With a dolley and a few feet of 3/8" nylon a 15 gal or similar size balled tree should be easily moved.

Smaller (younger) trees establish much more quickly into their new soil and typically outgrow the older specimen planted at the same time. Bigger is not better when it comes to woody trees and shrubs.

Rhizo, perhaps I'm not familiar with citrus growth rates. All of the websites I have been looking at indicate that citrus seedlings grow approximately one foot per year (and this is mainly vertical growth with very little horizontal growth until later years). If I get what you are saying, you are saying that a 3 foot, 2-3 year old tree will outgrow a 7' - 10' tall, 3' - 5' wide tree? This, then, entails that the 7' tree would not grow for four years after I bought it while the

"Smaller (younger) tree established much more quickly and outgrew the older specimen planted at the same time."

This seems dubious at best. Then again, I am a newbie to citrus gardening so maybe the larger trees don't grow for 5-10 years after planting.

Additionally, I am looking for immediate aesthetic appeal and fruit production. So long as the 15 gal tree mentioned by tantanman started producing fruit this year or next (I'm assuming this tree would be in the 7'-10' range), I don't really care if it will be doing much growing.

Call the local nurseries. In my area, all the local good nurseries as well as HD and Lowes carry 7 ft tall semi-dwarf oranges, mandarins, limes and kumquats from FourWinds (FourWinds does sell semi-dwarf - just not advertised - but it might be impossible to get it shipped to you because they might not be able to bare root it). Though, I have to say, I have only found Lisbon, Bearss and Eureka lemons/lime in tree sizes and not the Key Lime or Australian Finger lime in such a size.
BTW/ you might want to buy semi-dwarf varieties if aesthetic appeal is a big factor.

Thanks ashley. I think I will go for the semi-dwarf if I can find some citrus nurseries near the Miami area that have the size I'm looking for. The finger lime, on the other hand...well, I think I might smuggle one in from Texas. >:-) It might catch some of the Florida diseases but it's worth a shot.

A larger tree will require more time in the establishment process. That is the period when a plant must develop a root system well outside the root ball. When a large number of roots have grown three times the distance from the crown to the drip line, a tree is more or less 'established'. Depending upon one's location (climate,) as well as available water and soil conditions, tree establishment can take anywhere from 3 to many more (12?) months per inch of tree caliper. Three months would be for very warm climates, plenty of soil moisture, reasonable soil conditions.

During the establishment process, woody plants are in the business of growing roots and storing energy. The development of new shoots, flower and fruit production, and pest defense will come at the sacrifice of roots....which is why a newly planted tree won't expend much energy on those tasks.

Plants have to follow the rule of carbon allocation. They can only do so much at any given time with their carbon resources. We can demand that they do more....by excessive fertilizing or pruning, for example. But it's always at the sacrifice of something else.

Another reason that planting younger trees is often the wiser thing to do is that a plant in the establishment period can truly struggle in times of drought, temperature extremes, insect invasion, and disease infection. The longer a plant needs to use carbon resources on root development, the more susceptible it is to decline or other problems.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click here for a simple fact sheet

"The finger lime, on the other hand...well, I think I might smuggle one in from Texas."

That is the most stupid damn thing I have heard on this forum in a long time. We don't want you smuggling ANYTHING in from Texas. If I knew your address in Miami I would inform the Florida authorities. You might then have the problem of all of your citrus being confiscated.

We have enough problems without idiots smuggling things in from out of state.

Given that Texas (and California, Louisianna, etc.) were shipping trees to Florida not even two years ago, and since there are no quarantines in those states, there is no chance I would bring some sort of crazy, citrus-annihilating disease. The concept of a quarantine is that nothing should be allowed OUT. This is to prevent the spread of disease to areas that have not been infected. My entering a quarantined hospital poses no risk to the people in the hospital, but considerable risk to me. The stupidest damn thing I have ever heard is what YOU just said. Bringing a tree from Texas poses no risk to Floridians or Floridian citrus; it just poses a risk to the tree that could get infected by your horrible quarantine-worthy diseases. It should be my personal choice if I want to bring in a vulnerable plant, so long as I have no intention of bringing it back out or shipping my fruit across the country.

Ever heard of civil disobedience? Ghandi? Martin Luther King, Jr.? Though my aims are not nearly so lofty, it's our duty as citizens to question questionable laws. One of the most influential ways to cause legal change (e.g. allow plants to be shipped in to Florida, but not out because shipping them in harms no one and shipping them out does) is to engage in civil disobedience. Though I used the term "smuggling", I won't be hiding the plant. What I'm doing may not be publicly announced, but I do so openly and in full acceptance of the consequences of my actions. If a police officer pulls me over, somehow proves that the citrus is from Texas, decides to confiscate it, and then writes me up...well, I'll pay the fine, turn around, drive back to Texas, pick up a new tree, and try again. Furthermore, I posed this whole situation as a hypothetical. You look ridiculous getting all flamed up about it. Lastly, the only reason one would consider this is as a last resort. If Florida's nurseries actually carried this variety, this wouldn't be necessary. What's even more ridiculous is that I asked people for sources in Florida, and you're whining about the one hypothetical statement I posed.

It must suck to be such an unquestioning person. Remember, the unexamined life is not worth living. Don't be such an ass next time.

In the past Just Fruits and Exotics in Crawfordville had finger limes, although they are out of stock just now. Brightleaf has had them in the past, and Brightleaf is not just wholesale, they are just mail order. They no longer allow walk in customers in order to protect their stock.

Four Winds states
"We ship citrus trees throughout the US except for Arizona, Texas and Florida."

We now have citrus black spot disease in Florida
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/08/v-fullstory/1569101/black-spot-disease-threatens-florida.html

It has noting to do with your idea of civil disobedience.

We have enough pests here without someone "smuggling" in things. Have you ever tasted finger limes? I have, and I would not waste space on one, but if you want to grow one, go for it.

How do you know what you are bringing is pest free?

The important question is not so much "Is what I'm bringing in pest-free?", as it is "Am I bringing in novel pests?" Given the widespread shipping of citrus trees less than two years ago (from every citrus-growing state to every citrus-growing state), that is virtually impossible. I highly doubt some new bug or disease evolved in Texas that is now threatening all citrus plants...if there was, Texas would be under quarantine, too. Gulf coast Texas and Southern Florida have pretty much the exact same climate, with all the same critters and pests. Houston is pretty darn close to the swampy state of Louisianna, too, and given that southern Florida is rather swampy...I'm not seeing where you are basing this assertion that there is some real chance I'll be bringing in something novelly harmful.

Look at it this way: the distance from Houston to the Florida state line is about 520 miles. The distance from Crawfordville (where the finger limes were) to Miami is 533 miles. Driving to Crawfordville from Miami and getting a tree, while perfectly legal, runs the very same risk of spreading novel diseases that you professed to Miami as my bringing a citrus into Florida from Texas. Anyhow, the odds of any of this ridiculousness are miniscule. It's ONE tree that's going to be in ONE person's yard. These sorts of disasters and pest infestations happen when someone brings over an infected shipment of citrus, not just one tree to put in the back yard.

Sorry for the condescending tone of my last post, just didn't enjoy being called an idiot and having stupid damn ideas. The whole civil disobedience thing was just to point out that the Florida quarantine should obviously stop citrus from LEAVING the state, and that citrus entering the state (given the widespread citrus exchange of a couple years ago that didn't harm the other states) should be irrelevant.

Additionally, if you contact Four Winds, I think you will find that they are not allowed to ship citrus anywhere outside the state at the moment. In my research, I've found several websites saying they can ship anywhere in the US (which we know to be false).

As I said, I never explicitly stated I was going to do this. I just find it completely unjustifiable that perfectly safe citrus is not allowed into the state. If a law is unjustified/unjust/irrational, I don't have a duty to obey it (so long as I accept the consequences of breaking it). That's the whole civil disobedience line. Though obviously much more important and earth shattering than this trivial case, MLK Jr. broke the Jim Crowe laws of the south for the very same reasons I would be breaking the Florida quarantine laws (hypothetically) - they are irrational and unjustified. Now, his act served a far greater end than my hypothetical action, and is in that sense different, but they are still the same type of act.

Anyway, since it was just a hypothetical, I don't see what there is to get worked up about. You brought up a good point in that I haven't had finger lime (caviar, juice, whatever) in a very long time. Perhaps it's not worth coming up with hypothetical plans like these because I don't like it anymore. Thanks for the info, that's all I wanted in the first place. I have contacted Brite Leaf but they told me they are wholesale. :( I am on the phone list at Just Exotics for when they get their next shipment, so that's something, I guess...

I just checked with the dept of ag here, and it is illegal to bring any citrus into Florida. They were quite adamant about it.

I have bought many trees from Brite Leaf over the years. Their web site states

"We are primarily a commercial citrus nursery, but realize many homeowners want the same quality tree for their home as a commercial grower.

We are mail order only and do not accept walk-in customers. This is due to diseases that could potentially affect our business."

The last time I bought trees from Just Fruits, I had to stop at the ag inspection in Branford. They checked to be sure that the trees were from an inspected nursery. Otherwise, I was told they would confiscate them.

I agree that the rules are rather severe, but now it is even illegal to propagate any citrus in Florida except in an inspected, certified nursery. Legally, I cannot grow any seedlings from my own trees, nor can I graft any of my own trees. Florida does have some of the dumbest damn rules on the one hand, but on the other hand, we have had a large number of serious pests and invasives come into the state.

I do not know how many ortaniques were smuggled into Australia a few years ago, but they had a serious fungus problem and all of the trees were destroyed.

You are probably right that the one tree you might bring is unlikely to be infected, but what if it was? I don't understand why one cannot bring in material from a certified pest free nursery.

Are you familiar with the laurel wilt disease that is killing the bay laurels in the Southeast? It came in on wood from Asia into Savanna a few years ago and is spread by a beetle. It is wiping out members of the laurel family, to which avocado belongs. This was an "accidental" introduction, but nevertheless, it poses a real threat to the avocado industry when it reaches south Florida. And it will get there, just a matter of time. One person moving an infected laurel to south Florida could wipe out the industry. The disease is not apparent until it is too late for the tree.

I think it is more prudent to be safe than sorry.

Its not that Florida has stupid rules-- Those rules are perfect for whom they were passed for to benefit- The rich citrus owners/growers.

Uh, all it takes is one person importing a diseased plant to cause $billions in damages. Have you heard of the citrus canker and citrus greening crisis in Florida? It was likely brought into Florida by someone bringing in a part of grandmas tree from somewhere in the Caribbean.

How about plum pox? Google that one.

The crazy thing is if you look enough you will be able to find whatever you want in Florida already!!!!

Did you hear about the guy put in jail in California for bringing in citrus budwood from Japan contaminated with citrus canker? I'm sure the California citrus industry was glad the guy was caught.

How do you suppose the citrus psyllid arrived in Texas? Yes, someone importing indian curry leaf trees to South Texas from Florida. It is just a matter of time for citrus greening to appear now in Texas.

It has been against both State and Federal law, for at least the last 35 years, to bring in citrus plant material from any other producing state (Texas, California, Arizona, Louisiana). And yes, there are indeed pests and diseases in each of those other states that we don't yet have here. Bringing in citrus plants is a dreadful idea. Please don't!

Thnk you Mr. Texas, Dr. Manners, and Tolumnia.

We have big trouble when dumb asses decide they are too smart to have to obey the law. The citrus bans are good for
everyone not just the rich growers. Florida almost had canker obliterated when a liberal judge decided a door yard grower
didnt have to have his infested tree destroyed. Then the hurricanes took over and canker got out of hand.

As for Ghandi he was a dumb ass too. He said the Jews were morally required to turn themselves in to the Nazis.

First of all, this was just a hypothetical. I never said I was actually going to do this, and I seriously doubt I ever will. If you're worrying, don't.

No one has addressed my point that the pro-ban position entails the fact that it SHOULD be illegal for someone from Miami to go get a citrus tree from Crawfordville. This distance is similar to the distance from Texas to Florida, and as such there is this significant difference in climate/pests/diseases between the two cities that everyone purports to be true of Texas and Florida. What I'm trying to say is that the reasoning behind the citrus ban can be equally applied to significantly different climates within the same state.

Tantanman, what Ghandi and MLK Jr. did makes them far from dumb asses. Ending segregation and liberating India were hardly "dumb ass" ideas emanating from people who "decide[d] they [were] too smart to have to obey the law." Whatever Ghandi's view of Nazi Germany was is irrelevant; civil disobedience isn't a bad notion. It might be they were very stupid people (I doubt it), but their engaging in civil disobedience doesn't show it.

I'd like to thank everyone for posting their views and sharing their information. It's wonderful to have open forums for discussion like this. Let's just try to keep the personal attacks to a minimum.

Only an idiot would blame a door yard grower

Backyard growers are extremely important both in spreading diseases and insects, but also in helping in their control. There isn't 'a' backyard grower....there are millions of us. Who knows how many might be in your community?

When some southern states were fighting what appeared to be a losing battle with the boll weevil (cotton), regulations were mandated regarding the little back yard patch. These were sometimes grown by transplanted northerners who thought it was 'cool', by artisans who wanted the cotton or the bolls for craft purposes, or for entrepreneurs who wanted to package the bolls for the tourist trade. Or just 'because'. Since the USDA couldn't send inspectors around every where a couple of rows of cotton were being planted, they limited the production and prohibited many of the hobby growers.

At one time, I was in charge of designing a historical garden in Beaufort, SC. I had to apply for a permit to grow some long staple cotton. I had to have that permit to buy seed every year. An agricultural inspector came in every one in a while to check the boll weevil trap and to have lunch, lol.

Do the responsible thing and abide by these laws.

Zax, when did Briteleaf go wholesale? Their website still lists individual plants/prices, and Anna (owner) hasn't mentioned anything.
How about Harris Citrus? If you haven't found a citrus tree yet, why not check out Harris site? Ruth is a wonderful person, and has lovely, healthy citrus trees.
Before the ban, I ordered from both nurseries, never disappointed.

Does anyone know when the ban will end? It's been 5? years. Wonder if the gov discovered more infected trees.
It's ashame, one ass decides to smuggle a diseased plant from one country to another..look at the consequences..
What I don't understand is how it was done. Don't think airlines would allow plants on board.

What is a backyard gardener? Toni

Zaxta, It is, indeed,illegal to move citrus trees around WITHIN Florida, unless they have been produced by a certified nursery and properly handled from the moment they left that nursery.

As for blaming the backyard gardener -- they (we) are guilty of the importation of virtually all of the pests and diseases of citrus that we have. The one exception that I know of was the introduction to Florida of citrus ringspot virus, from Texas, on illegally imported 'Star Ruby' budwood. That was by a commercial grower. The State prosecuted, he went to court, and a jury (of backyard gardeners, no doubt... ;-) ) found him innocent.

The bans only benefit the big growers-- the bans wont end any time soon if ever-- the rich can afford to pay lobbyists to get laws / bans passed to benefit them --and lawyers to argue their cases- and pass their expenses off to the consumer. Dooryard growers cant.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of these diseases came in from big growers being arrogant and selfish smuggling wood in for themselves. Besides if the government was doing their job and hiring competent people to inspect at the borders we more than likely would not have many of the problems. The big losers are the common every day folks.

Dawgone, Sorry you feel that way. I'm not sure where those ideas come from, but they don't match with my experience or perception of the reality of the Florida situation. I'm not a commercial grower at all, but I know plenty of them, and have taught hundreds of them over the last 29 years. Other than the single ringspot virus case, which happened more than 25 years ago, I've never heard of a single commercial grower who smuggled in any citrus material. They understand fully that they could be committing industry suicide if they were to bring in living plant material and it carried a new pest or disease.

Directly or indirectly, the bans protect and benefit any and all people who grow even one citrus tree. No lobbyists are involved. And while some people may not like the commercial industry, it remains the second largest single economic entity in the State (after tourism) and the largest single agricultural enterprise in Florida. Failure of that industry would be devastating, economically, to everyone in the state for many years, including all the folks who don't realize their economic well-being is in any way related to that industry.

Mr. Manners, I have over 50 years of experience of how things work in this country. I am not going to get into any name calling with you --or use profanity as previous posters have. I can tell you are a professional and have a sense of professionalism with your posts. Now that you can see where I am coming from-- I respect your right to your own opinion, you can believe what you like and thats fine. I happen to believe differently. You cant be serious to believe that people with influence & money didn't have those laws / bans passed, if you do really believe that-- well I feel sad for you--seriously. If you haven't figured out by now that the folks with money / power / influence control things- you have a lot to learn, and I am not saying that to be a smart allelic. Do you think the people who actually had the power to enact this legislation came up with that on their own?? Of course they didn't-- they were persuaded by folks involved in the industry to pass them, every one from the large citrus magnates ( The Ben Hill Griffins's of the state) to the influential researchers- all who see $$$ out of their own pockets(or their jobs) disappearing.

So who has to pay?? How does it work in this country?? You know-- at least inside you know-- the" little guy" , the common folk , in this case the door yard grower. Now the every day common folk in Fl. can't even spit a seed out of a fresh piece of fruit they are eating and say " I would like to plant that and grow my own plant. They just broke the law didn't they?? So now the common folk have to pay the price - under the heading " the good of the people". Kind of like homeland security, what a joke that is.

Feel free to label me what ever you like-- a pessimist, someone with a bad /sour attitude or what ever. I am not some wacked out radical ,I know the truth and am not afraid to stand up for what I know to be right.Its very sad to see the demise of our way of life in front of my own eyes. One of the reasons our country is in the poor shape its in is cause to many people are afraid to speak up , to " make waves".If folks can't see its things like this that are eroding all our freedoms-- well very soon our country will be just like that very large easter block country a few years back was . Obviously our country's founders had that attitude-- keep silent- right!!

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I do know many of those guys personally. I know many folks in the State department of agriculture, many who do the pathological research, many of the "big" growers. Having worked with them in this industry my entire career, I do, absolutely, completely disagree. I have not been duped by them. That is not to say that the entire industry is made up of a bunch of saints; it is to say that it is a generally good, upright, above-board industry, and that the rules are decided based on good science and with high regard for the best interests of all Floridians (and at the USDA level, all Americans). I'm no Polyanna, but these are my observations.

But I do have to wonder how anyone could support the idea that it should be an individual's right to import a new disease or pest that could destroy a $6 billion industry and the economy of the entire state that houses that industry, just because that individual felt like it? That would be quite a loony concept of personal freedom.

Malcolm,
Hello. I am a northern tropical fruit grower. I do it for the satisfaction and enjoyment I get growing citrus in my area. What is the current situation with the quarantine? Is there any progress yet on finding a solution to the problem yet? My biggest beaf with the Florida law is that I can't go on vacation in FL and bring back a few citrus trees. Can you explain what the concern is there? Can the disease be spread to our area? I was thinking that with the problem being in a subtropical area, our local trees and vegitation would not be at risk. Another thing that I don't get is that the owner of a local nursery here bought a large amount of trees to sell in his greenhouses. I bought a large Meyer lemon for probobly 3x the price I would have paid in Florida. how is it that they can be purchased in Florida and legally sold in NY? I have seen that the trees are certified by the department of ag. in Florida. Bottom line, I just want to be able to buy my trees there and save a ton of money instead of paying these ridiculous prices that I have to pay a mail order company!
Andrew

Andrew-

Read my last post and you will find some (not all ) insight on why the laws are what they are in Fl.-- it has to do with money, and its working wonderfully for those who is was passed to benifit-- you might be a good example.

Mr. Manners
I had thought you to be a bit more professional in your response, as I did not insinuate you to be " looney" or anything negative- I should have known better though. And where did you come up with that any way?? Re- read my post and find where I said " that it should be an individuals right to import a new disease or pest that could destroy a $6 billion industry.. etc" Please dont add words and attribute them to me. Also dont read between the lines- as most often those are empty spaces(your own imagination.) But if it makes you feel better or if you are seeking to defer attention from what we all know is the real issue -- have at it!!!

Only a few years back the people of fl. could legaly propigate their own citrus plants like other states. Lets just take California or even Texas for examples. In those states common folks can acquire disease free bud wood from the CCPP in Ca. or from TAMU in TX. and propigate their own. Now please answer me this-- Tell me how getting clean disease free wood from a certified clean source and budding them onto seedlings is spreading disease??? The tristezia virus is not passed down thrugh the seeds are they?? NO its not. So that dont hold water.

Next- any one can go to Home depot, Lowes , Flea markets, nurseries and buy plants and grow them --right?? Whats to stop them little aphids and citrus psyllids from attacking those?? Nothing right. Also before I forget , any reason you didnt address my example of the seed planting--- man that really does seem to be a dangerous practice.

All that being said --is all anyone whio has an open mind and viewing things objectivily shoul need to see why those bans are in place in Fl.. Gullable people and those not famillar with citrus will buy into that and sadly belive in those who have been entrusted with the authority and power to put those restrictions in place.

Most people , when they know they are wrong, avoid the real issues and usually get mad and throw verbal abuse at the other party. I will agree with yo that we each have the right to our own opinions ( "agree to disagree") I just wonder if you are prejudice in your view as your job is related to the "cash cow"

No hard feelings here

Dawgone, sorry if there has been a misunderstanding. I never insinuated, in any way, that you were calling me loony, nor that I thought you were loony. You're reading that into something that is not there. So please don't accuse me of reading between any lines -- that's precisely what you are doing. Rather, I was saying the idea that it is a person's individual right to do something (anything) that could do billions of dollars in damage to others, was a loony idea. I think 99.9999% of all thinking people would agree that that is the case; it would be insane not to. If I lived next door to you and decided it was my personal right to keep cobras in the back yard, without cages, I doubt that you'd agree that I had that right. We have kind of the same issue here. One person could endanger the livelihood of thousands. That is not acceptable in a civilized society, and so we deal with such situations with laws.

As for the money issue, You are utterly wrong there. Money, big business, etc., are/were NOT in any way involved in these laws. If you believe that, fine; you are wrong. In many cases, the big growers don't like the laws as they stand, but they, too, have to abide by them.

As for the propagation arguments -- Under strong Federal pressure (with good reason, I might add), the State has made the rule that all trees must be propagated under certified conditions -- where they can be inspected and tested regularly. No, the "big money guys" can't propagate plants outdoors either; EVERYONE, without exception, must use a certified, psyllid-proof, positive-pressure greenhouse system, which is the only know way to prevent the spread of greening. Now that I think of it, it really is not illegal for a back-yard gardener to propagate his own citrus; you do have the right to apply and become licensed as a citrus nursery. You have the right, then, to build such a greenhouse (at your own expense -- there are no subsidies for them), and you have the right to allow the State inspectors to arrive any time, unannounced, to inspect. Under those conditions, yes, you too could propagate citrus in your back yard. Nobody, no matter how rich or politically connected, has the right to propagate citrus by any other means. So you'd be right in there with the big guys.

Why are we talking tristeza? It's not an issue at all, and has nothing to do with these laws. Greening and Canker are the problems here. Tristeza is not involved. And if you let home gardeners get certified budwood from the State to propagate at home, who, exactly, will pay to have those trees inspected every couple months as are all the nurseries' trees? Who will pay for all the book-keeping for potentially thousands of "nurseries" in back yards? Yet the state is fully expected (by those same home owners) to protect them from these very diseases.

As for Home Depot and Lowes -- aphids are of no concern. Psyllids are. Trees being legally sold at Home Depot or Lowes were greening-free when delivered, and they almost certainly have been treated with a long-term systemic insecticide. We're lucky, here, in that psyllids are unusually stupid insects. They tend not to recognize trees enclosed by a wall or with a screened roof, etc. And most Lowes stores are not next to orange groves. So those factors lower the probability of spread. However, you are right that there could be a problem there -- the only solution may be to ban all public retail sales of citrus. (No, I'm not putting those words into what you've said; but if you consider Lowe's a problem, that is the only solution).

As for your last paragraph -- that's quite astonishing. You talk about people getting mad and throwing verbal abuse, and in the next sentence, suggest that I'm in the pay of the dirty money you claim is operating here! Fascinating. So far, I have not accused you of corruption. Please explain how I am NOT being so-accused here???

I think, indeed, there are very hard feelings there. I'm not sure where the big chip on your shoulder came from, but I can tell you, as a Floridian (with citrus trees in my back yard), I am grateful that the State is trying to protect my trees and those of the industry. It is annoying to have to have tough laws, but those are not new or different; the USA is free of screw worm, brucellosis, and other agricultural diseases precisely because of such laws. Also in most States, kids don't go to school without a proper round of immunizations. Yes, there are those who fight that, and say it's their right not to vaccinate their kids; but wisdom concerning the common good tends to prevail in such cases. When it does not, people get hurt. I don't see any significant difference here.

Mr. Manners.

You can spin it whatever way you like to fit your views / needs.

I stated there were no hard feelings on this end---

You are in essence calling me a liar (first line of your last paragraph)

Enjoy!!!!!

I give up. I won't bother you again. Fortunately for all of us the world is likely to keep spinning. Florida will continue to fight the greatest pathological threat it has ever faced to its citrus industry, with some of the best scientists doing some of their best work. Some of us will admire and approve of that hard work; others will not. So be it.

Andrew, it is true and everyone would likely agree that for you to take a tree with you, north, and grow it indoors at your own home, would not cause problems. However, we're dealing with a federal (not state) law here, that is trying to prevent movement of diseases, especially greening, to other producing states. Since the Feds cannot be sure you aren't claiming to be carrying your tree to Ohio, and instead you turn left immediately across the Florida line, and head for California, the rule has been made simple -- no trees are to leave Florida.

I am surprised you are finding Florida trees in your local stores -- I don't believe that is legal, nor should it be.

Hello Mr. Manners,
I am sure that these trees were legal to leave the state of Florida. For one, the owner of the greenhouse attended a citrus conference and I know for a fact that the owner of Logees greenhouse also attended. I also noticed 2 diffrent tags on the tree. One was a USDA tag that had a permit number and the other was a state of Florida ag tag that had a mile long number. The greenhouse owner brought 2 tuckloads of trees back and I mean semis. HE brought back a s*** ton of other tropicals. He does it every year and if it wasn't for him, I would have been Myer-less this year. I was planning on buying them from meyer lemon tree.com till I saw what they were charging. $100.00 for a 4ft tree! I was going to order from Roberta's also but they wanted $25.00 plus shipping for what I call a starter plant. I bought from them last year. Prices around the same, I bought 2 citrus for around $60.-$70. with shipping. Not too bad but what I have is awesome and even though I still paid top dollar($127.00 inc. taxes) I got a 6ft tree. I am so sad too here that others could be jeopardizing the situation. I know that people don't think that 1 tree could potentially cause a huge problem but they still do it anyhow. I also know how it must feel on the other end. Doesn't seem fair for either person but it also seems like there isn't going to be an end to this problem any time soon. I stayed in Brandon FL last summer. The guy I went with had noticed a large citrus grove across the road. He asked why they looked so bad and I was telling him what the problem was. Those poor trees looked like they went to hell and were barely hanging on. I was chattin with a guy on the Tropical fruit forum and he was saying that even people will show up to your house with paper work and burn your trees on the spot! Is that accurate? I always wanted to live in Florida and though it sounds crazy I would not want to part with my citrus to move down there. I have put so much into them and I can't see myself just giving them away.
Andrew