Your book is incorrect, they should all be pruned hard the first year regardless of what pruning group they belong to.

Hard pruning the first few years for any Clematis greatly improves root system and amount of stems/vines.

Buyorsell,
I am in the same situation, I have one Rouge Cardinal, one Henryi and three viticellas (Carmencita, Brocade and John Treasure) planted last fall. None had any of the last year's stems left this spring because the dog damaged them. However all of them have new growth, John Treasue 2', all others 1'. The viticellas only have 1 vigorous stem, while the Cardinal and Henryi have 2-3 normal (i.e. delicate looking) stems. They also have visible green buds in the corners of their 2nd and 3rd sets of leaves.

Now I pinch them right above these buds, as you advise, I will not see any flowers this year, will I? And if I do not pinch, and instead prune hard next spring, I will see the flowers this year, but I will delay growing new stems by one season, am I correct? And same goes for next year - if I pinch again in the spring, I will nor see flowers but the vine will grow stronger? This should be done for 3 years, so I would be seeing the flowers in year 4?

Should viticellas also be pinched?

coloragobird,

I'm curious to know what is the title of the book that stated not to prune clematis the first year.

The dog did this year's pruning for you. I would leave them alone, except for rose or tomato fertilizer and dried cow manure topdressing.

And possibly cutting back 1/3 after blooming, but not in the Fall.

Hard pruning the vits next Spring will not delay new stems but rather encourage new stems from the roots.

And the single flowered type 2s will be delayed a bit by the hard pruning in early years recommended by many. But double type 2s will flower only singles if you hard prune them.

Our strong Winter winds have hard pruned my younger clems for me. Still waiting for some to break dormancy.

Marie

Hard pruning early in the year and pinching later in the year as it is now will not necessarily stop your Clematis from blooming the first year.

What it will do is encourage more stems to come up from the roots and the stems you have to branch. I would do it.

A Clematis with one or two or even three stems isn't what you want. You want many stems coming up. Pinching these stems will encourage that.

If you don't do this, the few stems will harden and turn woody and look bad and you'll have a scraggly Clematis.

Been there and done that. Naked stems with a few blooms way up in the air just isn't as fun as dozens of stems with lush growth from the ground with hundreds of blooms.

The longer you delay pruning, the harder it will be for you to do it.

The longer you delay pruning, the harder it will be for you to do it.

True, true, true. Don't be afraid to prune any clematis. You may forgo blooms now, but the plant will be better for it in the long run.

Soooo. . . now that I have not pruned anything, should I still do it, or not? Or wait? I think three of my clems are group 3 and Elsa Spath is group 2.

Janet, I had several books out from the library on clematis last fall and I copied out the "rules" about pruning from one of them. Sorry, I can't be sure which it was.

I hope it's still possible to do the right thing this year.

Thank you!

Coloradobird, reread BorS and my last post. Just do it as they say in the Nike ads!!! In the long run, your clematis will be better for it!

N, I was typing my last post when you posted your previous reply, so I guess it appeared I didn't read yours. So, I will prune back the group 3s now, but shouldn't I leave the group 2? Elsa is already beginning to bloom.

Thanks again!

I consulted the specialist nursery page (article linked below) and they confirm all clems should be cut (above strong buds) in their first year. My experience seems to confirm this. I have a rather miserable The President, four or five years old, which I have never bothered to cut. As of yesterday, it had three or four stems of differing heights and six flowerbuds - one partially chewed - waiting to open. It is disappointing. Even though my dog did the pruning in early April, I think I will go ahead and pinch those clems, based on the experiences of Buyorsell and others. I want many stems on my vines. I am not digging those huge holes and buying soil and manure to have three weak stems growing out of each :-)

BTW a rain spell began today. Tomorrow will be the only day without rain in the coming week. If I pinch after coming home from work, will a couple of dry hours in the evening be enough for the wounds on the stems to close? I'd hate the clems to get sick because of having been pinched and later rained on. On the other hand, I am afraid they will grow another foot with all the rain if I do not cut. Should I wait with pinching until sunny weather returns?

Here is a link that might be useful: clematis pruning after planting

Coloradobird, whether to prune back Elsa now or not is entirely up to you. I would venture to guess that even if you did prune her back now, that she would put out tons of new growth and be in blooming form again in late summer or fall. If you just can't bare to loose the blooms now, allow her to finish up blooming, trim her back hard and give her plenty of ferilizer and water the rest of the year. She still might come back and give you more blooms this year, depending entirely on how long your growing zone is.

Anna Beth, pinch away. Rain falling on pinched off clematis stems has never been an issue in my garden.

Anna Beth, thanks for that link--it's very helpful. The interesting thing is the author suggests pruning MORE the first year!

Well I went and pruned, as was suggested. I didn't do too much on Elsa, though. And I didn't know rain might be a problem--I hope it's not, because it's raining now and will probably rain all night and some tomorrow.

Buy or Sell, you advise to prune all clematis back hard? Do you prune your group 2s back hard every spring, or only the first year? The GW page on pruning says, "All of the clematis in Group 2 bloom on 'old wood' (actually on short shoots from old wood) and should not be pruned except for deadwood pruning in early spring after the leaf buds open slightly."

Thanks for your help.

GW page is wrong. I have pruned several of my type II clematis as type IIIs every year I have had them and they have bloomed without any problems.

I advise to prune ALL Clematis hard the first two years

Three years if it is still not mature (if it started out smaller than a one gallon, for example)

Let Elsa bloom then whack her back. Fertilize and keep watered and she will grow up and possibly bloom again.

You cannot hurt a Clematis by pruning. No matter what Clematis it is. Pruning stimulates new growth.

You can rejuvenate old scraggly Clematis by pruning hard. Even alpinas and macropetalas that are No Prune group 1's. I've done it.

If rain falling on newly pinched Clematis caused any kind of problem, I'd know. We had 25 days of rain in February here this year.......Yikes!

I agree once again BorS. Where do all these strange rumors about clematis start? I have never once heard that rain falling on pinched clematis caused any sort of problem. No wonder clematis have had the reputation of being so difficult!!

I admit it was my own idea to ask about the effect of rain. Just because I read of mildew and wilt - I thought perhaps clematis is prone to infection in wet weather? I am sure I read some other plants are, so I asked - just in case. Sorry - I did not mean to give rise to any strange rumors :-)

Thank you very much for your advice !

Scraggly, unpruned, one or two stem vines with three flowers way up at the top are no fun at all and also add to the reputation of being difficult.

People feel not pruning is better than pruning incorrectly when in reality, pruning is better than letting them go.

Plus, they take at least three years to get established even when pruned and fertilized and kept watered.

buyorsell and nckvilledudes, thank you so much for your advice and your patience! I do not want scraggly vines, I want lots of flowers. I will print out your advice and follow it (and be patient for three years!).

As far as fertilizer--every six to eight weeks, right? I bought some organic rose food last fall for use on these. And, should I buy a bag of manure? Would that be better than compost?

Thanks again.

I cut mine, too. Nckvilledudes' graphic pics in the other post helped me gather my courage ;-)

Only 1/3 remained of John Treasure - it had reached 4' by today. I already have 10-15" long side shoots growing out of the corners of its lowest leaves. They are longest growing from the lowest set of buds, and gradually shorter growing higher up on the plant. I do not pinch those side shoots, do I?

Also, I have left about one smallest and weakest stem on each plant unpinched, as there was not much to pinch yet. Should I wait until they grow a bit and pinch them, too?

As for fertilizing, I bought a special 13-13-21 fertilizer for clematis, I also have a 16-14-16 one for the roses. Those were the most balanced ones I could find. My other option was a 9-9-9 for surfinias but I thought it might be too weak and the other one, mixed with clematis in mind, would do better.

Anna Beth, you had a lot more courage to gather than I did. Mine were only about a foot long anyway!

OK, not to flog a dead horse, BUT...I bought several new clematis this week and just planted them. Is NOW the time to cut them back hard and then prune them back hard again next spring, irrespective of pruning group? Thanks. GaryStPaul

Gary, I would pinch out the growing tips as they grow this season to encourage more branch development. Next year in winter or early spring, I would cut them back hard.

Just as an example, I pruned a type 2 clematis down to the ground in August last year. I was sick of looking at the ratty foliage. It immediately put up a multitude of new stems, climbed back up the mailbox and bloomed. I still had a bloom on it in December. Clematis don't mind being hard pruned anytime. I also prune my type 2's the same as my type 3's some years and they don't seem to mind.

Carol

It is true, pruning rejuvenates them, it doesn't hurt them.