Hi mike:

The following link describes the whole process.

http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm

After having the CHC in some pots over winter, I feel that the CHC poses a problem for me indoors, in that it dries out too fast and may become hydrophobic. In the room I had my trees in, it was difficult to run a high volume of water through the pot. I lost one tree and the other two are recovering. I'll be repotting them into 511 or 111.

My new trees are in 511 and are doing quite well.

Here is a link that might be useful: preparing CHC

I think it will depend on the type and packaging of the CHC she has. In my case, I get them down the road from an Orchid supply who imports CHC direct from Myanmar in compressed bails which 'spring' open when you pull them out. I use CHC because I can get a 7 cubic foot bale for $30, as opposed to 2 cubic feet of pine fines for $40. My first trees are on their second potting of CHC, and my second set of trees are on their third. I'm not saying this to espouse CHC or anything, but to let you know my experience is not vast. Everything here is based on some technical papers I've collected a year or so ago.

------CAVEAT EMPTOR-------

I fill a 5 gallon pail with drainage holes on the bottom 4/5 of the way full with CHC and place it on a couple of cinder blocks. I then run the CHC under a garden hose until the water is crystal clear (15-20 minutes). After that I dump the CHC into a wide/flat 'Walmart' storage bin, and pour a gallon of warm water mixed with a heavy tablespoon each of epsom salts and calcium nitrate, and heavily agitate the CHC solution with a broom handle. The reason you do this is because of the CHC's strong CEC -is it really that funny?. Anyway, if you don't add Ca and Mg to your CHC, as soon as you fertilize the CHC will exchange Ca and Mg for K and Na. The Sodium can be overcome fairly easily with container plants (tap water usually has plenty), but the loss of Potassium can be detrimental. (http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm)

My standard mix is 4 parts prepared CHC to one part Sphagnum peat. This yields a pH of about 6.2-6.3. It will rise slowly as the CHC starts exchanging ions, which it does, until it stabilizes at 6.5 pH. If you do not use properly prepared CHC, the plant will stunt because of a slowdown in photosynthesis. Even worse, you can cause a backlog of protein that could kill your citrus.(http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ss420)

Hi Mike!
I had to laugh when I read this. My best friend here, went with MG and topsy turvy this year! She didn't want to bother me to make mixes for her, she's handicapped and can't do them herself.

I hope all goes well for your sis and she gets the help she needs.

It looks like windy3 gave her a good start.

Best wishes to her!
and hi to mom. ;-)

JoJo

Haha...You like that Jojo?lol
Just as my sister does not want to even try my mixes although she does know that I am the only one in this area that can grow citrus successfully in my area.Even her friends keep asking me to make mixes for them.

She says that she doesn't want to waste her product and thinks she can do it. Of course our cultural habits are from two different planets and yet she might be able to accomplish what I have never been able to do with the suggestions here. We shall see:-)

Wndy and Mike have been very helpful and Linda says thanks to all thus far.

Mom says hello and that you are loved.

By the way, does she have to buy a pair of fas ion shoo es to be successful at this?

Mike:-)

Oh yes, if you do not rinse your CHC at least 3 times while spinning counter-clockwise hopping on one foot and wearing "fas ion shoo es" your plants WILL FAIL :P

ROFL!
I love it windy!

A stylish pair of flip flops to fit the season. lol!

Mike,
wish sis well for me. I know what it's like to deal with stubborn loved ones.. I just hope her tree's fair better than Carols tomato's did. ;-)

Hugs!
JoJo

The very best company to purchase CHC from is the Crystal Company of Saint Louis, MO. The Crystal company pre-rinses all of their Coconut Chips, than the chips are squeezed dry under extreme pressure. They do the rinse/dry procedure three times, before they sell them to the public. Their CHC is of the highest quality. I have used their product, without rinsing them at all, just doing the cation exchange by pre-soaking in magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salts) and Calcium Nitrate with excellent success. I have also use their chips without doing a cation exchange with equal success. I grow citrus in several other mixes, but the trees that have produced and grown the best for me, are the trees that are planted in CHC. By far the most popular mix used by growers on the other citrus forum is CHC. That is where I learned about them, and now CHC is my favorite mix to use.

Windy: We sure got a kick out of that here over here.lol. You are way too funny!

Jojo..lololol is right. lol My sister said thank you. She is determined to make it work with all the suggestions here. She says if for any reason it doesn't, she will come to me for help. My other sister handed me all her citrus at the end of the winter because they had all almost died in MG. I wonder why?lol.

Silica: My sis wanted me to thank you for your help and suggestions. She says that that is exactly where she got her CHC from. She is hoping that the quality will make a big impact on her success.

It has been mentioned to use Calcium Nitrate. Where does one get the substance and how much do you use per how much CHC?
Also, what kind of mix using the CHC would one use like let's say for our area?
The site that Mike hooked her up with said you should use perlite, or peat and so on. What are some combos that ones use here in their mixes?

Ok, now you know how much I love my sister..lol

Mike

My mix is simple. 4 parts CHC to 1 part Sphagnum peat. This will eventually yield a pH of around 5.8-6.0. (Sphagnum is 4.5-5.0 and CHC is 6.5, on the button) In my latest batch I've also mixed in a handful of coffee grounds per cubic foot as a supplemental organic microfert. But I have no idea how good, bad, or useless this will be. The last leaf I had analyzed showed no major deficiencies in micro nutrients, but let's be honest... it's kind of hard to go anywhere on this planet and NOT be surrounded by Boron and Iron.

You should be able to get the calcium nitrate in 1-5lb bags from a good greenhouse or garden supply. I get mine from Robert's Flower Supply. He's an Orchid guy who sells all over, especially his CHC, but his website isn't exactly 'web 2.0.' He does handle internet orders over the phone and via e-mail, but there isn't any kind of web-form for it. Anyway, I live 5 minutes down the road so I just buy direct and have no experience with them when it comes to mail order, but I think He's reliable when it comes to it. For what it's worth, he ships a ton of CHC and orchid stuff all over. Some guy orders 7 bales once a month for his Snake Collection...yikes!

I'm sure you've got a similar place in your area, try a place that specializes in Orchids or Hydroponics for small bags.. If not, you can buy Calcium Nitrate online from a variety of other places too. Make sure to get the small grain powder, usually in a green bag, and not the large BB sized pellets as you want the more soluble stuff. The big-box stores may carry it, but probably only in 50lb bags. Keep in mind, you only need a couple ounces per 3-4 cubic feet of CHC. All you are trying to do is get the CHC to exchange its locked up Sodium for Magnesium and Calcium before you put plants in it. If you don't, theoretically the CHC will happily exchange its monotonic Sodium for diatomic Calcium, Magnesium, and even Potassium, from your fertilizer and, worse case, your tree roots causing Sodium burn... theoretically. In essence, you're just using CHC as a water softener for water you've deliberately made hard.

As far as CHC quality goes, if I'm able to get time I'd like have a lab my business uses analyze my CHC for me. They'll look at material composition and structure to find out exactly how much salt is in the stuff to begin with, whether dunking it in an ion exchange bath has any effect at all, and how the structure holds up over time. This isn't useful for your 'Sis, but I'm curious to learn what the actual salt levels of CHC are.

My first batch of CHC wasn't prepared in any kind of ion exchange solution. I simply rinsed and combined with spare peat moss and watered using a tsp of Epsom Salt and White Vinegar. My trees were nearly dead in the potting soil, but after a couple of weeks in the CHC they had experienced a significant greening and flush. I eventually had to repot them as their planter was way to shallow. The biggest problem with CHC is that the top inch or so will dry up very quick due to the large voume of air they hold. In pot that's only 4 inches tall to begin with, having 1/4 of it dry can be a problem if you forget to water.

They were in the unprepared CHC for about four months before I repotted into prepared CHC, and their roots were not only clinging to the CHC, they were actually growing into the CHC as if to use them as little mini water reservoirs. I repotted again, after another nine months, a couple days ago and the roots were doing the same. So in both cases, one prepared and the other not, the roots were happy to meld into the CHC. Thus the reason why I'd like to study CHC a little bit more. It seems like CHC has a love hate relationship, but other than anecdotal comparisons I can't find any technical papers on the stuff. I don't know if I've been successful, but I've been happy with it compared to Miracle-Gro Citrus and Plam Soil. Anyway, probably more than you wanted to know, but that's my story with CHC.

I seriously doubt that a person even has to worry about the cation exchange when using CHC sold by The Crystal Company. Their three washings and high pressure squeezing removes just about all residues that could possibly be toxic to citrus. Many of my citrus trees are planted in the ground, but as I mentioned above I have planted trees in Crystal's product without bothering with the cation exchange, and I have never found any difference as far as the growth of the trees. I normally use a 4 parts CHC to 1 part peat moss. I also have trees growing in 100 percent CHC, and they also do well.

Wow!

My sister is reading this thread and telling me to thank you for all you have shared.

Silica: My sis thanks you for your showing her the ease of using them and hopes here respond as well as yours did.

Windy..Wow! That is what she says..lol. You have been very helpful and thanks again from Linda.

A thanks from me for responding to her questions too.

Anybody know how much a bale of CHC's is from Crystal? I think last I looked into they didn't have prices on their website. And how is shipping?

I have some Hibiscus that I want to try in them because the gritty is a little heavy for pots that large and they're not nearly as picky as my Citrus.

I can't answer about Crystal Company, but I get my CHC from Robert's Flower Supply for $30 for a 7 ft3 bale. You can get smaller bags for $10-20(1-2 ft3 I'd imagine), and shipping will be a whole lot less since the bale weights 50lbs. I suspect Crystal will be something around there, as they both get their stuff from Sri Lanka.

OK I called and they're $55 shipped from Crystal. Problem is they don't have the medium size which is the size I wanted. Am I correct in thinking that's the size I need?

I've used both 'small' and 'medium.' For the most part, there really isn't that big a difference. Even the small CHC will drain well and hold plenty of air and water in the soil solution.

Generally, the small cut (1/4-inch) CHC is used on smaller sized trees. Accordingly medium size chips (1/2-inch) on tree growing in 3 to 5 gallon containers. Crystal Company large size chips are a blend ranging from 1/2-inch to 2-inch chips. I have used them on very large size container trees. As windy sheets advised, you should have no problem, unless the tree you are transplanting is large.

Again my sister says thank you.

The size she happens to have is 1/4 and it made her day to hear they would suit her just fine growing in 8 inch containers. Some are actually going into 6 inch containers.

Should she get the bigger ones if they should do well and go into bigger pots, or will the remaining chips be ok for her too?

Silica as I'm in StL I wanted to give the CHC soil a try on some of my citrus but as noted above they only have small in stock right now.

I guess I must not understand how the soil is working because I thought my larger trees would be better off in the small since I assumed the small would hold more moisture? Is this not the case? Or is it that the larger pots have too much unused space in them and the smaller CHC will hold extra water and promote root rot?

Also how big were your trees when you used the large chips? Could I put an 8-10' tall lemon tree in the large chips in the same ~30qt pot that it's in now?

Could you explain a little further? Thanks!

The difference between 'small' and 'medium' isn't that much. What it really means is that per square inch, the larger chips have a smaller surface area. I know that might not make sense at first, but if you think about it, a bunch of tiny little marbles in a fishbowl has a much larger surface area than a bowling ball would, even though the volume of the smaller marbles added together is less than the bowling ball. For small CHC, this means there is less air in the soil solution and the roots are more tightly surrounded than in larger CHC. Make of that what you will, because I really can't see the major difference other than aesthetics and root-growth in smaller trees.

Long story short, I've got my first cutting, a pre-grafting learning experience, planted in medium CHC. It's doing just fine outside in the wind and weather. I've even tipped it out of the container to see tiny little roots growing into the 'gigantic' CHC. It looks kind of funny in the pot, but other than that it's doing just fine and has a good grip on its 'soil'.

So my bale came from Chrystal last night and my first thought was "I just spent $55 on this?" It looks so small. I take out what I think I need for a repotting and start to soak it and it swells up tremendously, had to move it from the 5 gallon bucket I started the soak in to something bigger.

Yea, they are quite compressed. Good luck