My father use to root Montgomery and Globosa and did very well in percentages.

Dave

One would think that the visual variation between own-rooted and grafted would be caused by the quality of the root-system. The own-rooted being weaker.

DIRR says "....Fat Albert, Globosa, Hoopsii, Iseli Fastigata, Iseli Foxtail, RH Montgomery, Select, St Mary's Broom, Swartzii, Thompsonii, Thume and Walnut Glen were rooted in commercially acceptable numbers."

Gotta love that new book...

Barbara

One would think that the visual variation between own-rooted and grafted would be caused by the quality of the root-system. The own-rooted being weaker

One may be wrong. There have been controlled studies comparing rooted and grafted plants of the same clone. Grafted clones are usually more vigorous for the first few years but after several years it is hard to distinguish them.

Many dwarf plants are more desireable rooted, because they are not distorted by early vigorous growth.

Plant77..."Grafted clones are usually more vigorous for the first few years but after several years it is hard to distinguish them." Yes, I read that recently and also prefer own-rooted stock when ever possible. But the promise of a larger specimen more quickly is quite tempting too!

Perhaps though, you should counter with your own hypothesis as to the variability of own-rooted vs grafted Picea pungens ÂJean Iseli rather than quoting from an unrelated study?

Barbara

"but what really phased me.. was that its INHERITED traits.. can vary ... depending on whether rooted or grafted ...

shouldn't dna be dna .... and the plant has to be the plant .... "

Yes; but if the plant's DNA causes it to develop very weak and inefficient roots, then the shoots will not perform to their full innate capacity.

Much like a person with a sick heart will be very sick, but if you give them a heart transplant, their health can be dramatically better.

Resin

There is more than one variable going on here.
It is correct to say that the majority of grafted plants will show more vigour and even at times habit than the same plants rooted by cuttings, but this is not always the case. There are examples of conifers especially firs and spruce that will grow at exactly the same rate whether grafted or rooted.
The point about the plant 'Jean Iseli' and several other similar cultivars is that they do not look like typical pungens forms, they have softer ,juvenile like foliage, are very slow growing and very tight, but not in anyway unhealthy, more akin to Picea abies 'Little Gem' for example. They all seem to root easily from cuttings, but when these plants are grafted they assume the typical pungens stiff prickly foliage and bare no resemblance to their previous rooted from cuttings form.

Bluestephen...so you are saying when P.a. 'Little Gem' is grafted the foliage is different? That had me running out with the camera. The assumption was that either my standard or own-rooted (double checked, it is cutting grown) 'Little Gem' were miss-labeled.

Here are photos:

{{gwi:643263}}

{{gwi:643265}}
Own-rooted
{{gwi:643267}}
Grafted
{{gwi:643269}}

barbara, no, what I'm saying is that certain Picea pungens cultivars like 'Jean Iseli' display similar characteristics to picea abies 'little Gem', but when grafted (pungens Jean Iseli) they revert back to the typical pungens foliage form and lose the original juvenile like foliage that they previously had. Hope this makes sense ?

I thought it made sense...and will if the pictures above properly represent the variation found between own-rooted and grafted P.a. 'Little Gem'!

Picea abies 'Little Gem' roots so easily from cuttings, I'm very surprised if anyone would bother to graft it, and as I have never seen a grafted one, I can't say.

Understood...thanks!

the only reason to graft little gem.. would be to put it on a standard .... so if you find one like that.. you might be able to test the idea ...

ken

I was thinking that...TRY to root cuttings from the grafted standard 'Little Gem' shown above to see if any difference in foliage develops.

You might get 'Big Gems'! T

Barbara,The only real difference in your two plants is vigour,no real change in foliage structure.
My use of 'Little Gem' as an previous example was to demonstrate the similarity in foliage texture, etc, with Picea pungens 'Jean Iseli' when rooted, Not that 'Little Gem' would change in a similar way to 'Jean Iseli' when grafted.

It'll revert back to Juvenile if rooted but now were into the ideals that state that plants in non-juvenile states are difficult to root, hence me leaning toward the idea that a juvenile plant must be maintained to be juvenile (whether from a cutting grown mother plant or whether from a grafted mother plant being used for propagative purposes only - well, especially the grafted one). Too much work for the grafted plant to be maintained..., my final conclusion!

Dax