reminds me of some I had been reading about; see if you can locate good descriptions and pictures of Betty Sheffield Supreme (but yours has a more reddish color); Dixie Knight Supreme; Mathotiana Supreme Variegated; Virginia Parrish Variegated.

You can also go the American Camellia Society's Website and see if one of their bloom pictures in the "Camellia Encyclopedia" resembles yours; see the link below.

Luis

Here is a link that might be useful: ACS Camellia Encyclopedia

This post was edited by luis_pr on Wed, Oct 1, 14 at 1:38

Judging by the variegation and the fimbriation (fringed petals), I'll have to go with 'Ville de Nantes'.

You could do an image search using Google to see more photos for comparison, but I've included one link below. See what you think...

Virginia

Here is a link that might be useful: photo of 'Ville de Nantes'

Thanks guys for the info. I'll check out the links and see what I can find out.

Virginia,whereabouts in SC do you live?? I'm a Myrtle Beach native but I live in Murrells Inlet.

david

I'm in Charleston. If you're in SC, your chances of having an old 'VdN' just went up exponentially. Back in the day, you just weren't anybody if you didn't have at least one 'VdN' growing in your SC garden.

Its popularity is such that it actually has various "subspecies"... Okay, not really subspecies, but you'll see hard-core growers offering several different clones for sale- some with more red, some with more white, some with a darker red, etc.

My understanding is that 'VdN' can be tricky to propagate from cuttings, but I don't know if that also holds for air layering. I hope it works for you, but if it doesn't, keep trying- that's a lovely flower!

Good luck,
Virginia

Virginia, there were two plants on this property with similar flowers. One towards the front of the property and one deep in the woods. this garden has been severely neglected for many many years and allowed to become very overgrown with trees and weeds. Last year after an ice storm caused some damage on the property,the owner who is now 70 years old,decided to go ahead and start getting it cleared and cleaned up so the camellias can be put back on display. It still amazes me at how very healthy and beautiful the plants are after so many years of neglect..I think we ( myself and some fellow club members) decide that the plant at the front of the garden is "VdN". We did a number of air layers on it. This past Wednesday we went to the garden and collected all of the air layers and one by one as we unwrapped the cut ends of the "VdN" we discovered that all of them had calloused over very well but not a single one had actually rooted yet. The plant in the woods (the flower above) was found by me on the second day that we air layered. Only two of us were there that day and the other person left early so I stayed and did some looking around that's when I found the above flower. I did air layer it and it did root nicely. There was also a very beautiful ruby red flower there that I air layered. It looked like a carnation and had very heavily serrated petals.Every single petal from the outer edge to the center was fimbriated. Sadly I did not get a picture of that one and it was also one of three that calloused over but did not actually root. I potted those three up in hopes that something will still happen. If not we'll just try again next year. I've not been able to find any flower online that even comes close to looking like the red one except for "Fred Sander".

I'll be in your neck of the woods next week picking up camellia plants at Abide A While nursery in Mt. Pleasant.

david

It's funny that you mention 'Fred Sander' since I briefly mulled over the possibility of a variegated 'FS' as an ID for your photo above. I don't think it's at all the right shape, though.

'Fred Sander' is a good thought for a red, fimbriated camellia. Other possibilities include 'Flowerwood', 'Lady Kay' and the solid sport of 'VdN' (I think it's just called 'Red Ville de Nantes' or 'VdN Red'? Of course, it could also be a fimbriated sport of something else that wasn't registered as its own variety, but I'd try a Google image search for the above just to see if you find a likely match.

I do think the flower in your photo might be another 'VdN'- even if it doesn't look just like the other camellia y'all decided was probably 'VdN'. If the leaves and overall look of the plant are quite different, I'd have to agree you've got two different varieties, but if it's just that the flowers look a little different...?

If you get down this way on occasion, you should go out to Johns Island to check out the camellia selection at Sea Island Savory Herbs. Yes, I know camellias aren't savory herbs, but the guy who grows camellias there has been growing camellias for about 80 years. He's forgotten more about camellias (and he hasn't forgotten much) than I'll probably ever know. He's got at least a thousand camellias growing out there, and some are ones you can't easily find elsewhere. And if you go, you should ask him about his 'Ville de Nantes'...

I like Abide-a-While, but it isn't convenient for me so I don't visit as often as I'd like. Good for my budget, I guess...

If you aren't familiar with the Web Camellia Register, have a look at the link below.

Best regards,
Virginia

Here is a link that might be useful: Web Camellia Register

Are they from the Conner Estate @ Edisto Island?? If thats the case you are in a literal treasure trove of fine camellias- His Rena Swick Var is considered by many of the top camellia enthusiasts to be the very best- get that if you can

Also- don't try and grow a Ville on its own roots , yea it will sprout some roots , but won't grow much @ all-- after 6 or 8 years you will still have a VERY small plant. Some camellias just don't grow good on their own roots , and some won't hardly root @ all.

dawgone,

I bought camellia plants form a grower in Edisto back in March of this year but they weren't from the Conner Estate. I got them from Johnnie Walkers estate.. I have a Rena Swick that I grafted,it's now a 7 month old plant and I believe I got the scion from Loch Laurel Nursery

the photo that you posted in this thread--is that from this season or last year?? Gibbed??

The photo was taken back in late March early April of this year. The flower was not gibbed. This plant is growing on a property that has been neglected for many many years.

Can you produce a better picture of a leaf? VdN has a slender leaf compared to many. Your name is familiar, did you contact the Baton Rouge Camellia Society? I am interested in the pre-1900 introductions. Are there any in your garden? Thanks.

I believe the identity as mentioned in previous posts 'Ville de Nantes' is correct. You can usually tell from the heavy serrated petals and washed out color that is consistent with 'Ville de Nantes'

several plants look similar to this one, the key is in the leaf. Have the petals serrated early in the season or, just later in the blooming period? Can you tell me something about the Conner Estate and Johnnie Walker estate? I collect old varieties, pre-1900, for a collection at the Louisiana state University. I will be going to Charleston next week and can go by there, if allowable.

Would you respond to my earlier question about contacting the BR Camellia Society? Thanks

I have another one that needs to be identified. It was one that my late mother had that was planted sometime in the 1950s, so it's not one of the newer hybrids. It grew to be about 8 feet tall.

coastalcamper, that's a lovely flower- is that a recent photo (i.e., is the camellia blooming now, or does it bloom earlier or later in the season)?

It's so hard to make an ID with just one photo... Camellias tend to vary quite a bit from flower to flower, so it helps to see photos of several different blooms to get an idea of how much shape/color variation there is from one bloom to the next.

The leaves look too small for 'Marie Bracey' or 'Benibotan' (AKA 'Pink Herme') which are the varieties that first came to mind... Possibly, it's a trick of perspective that makes the leaves look small? A photo of foliage could help.

Also- the stamen column on your flower looks rather white- is that typical? I'm guessing that the white variegation probably is typical, though it might help to know how much variation there is with that- do some blooms have a lot more white or no white at all?

If you have- or could take- a few more photos, that might help someone to ID what camellia that is. Is it possible you'd recognize the name if you heard it, or did you just never know what it was?

Thanks for sharing the lovely photo,
Virginia

Thanks, vmr423 for the help! Unfortunately, this is the only photo I have of it. The leaves were larger than they look in the photo, about 3-4 inches long. The variegation appeared from time to time only in a few flowers, but they were otherwise pink. I remember that it had a very long bloom season but I don't remember the exact time.

If the leaves were a normal size for a japonica, you might do an image search for 'Marie Bracey' and 'Benibotan' to see if the flowers look familiar. Another camellia that really has the right look is 'Hishikaraito', an old Japanese variety that also went by the names 'Emily Brown' and 'Pink Lace'. I wouldn't want to say that that's it for sure on the basis of one photo, but it might be.

I didn't ask where the camellia was located.. that might spark some ideas about ID. If the camellia were near a fairly well-known nursery, it might be worth doing a little research to find out what camellias they offered in the "time frame of interest". If the plant were in SoCal, I would look at old Nuccio's catalogs, for example, but for Alabama, I would check to see what Overlook might have been selling at the time.

Good luck,

Virginia

I looks closest to "Marie Bracey." It was planted about 20 miles south of San Francisco. When it was planted, there were several big nurseries in the area but they're all houses, parking lots and shopping malls now. Thanks again!

If you're still in the SF area, a visit to the Botanical Gardens there might be helpful... my understanding is that they have a very nice camellia collection. Also the Japanese Tea Garden at Golden Gate Park. Even if they don't have 'your' camellia, you may see some varieties you'd like to grow. Nuccio's nursery would be another destination-of-choice for me if I were anywhere on the Left Coast at this time of year... Descanso and the Huntington are also great places for a camellia lover in CA...

Good luck,

Virginia