Just to be a technical pain in the tuckus...you did mean the Isabella tiger moth, Pyrrharctia isabella , right? No, I have never seen an early instar. I have been reading a fascinating book I think you would like though. "Tiger Moths and Woolly Bears; Behavior, Ecology, and Evolution of the Arctiidae". More than you would ever want to know about this group. This is what it says about early instars. "The extent (front to back length) of the central orange band varies among individuals and with age. The black band is proportionately reduced in earlier instars."

Cheers,
Elisabeth

By the way, I found two Giant Leopard Moth, Hypercompe scribonia, cats. They are voracious eaters. They overwinter as cats and I am not sure how I am going to overwinter them. Any suggestions?
-Elisabeth

I've seen little caterpillars that fit your description with the rust colored band, but they were much smaller than the ones you see in fall, and their hair was a lot shorter. I assumed they were early instar woolly bears, also called Isabella tiger moth/Pyrrharctia isabella. I saw quite a few of them several months ago, maybe in late spring? I wish now I had made a picture of one of them I could post.
Sherry

Yes,that would be Isabella moth cats.I believe there are two broods per year in most areas,though I don't think I've ever seen the adult moth,which is rather drab and unexciting.
Where did you get that book,Elisabeth? Sounds like a good one to add to my winter reading list.

Sherry,I thought wooly bears were only found up north,but my book shows their range extending from Canada to southern Mexico.It's very possible the ones you saw in the spring were wooly bears.What kind of leaves were they eating?

I found a Giant Leopard Moth cat last month and put it in the fridge.Might move it outside before winter so it doesn't dry out.Love those red rings that are only visible when they curl up into a ball!

I can't remember specifically what they were eating, Dan, only that each one of was on a different plant - I figure they must be generalists. I think at least one was eating Mexican love vine/Senecio confusus.
I see little ones every year - I'll make a picture next spring.
Sherry

Hey everyone,
I am CATSITTING a few Woolly Bears and also a Giant Leopard Moth caterpillar and their favorite foods are:
Gerbera Daisies,Honeysuckle and also Plantain...
Since the SOJA BEAN fields are getting mowed down here in Alabama right now you can see them crossing streets everywhere, so I believe the W.B. also like Morning Glory and whatever is in those fields..
Butterfly-Greetings
Susanne(SUE)

I love the red rings too! They are aposematic coloring, along with the shiny black setae. The Arctiidae are well studied (some of them) for their sequestration of secondary chemicals (allelochemicals) from plants. They sequester pyrolizidine alkaloids, many of which come from the senecio family. They sequester other chemicals as well, such as iridoid glycosides from plantain. The same chemicals as buckeye cats. Some of the Arctiidae are extremely toxic or distasteful. That is why so many of the moths are colorful, such as the virgin tiger moth, the great tiger moth, and even the leopard moth, which in addition to the white and black spots has a lovely blue and red abdomen. Arctiidae also are some of the most polyphagous cats around, with some eating over 100 different species of plants. They also use pyrolizidine alkaloids for courtship and have developed complicated coremata or hairpencils for this. Interestingly enough, milkweed butterflies also use pyralizodine alkaloids as well for both defense and courship. They get them from flowers as adults, which is why monarchs love joy-pye weed and other eupatoriums. I could go on about that but I have written enough of a tome. I love the relationships Leps have with plants.

Right now my giant leopards are loving dandelions, which seems to be a favorite of Arctiidae, and easy to supply. I remember Larry saying he fed his Taraxacum officinale, and I had to look it up! Typical Larry, lol!

I remember raising an Isabella Tiger moth when I was six years old (to be fair, it was ready to pupate and all I did was provide a container to pupate in). I was disappointed that such a dull moth came from such a pretty caterpillar! Thus it was 30 plus years before I tried that again :)!

Dan, I just put in a request to my local library for an inter-library loan. I think this book came from Virginia Tech. These scientific tomes are too expensive to buy. The next one I want is about checkerspots and is like $100. I like butterflies but that is too much to spend on a book! I will try putting the caterpillars in the fridge. Yikes, my fridge is quickly filling up with butterflies, cats, and pipevine (I still have some very small caterpillars).

Cheers,
Elisabeth

Haven't been to the library in years,Liz,and didn't know you could request books from distant libraries.Oddly enough,I was going through a box of stuf in the basement and found my old library card.I wonder if it's still valid?
Does aposematic mean the use of colors to warn predators?
Don't monarchs get all the alkaloids they need from milkweed? Do eupatoriums have these chemicals in their nectar?
Sounds like I should be feeding my leopard moth cat instead of forcing it to hibernate.I'll go find some plantain or dandelion leaves.

Time to go to the library again!

Yes, aposematic means warning coloration.

As you know, Monarchs get cardiac glycosides from milkweeds. These make them toxic/distasteful. The amount may vary based on the species of milkweed they feed on.

Monarchs also use pyrralizodine alkaloids. All milkweed butterflies (queen, soldier, etc.) sequester pyrralizodine alkaloids from plants. I am not sure if it is in the nectar, probably, but they also get it from decaying flowers, leaves, and stems. This is why you also see so many intersting Arctiidae moths on certain flowers. It is used by the males as a precursor to certain pheromones. Monarchs don't really "court", but in queens, there is a spectacular aerial display (I have read). If memory serves me right, monarchs also use these compounds to send off an unpleasant volatile stream when attacked by wasps, or other critters.

Interestingly enough, the old world Danaindae, the plain tiger, danaus chrysippus, feeds on lots of different plants in addition to milkweeds. Many of these plants contain pyrralizodine alkaloids. I think I read a paper that suggested that this was an evolutionary shift from plants that contained PAs to ones that contained cardiac glycosides. However, those species that now feed exclusively on milkweeds now have to collect PAs from other sources as adults. I find the strangest things so interesting. It's like one big puzzle with pieces that fit together.

I don't think you are wrong to hibernate your Leopards. I may have them going longer than they normally would because they are in the house. You can always throw some stuff in with them and let them eat it or hibernate under it, LOL! I need to shift mine outside. I just haven't gotten there.

Cheers,
Elisabeth

Amazing stuff,Elisabeth.I like your analogy to puzzle pieces.There'definitely a lot more to butterflies than mere beauty.
I hope all the monarchs are well south of here,as it's supposed to snow tonight :(

Thanks so much for the info, Liz...so interesting! Questions:

1. Ageratums very similar flower structure to eupatorium, same family - does it contain the same chemical structure as the eupatoriums? My Monarchs seem to prefer it in the fall when it blooms, as opposed to Joe Pye Weed that blooms in summer. They don't seem attracted to the Joe Pye Weed during summer, and have preferred the Verbena bonariensis, lantana, zinnias.

2. I have a Virignia Tiger Moth cocoon that pupated in late spring/early summer. Still okay you think. Never raised one before and have only heard that they pupate or winter over as cats late in the year. This one was found on tall white sweet clover BTW that volunteered from birds or wind in my back yard.

Sorry if I have hijacked thread, but questions are in line with original post at least LOL!

Susan

Hi Susan;
I believe that ageratums are eupatoriums. In fact, the original genus was Eupatorium but was changed, I think. It is hard to keep track. Eupatoriums are in flux. There are several joe pye weeds and several are now Eupatoriadelphus, whatever that is, according to USDA PLANTs profile. Anyhow, many of the ageratums do contain PAs. It would be interesting to see if Monarch foraging behavior changes over the season. Although, I would think that early summer ones would be just as keen on PAs since they are breeding. Who knows. Monarchs do not have the mating rituals that Queens and Soldiers do. They rarely use their hairpencils. So PAs may not be as important. It is a good research question though.

As to Virginia Tiger moths, I am not sure. This is my first foray into Arctiidae. I have been wanting to raise some for a while. It is such a cool group of moths. I wish Larry was around. He would have some information on them. I wouldn't give up on your moths. Wagner says they overwinter as pupae, so that is probably where yours are right now.

Cheers,
Elisabeth

I did notice that the taxonomists are having a wing-ding fling with the eups and it was fairly recently that they changed the name of the species coelistinum to Coniclinum (I believe the common name is Greg's mistflowr). Don't know about Ageratum houstonianum(?) which is what I have.