I looked up Thundercloud and it's listed as Canada Zone 6-9. Is that what your tag says? If so, it might survive in your zone but the foliage would die back every winter.

If you're buying it at a local nursery and if they guarantee it for 1 year, then I would take a chance if I were you. However, I would not buy it from an online source unless it were hardy to my zone.

I have Black Lace (Zone 5-8) and Sutherland Gold (Zone 4-8). They were about 12 or 15 inches tall at purchase 4 years ago and they are now 8 feet and 6 feet tall, respectively.

Hi and thanks for your response.

The tag mentions zone 4. I shy away from anything 5 or higher, especially since often they don't bother to say whether they mean USDA zones or Canadian zones and if they are USDA then I need to look for a zone 4.

I'm confused about this plant because there is a particular site that shows Thundercloud as USDA 3B and Black Lace as USDA 4A, - a site I'm not allowed to mention here, yet there are other sites that show Thundercloud as 6.

Obviously you are growing Black Lace and it doesn't seem like it is dying to the ground each year. I was considering Black Lace, but the foliage seemed black as opposed to burgandy. Would you say your Black Lace has leaves darker than, say a Purple leaf Sandcherry?

I actually have had a regular native elderberry for about 8 years. The birds must have dropped seeds, and recognizing what it was it I moved it to a spot with more room. It is alive, but is no taller than 3 1/2 feet. Perhaps the deer eat it off each winter.

Mary

That's right, Black Lace does not die back for me; neither does the Sutherland Gold. They are both planted along the west side of my house which gets good sun but a lot of wind. Luckily there are no deer around. This past winter, I had considerable vole damage on my two Explorer roses and dwarf azaleas which are planted nearby, but they did not touch the two elderberries.

As you mention, the foliage of Black Lace is black rather than burgundy.

Strange that different sites have a different hardiness zone designation for Thundercloud.

From my research, 'thundercloud' is actually sambucus nigra 'thundercloud'. Here in zone 3 I have tried a sambucus nigra 'madonna' and it survived a few years, dieing back to the snow line each winter and never obtaining more than two feet in height, if that. It totally died last winter. But, seeing you are in zone 4 your results will likely be better.

Sutherland Gold is sambucus racemosa 'sutherland gold' and is very hardy, mine is about six feet high, leafs out early in spring and has minimal dieback. My only issue is that mine receives too much shade to enhance the gold leaf color.

If you like dark leaved shrubs maybe also research the ninebarks. For me, 'diablo' was too dark but there are other neat colored foliage ones.

Thanks for the discussion, it's good to hear other opinions and experiences.

I've never grown the Diablo ninebark, but am extremely happy with a golden ninebark I put in several years ago. I prefer it to a forsythia for early yellow colour. I don't have quite as much room where I'd like to put a burgandy leaved shrub - the golden ninebark must be 9 ft. wide. Guess I might consider Diablo ninebark as well as the dark leaved elderberries.