I just pruned all of mine this weekend,and wished I had done them before. I HATE cutting off fat buds. Next year, I'm getting out there sooner.

Should I prune all three?

Yes.

Dr. Ruppel is a type 2 which typically means it should not get pruned except to remove deadwood or to contain its size. Sometimes the type 2 are pruned back the first year or so in the ground to encourage basal shoot development so that you have a bushier plant. In my zone (7a) I can trim quite a few type 2s back and get rebloom. In your zone, severely trimming back type 2s may prevent your clematis from blooming or it might just push back the time when it blooms.

If they are newly planted, or have never been pruned and are scraggly, I would prune all of them back hard.

After having excellent results, I'm pruning all of my Clems hard for the first two to three years, no matter who they are or what group they belong to. I also will do it occasionally to anyone who isn't performing.

I have group 1's and 2's that were never pruned and after five years they still weren't performing well and I hard pruned every one last year and the results were amazing.

I had shoots coming up from the ground and explosive growth and hundreds of blooms this year instead of dozens.

Thank you for your advice. Jackmanii and Polish Spirit get pruned back today and Dr. Ruppel gets an inspection for dead wood.

These clematis vines are so beautiful I didn't want to risk killing them by doing the wrong thing.

Pruning them won't kill them, it helps them regain vigor. It stimulates new growth and more blooms lower on the vine.

My question is almost the same (and I'm also Hudson Valley). When does one prune Ramona, Henryii, Duchess of Sutherland?
I know I could look it up but I'm also lazy.
Betty Corning and Mrs. Chomondeley seem to kill back to the ground -no question about those!

For Ramona and Henryii, If they are newly planted or scraggly or have a ton of bare woody stems at the base with all the growth at the top, do it now.

Do Duchess now, she is a viticella and wants a hard prune every year.

COTW claims the Duchess of Sutherland is a type II. Buyorsell were you thinking Duchess of Albany which is a type III texensis group clematis?

Oldroser, if you actually have Duchess of Sutherland, you might want to submit a picture to COTW because they don't have a picture on their site. Link is below to COTW.

Here is a link that might be useful: Clematis on the Web

No, I was not thinking of Duchess of Albany. I found Duchess of Sutherland on another site listed as a viticella.

At any rate, if it is scraggly, newly planted or has a ton of bare woody stems at the base and all the growth at the top, pruning hard now will do nothing but good!

Here is a link that might be useful: duchess of sutherland

It is on this one as a Viticella too.

They change classification all the time. Many websites vary as to what group they are in.

It isn't a huge big deal. Pruning isn't rocket science. More Clems are under pruned than over pruned, I'm sure. People are worried they'll hurt them or that not knowing what group they are in so they don't prune at all.

Many people are living with scraggly, woody, poorly performing Clematis (myself included until last year) That would seriously benefit from hard pruning.

Here is a link that might be useful: viticella list

I agree Buyorsell. Whacking back any clematis is bound to do more good than bad.

COTW generally has the best information on clematis I have found anywhere so I rarely look anywhere else. I am a big viticella fan and had never of Duchess of Sutherland before, much less the id of it as a viticella. I am curious to know where oldroser found it and if it is indeed what she thinks it is.

For reasons I can't come up with off the top of my head, I just don't use COTW very much. I have it bookmarked, but it isn't may favorite site for Clematis.

Since the Duchess of Sutherland wasn't on my favorite site, I Googled her.

Buyorsell, perhaps I will contact Richard or Ian at COTW and see where they get their info on this cultivar from. Since COTW deals specifically with clematis, I tend to use it exclusively for ID and informational purposes. I wonder if there might be more than one clematis that has been called this in the past and that is leading to the confusion. I know this has happened in the past. Will let you know if I find out anything!

Buyorsell, another thing that is weird and I just noticed it is that the Hortiplex entry references COTW for more information on the Duchess of Sutherland and COTW says it is a type 2. More and more curious.

According to An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis by Mary Toomey and Everett Leeds calls it a 2 or 3. "If the old vines are not pruned or lightly pruned, there may be a short display of some double flowers, although the main crop of single flowers is produced from the new, current season's wood.

Thanks Janet. I didn't even think of looking in the Toomey and Leeds book. I do love it but wish it were more Harry Potterish like and would automatically update with all the new cultivars out there!

Everything I have seen shows the parentage of Duchess of Sutherland is unknown so the more important thing for me is whether it has viticella in its bloodline or not and how much viticella there is in its genetics. Pruning group doesn't really matter since a type II can be pruned as a type II or a III and not really be affected for the most part in most zones.

If it does have viticella in its bloodline (and I would love to know how they determine this for clematis of unknown parentage), I wonder how diluted the amount of viticella a plant can have and still be considered a viticella? In other words, if a viticella is crossed with another type of clematis and gives rise to a new hybrid, and this new hybrid is crossed with another nonviticella, which gives rise to a new hybrid, ad naseum. At what point does the amount of viticella genetics stop being to the point of it being able to be called a viticella?

Still no word yet from Richard at COTW. I will post when I hear anything.

Finally heard back from Richard of COTW and here is what he says:

"Hi Miguel
Sorry for the dlay, we've been away as you know.
I have no idea where these websites have obtained their information.
Duchess of Sutherland is a 1934 George Jackman ELF. It flowers single, semi- and double, so there is no way that it is a viticella! In fact, none of the Duchesses are viticellas so it's difficult to see what they might have confused things with...
I can only surmise that somewhere, sometime someone has fastened the wrong tag to a viticella? Who knows?"

Only goes to show that if you Google any subject you can come up with information that is not necessarily true!

Yes, it would be nice if the book would magically update itself when each new clematis is named. I almost bought the Toomey and Leads book until I noticed that its last print date was 2000. think it's time for an update, but until they do, I will continue to borrow it from the library. What I would prefer is Edith Malek and the ACS publishing a more inclusive book.

Pruning groups might not mean much to those in the warmer climates, but where the growing season is shorter, it is a big deal. Some group 2s don't have a good repeat after the first early flush, or at least not until later in the season when an early frost might kill the second flush. The website linked below breaks down group II (or B) into B1 & B2. All of this is important to those of us in colder climates, at least it is to me. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Home of Clematis

Janet, interesting information but how many times have you seen websites break down their type IIs into subgroups A and B? Experience is the only way to determine if a specific clematis will rebloom in your zone or not and whether your type IIs can bloom if cut back as a type III in the early spring. Since most people recommend treating all clematis as type IIIs the first season or two, use what you experience during those years when you do treat it as a type III as to whether to do so in subsequent years. Experience in your individual growing zone is what is important and not what is written in books or websites. In my experience, clematis don't read books and often do opposite of what is written! ; )

I know what you are saying, but it is a starting point for determining what to buy. I know of experienced gardeners who live in colder zones who have give up on group 2s, and grow mostly viticellas. While I'm not ready to give up just yet, I'm also not going to plant 2s in choice spots anymore. About half of my clems are 2s, many are new, so I'll know in a couple of years how they perform and if it's worth it to try more.

Janet, I agree it is a starting point, but do you know of sites that actually post the type IIs broken down into these two groups?

If I lived in a colder zone (see you listed your zone in your last post), I would only plant type IIIs also. Why take a chance with blooms when you know that the type IIIs will bloom on new wood and some type IIs may not. Shoot, if I were to start over, I would only plant type IIIs in my zone since they are much more suited to hotter climates compared to the type IIs as my IIs always brown out in the middle of the summer. That is how I started cutting my type IIs back and learning I could get a second set of blooms from them.

That's weird, I didn't touch the zone field. I wonder why it wasn't showing in previous posts.

I've only see the 2's broken down on the site I linked to in my previous post. Here is the page with the list.

http://www.homeofclematis.net/variety.htm