Jo..of course there will be a difference. Group 2's AREN'T pruned except AFTER they bloom AND ONLY if you feel it needs as to keep in bounds or shape or to remove a dead vine. There will be a noticeable swelling at the leaf axils where a new leaf will eventually come from..Your Pruning type 3's are HARD PRUNED which means they are prune 1/2 inch above the second or third leaf axil from the ground which in turn a new vine will grow out of each leaf axil and in return after they have grown and leafed out buds will form for the flowers..Just remember pruning type 2's and 1's bloom on old vines and that the pruning group 3's bloom on the new vines grown in that current growing season..Jeanne

I have to disagree. If the vines are unpruned at the time, you would be very hardpressed to differentiate the vines as to pruning group. The growth habit and visible signs of growth present in late winter will be virtually identical. I hard prune both group 2's and 3's at the beginning of March and can say after many years of doing so they would be virtually impossible to tell apart if I didn't know which was which. And other than the delaying the bloom cycle of the 2's slightly, hard pruning doesn't faze them in the slightest.

It is important to understand that the designated pruning groups are only guidelines and not rules that MUST be followed. Pruning of any type of clematis is not a requirement nor is necessarily the timing and severity of the degree of pruning. In colder climates with short growing seasons you may jeopardize some of the bloom with more severe pruning but many type 2's (as well as a good many 1's) will flower on newer as well as older growth.

Did I misunderstand your question?..Because I Hard prune my pruning group 3s in late winter/early spring ( Feb 14th) and there are no vines after I've done that..LOL..but the 2's are still bare?? I think proper pruning = bloom power.. Hard Pruning a 2 is as she said..it won't hurt but delay the normal bloom time but then again..you'll only get one bloom time instead of 2 !! I hard pruned my Clematis "Empress" her first season and left her alone last year and had a glorious Spring and late Summer bloom..it was awesome...If I had hard pruned her again I would have missed that wonderful Spring bloom..once you play with your pruning techniques you'll find what works for you..Most Northern Gardeners with shorter growing seasons can't hard prune their pruning group 2's or they miss it all together..living in a warmer zone really makes clematis more fun IMHO...Jeanne

Jeanne, I took the question to mean that prior to pruning, will the vines look different and I can't state that they will :-) The vines themselves have no idea what pruning group they belong to or how they 'should' be pruned, so emerging growth at that point in time should be similar for all deciduous clematis, everything else being equal.

And I did not mean my comment regarding the pruning groups and requirements as criticisms. I do believe we tend to get overly concerned with pruning - how much, how often and when - when it is really not necessary to adhere tightly to the recommendations for the vines to thrive. And yes, I do believe those of us fortunate to live in mild climate zones may reap some additional bonuses when it comes to growing clematis.........first, pretty much any type or species is hardy here and we do have long growing seasons which negate much of the reasoning behind the pruning recommendations. IME, there is little distinction between old and new growth for most clematis in my zone 8. FWIW, most of my type 2's (hard pruned) do not have two distinct bloom periods, but a very long one that produces flowers over an extended period, with a major flush at the onset followed by repeat flowering with slightly less impact :-) The OP's zone 7 should work in a similar manner.

Thanks for clarifying that gardengal..I totally agree with you ...how did you get that word italicized?..LOL..I have never figured out how to get bold etc words here...thanks for your input...I think most newbies to clematis freak out on pruning..wanting to get it right..I know I did..once you build your confidence and see the results of proper pruning..especially the threes..your fear leaves and you just get out there and have a ball...Jeanne

Hey Gardengal and Jeanne!
Thanks for the input. I guess I should have clarified that I was wondering if the vines would look different prior to pruning. I'm not really too obsessed with pruning "correctly". I know clems are adaptable. I was just curious to know if different groups acted differently when the Spring approached. Such as Rhodys(getting buds early) or crepe myrtle(leafing out later). Hopefully I'm making sense. I'm having a little Chianti with the sea bass my husband caught. I guess different strokes for different folks. I guess pruning can be like matching wine with food. Whatever works for you is OK! I'm lucky to have a green thumb-so there haven't been many garden disasters. Also, I'm a chef-so hopefully my food and beverage pairings will be appropriate too. Thanks again for the interesting discussion! Happy 2007!
Jo

Hi Jeanne,
Your expert comments helped me so many times.
I think I can answer your question now. In order to make text italic and/or bold you have to use HTML tags. So to make text italic:
1. Type .
2. Type the text you want to make italic.
3. Type .

Same with the bold text.

Here some examples:

Your italic text
Will look like Your italic text

Your italic text
Will look like Your bold text

Your bold italic text
Will look like Your bold italic text

Have fun!

Oops, the Preview Message button removes escape characters. OK, I think it will work now.

Hi Jeanne,
Your expert comments helped me so many times.
I think I can answer your question now. In order to make text italic and/or bold you have to use HTML tags. So to make text italic:
1. Type <i>.
2. Type the text you want to make italic.
3. Type </i>.

Same with the bold text.

Here some examples:

<i>Your italic text</i>
Will look like Your italic text

<b>Your italic text</b>
Will look like Your bold text

<b><i>Your bold italic text</i></b>
Will look like Your bold italic text

Have fun!

Oh my, I am really stupid today :(((

Hi Jeanne,
Your expert comments helped me so many times.
I think I can answer your question now. In order to make text italic and/or bold you have to use HTML tags. So to make text italic:
1. Type <i>.
2. Type the text you want to make italic.
3. Type </i>.

Same with the bold text.

Here some examples:

<i>Your italic text</i>
Will look like Your italic text

<b>Your italic text</b>
Will look like Your bold text

<b><i>Your bold italic text</i></b>
Will look like Your bold italic text

Have fun!

In order to make text italic and/or bold you have to use HTML tags. So to make text italic:
1. Type <i>.
2. Type the text you want to make italic.
3. Type </i>.

Same with the bold text.

Here some examples:

<i>Your italic text</i>
Will look like Your italic text

<b>Your italic text</b>
Will look like Your bold text

<b><i>Your bold italic text</i></b>
Will look like Your bold italic text

I am s tupid!

OK, I am sorry for experimenting here, guys. I did not manage to decieve this thing. The Preview button removes HTML characters. So, it is really easy to format text, but not easy to display HTML characters here. Please see this page for instructions.

Frustrating isn't it?
It's <b>Bold</b>
for Bold.
b turns it on and /b turns it off.

It is frustrating, Bob. But after some thinking...
<i>