If you hope to have a healthy clematis with multiple stems and abundant bloom, the advice you read in your newsletter works well.
Most people I know however are terrified of pruning anything and especially hesitant to remove flower buds. We are an impatient lot! We need to harden our hearts a bit though.
What some folks do is a little of each! They prune half the stems and hope this works. If your vine has only one stem, then I'd suggest the pruning approach. A one stemmed clematis will forever appear pretty pathetic IMHO!

I concur with Marie. It may seem heartless but the plants do better for it in the long run. Like Marie said, I would definitely do it if you have a solitary stem on any clematis.

I agree - it's a tough practice with sound benefits. You may delay the show a bit but with gardeners and clematis, patience is definitely a virtue :-)

Thanks a lot gardengal and nckville, I was kind of afraid to follow the pruning suggestion to 5 inches but your experience and advice will give me courage to prune. From your experience, when exactly is late winter and early spring?

Dedith, the whole question of the timing of when to prune your clematis is something that has to be personalized to your growing zone. The general info as to when to do it is late winter/early spring. In my zone, I prune all my clematis that need to be pruned in late December/early January. I know that would not be considered any where near late winter/early spring by any stretch of the imagination but I know that by that time my clematis are dormant.

To me, the salient point as to when to prune is that you are trying to prune after your plants have gone dormant for the season and won't be stimulated to start growth by any unusually warm spells that might occur before things would normally start growing on their own. When plants are actively growing, pruning stimulates the plant to put out new growth via axial dormant buds. When a plant has gone dormant due to cold temperatures and/or decreased daylight hours, pruning will generally not cause bud break in axial buds.

Also, most people pruning clematis that are established in their gardens generally wait until later in the winter/early spring because then they can actually see where the buds are swelling and use this as a reference to help them prune their clematis. This is especially true in the case of type I and type II clematis since they use the swelling buds to tell them which branches have died out over the winter and need to be pruned out. In your case however, you are not looking to remove select branches but to remove all top growth back to 6 or so inches.

I am not sure of when things normally start growing in your area in the spring. However, you are in a great zone due to the fact that you have such a long growing season. The easiest thing for you to do is to wait until the buds start swelling and possibly even until the plants start leafing out since you are looking at pruning all growth back to stimulate root growth, new basal stem breaks so that you get a fuller clematis, and ultimately a vigorous plant.

Just another point. After I prune my type IIIs in the winter, once the plants start growing in the spring, I will let the buds grow and develop into stems with 2 or 3 sets of leaves and then pinch out the growing tips of the stems. This forces new axial bud breaks that I allow to grow and develop until they have 2 or 3 sets of leaves and then I pinch out the growing tips. This in turn stimulates new dormant bud breaks. The end result is a thicker looking plant with more branches and more flowers. Of course, my ability to do this procedure is limited only by my time since spring tends to be a time of high activity around my garden!

Dedith, Miguel gave you the long, detailed answer, I'll provide the short :-) I prune my clematis back at the same time I do my hard spring prune on my roses - end of February, beginning of March. I fertilize both at that time as well. You can move the timing up or back to suit your schedule or the weather, but right around that time frame seems to provide both a break in cold weather and the swelling of the buds of new growth. I also cut back my ornamental grasses at that time - the less need to schedule different garden chores at different times, the better in my book.

For me, late winter is FAR later than for any of you! Sometimes into April!

Too funny Gardengal! :)

Marie, I can't imagine living in a zone such as yours where winter lasts so long and summer is so short. The main disadvantage to a longer growing season in my neck of the woods is that by mid-summer at the latest, things typically dry up in the precipitation arena and I have to resort to watering. That makes summer seem neverending to me!

By the way, I started pruning both my ornamental grasses and type III clematis today. The grasses had already been tortured by our first freezing rain of the season last week and were looking pathetic. The blades were beginning to break and blow about the yard like tumbleweeds so I said off with their heads. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish the clematis up and do some other necessary pruning. Won't be out too early tomorrow though since it is going down to 25 tonight! I know Marie--25 to you probably seems like a heat wave for your winters! LOLOLOL

Miguel, the tough thing for me is that we get both. We have the long cold winter (starting on the 21st officially) but we also have intense heatwaves in summer, along with humidity, the stuff that causes clematis leaves to turn brown too early or get mildew. Always a challenge. But that doesn't stop me from investigating more new ones you know! ;-)

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean Marie. "Brown and crunchy" is normal summertime fare for any of the type IIs I have ever had to date regardless if we get unusually hot summers or not. Watering religiously doesn't seem to solve the problem either so when they start to look that way, it's off with their heads! Luckily for me, that normally rejuvenates the plants and I get rewarded with more blooms later in the summer/early fall.

I have clematis Mayleen, which I am told is in the montana group as well as sweet autumn. Do these need to be pruned as well? My mayleen is beautiful bronzy color and sweet autumn is still green,in spite of our cold weather.
Tammy

Cherrykist, it depends on why you are wanting to prune your Mayleen montana. This thread's thrust has to do with the pruning back all categories of clematis in their first year or so in the ground to help stimulate root growth and multiple stem development.

Is your Mayleen a recent acquisition or has it been in the ground for two or more years? If it has been in the ground for two or more years, I wouldn't prune it back at all except to remove deadwood and you won't really be able to gauge that until spring when the buds start swelling and you can see which vines are alive and which may have succumbed to winter kill. If it is a relatively new clematis planted last year or so, you can prune it back as was described in the original post but I wouldn't bother to do so until spring. Just remember that you will sacrifice the blooms on it next spring if you do so.

As for your SAC, I have within the past few weeks or so pruned all the type III clematis in my garden back. Most people wait until much later in the winter or early spring to do so but I have found that I can do it earlier and not have it stimulate new growth even if we do get some mild weather during December or January. I am beginning to believe that the old adage not to prune back too early or you risk causing new growth to sprout prematurely is just bolderdash in my zone. I think once the clematis get browned out to a degree by frosts and put into dormancy that it would take a major warm spell to cause them to sprout back out. Even if they do sprout back out, unless they are really small plants that were planted in the fall that didn't have much built up reserve in their crowns, I personally don't think it matter much at all.

My SAC was browned out on top but still had much green growth on the underside of the vines. I still whacked it back to within several inches of the ground and to this date, it hasn't resprouted. The same process was used last year in December and it didn't affect its performance this year. If you wish to wait and prune your SAC later in winter, that would be fine also. It is a type III and should be pruned back each year at some point anyway.

Thanks Miguel. Since we live in the same area, I will follow your advice. Yes both (actually almost all) clematis I mentioned are new, planted last spring. Most all of my clematis have turned brown and crispy, except for Mayleen and SAC.

I am going to miss Sandy Parrot this year. Her offerings were some of the best I have growing.

Tammy

Is there anyone in California zone 9 that is experienced in pruning their clematis (all 3 types)? What month do you start pruning or when and does weather has to be accounted for? I have a few that already have dead leaves and looks like Miguel in previous post said that he prune when the leaves are dead and brown, not waiting for late winter or early spring as suggested in most Clematis books. Doesn't he make sense because doesn't pruning help the young roots get better established especially newly planted ones? Sorry if I don't make sense with my questions.

Happy New Year to all Clematis sickos. Miguel is one of them. One more year with my Clematis and I will be just as 'sickos'. LOL. Thank you too for this wonderful website that helps us be better Clematis gardeners.

I'm going to prune mine as soon as I can get in the garden. I'm not worried about stimulating new growth-I've already got it. I don't think we need to worry too much about when we prune in our zone. I pruned my type 2's all the way back in the middle of July and they all grew back and flowered again. I'm in Petaluma and think I have about the same amount of frost that you do. If I wait for them to go dormant I will never get any pruning done.

Tammy, I too will miss Sandy. She had great clematis at a great price, was nice, and pleasant to deal with. I hope her father's cancer has been dealt with in a good manner.

Dedith, I think you have already been assimilated! LOL

I am really a novice at growing Clematis.

I have four Clematis vines. Never cut back the two I bought, but the two Sweet Autumn vines get cut back every year. The one on the garden fence has gotten to be a real monster vine. Just about the time I feel like chopping it to the ground, it blooms and fills the air with sweet perfume. It keeps growing and growing and growing, but I don't like it there on my garden fence now that it has gotten so huge. I would like it better on an arbor, away from my veggie garden, I think.

The two I bought are two years old and rather spindly. Both have bloomed - one in late spring, the other in early summer - but the blooms were smallish. They did not come out true to the package labels. I have no idea what they are.

This may be out of topic to ask, but what are the three types you have all mentioned?
Early-blooming, Mid-season and Late-summer blooming types, perhaps? How are they to be pruned differently?

What about feeding them? My cousin uses Miracle Grow and swears by it. How much moisture do they require? What's the best type soil for growing them?

Lots of questions for a newbie Clematis grower. I just think they are the most beautiful flowers and love their tiny, delicate looking vines and leaves too.

~SweetAnnie

SweetAnnie, there are three basic pruning categories of clematis. The FAQs at the top of the page on the main clematis page has a good discussion of the three different types. I have linked this page at the bottom of this thread.

As to feeding, different people swear by different fertilizers for clematis. The possibilities include rose fertilizers, regular inorganic time released fertilizers, compost, composted manure or compost tea, alfalfa pellets, grass clippings, organic fertilizers, etc. I personally have never used Miracle Grow fertilizers on my clematis but there have been some on this forum who have used it. Fertilizers should be relatively low in nitrogen and time released or you will get lots of green vines and minimal flowers. The clematis should be fertilized in the early spring right before or as the begin to emerge from their winter dormancy. The plants shouldn't be fertilized when they are in bloom because some claim that it shortens their bloom time.

Most clematis like fairly good draining soil, but mine are planted in red NC clay with a little soil conditioner and do fine. The trick is not to have the plant's roots sit in moisture but not to let the soil dry out or the plant will sulk. Addition of a good organic mulch with help in moisture retention in the soil and in time,will break down and add to the fertility of the soil.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pruning Categories of Clematis

Miguel, I didn't realize you are planting in clay soil with a little conditioner, still your Clematis are still very beautiful. Can you tell me exactly how deep you dig and what soil conditioner you use and/or others. What is your secret? The front of my house is still clay unlike the back where I have a raised bed. I would like to plant in the front too but digging too deep on this hard gray compacted clay soil to something like 18 to 24 inches wide and tall is too much for an old coot like me. I have a jackmanii there planted May 2005 that never grew to more than 6" although I dug about 18 x 18 and used potting soil, a little peat moss, and bone meal . I wonder what the difference is of our CA gray clay soil from your red NC clay soil? Will be much obliged for any 'secret' you can share for growing such wonderful healthy clematis such as yours.

Dedith, many people who move to NC lament the fact that so much of the central part of the state has red clay soil, but that hasn't stopped countless generations of farmers from being able to grow a multitude of crops here. Our red clay, which is mostly what I have along with some of that grayish colored clay, tends to hold moisture well and contains lots of minerals. The bad part about it is that once it dries out it turns into cement and reincorporating moisture into it is a problem. The secret to dealing with it is to prevent it from drying out and doing something to aid in the reincorporation of moisture. Adding pine bark soil conditioner (essentially fine ground pine bark) helps to break up the soil somewhat so that moisture can get back into it. Layering organic material, whether it be double mulched hardwood, more fine pine bark nuggets, compost, grass clippings, chopped up leaves, etc, on top of the soil around the plants draws earthworms to the area who in turn help till the material into the soil. The material also helps prevent moisture from evaporating out of the soil. The earthworms drawn to the area also leave their worm castings in the ground which helps to improve the soil. The point that is most important is that you don't just put some organic matter down and then forget about it. Organic matter decomposes, gets used up by the worms and other soil organisms, gets incorported into the soil and has to be replaced.

Mulching is something that I do constantly. In the spring, summer, and fall, I collect the neighbors' grass clippings and lay them around the plants. In the fall, I rob peoples' recycling buggies and organic matter they haul to the curb for the city to collect and get chopped up leaves and mixtures of leaves and grass clippings and lay them around the plants. In other words, I am constantly adding organic matter. Over time this will get incorporated into the soil and help improve it.

I know some on this forum advocate digging a hole that is 18 to 24 inches deep and amending the excavated soil with all sorts of amendments. In my area, doing so would produce a swimming pool in which the roots of most clematis would rot. I also think that amending a planting hole excessively will lead to the plant's roots not wanting to move out into the surrounding native soil and thereby make them less vigorous and more dependent on me for watering.

You basically have to assess your soil and what works and what doesn't work. I don't think I do anything unusual but just do what I have found works for me after having lived and gardened in this area since 1968.

Hope you can find something useful in my experiences Dedith!

By the way, my main bed in the back yard is a raised bed into which I placed loads of better topsoil and into which I constantly dump organic matter.

You are right Miguel. I dug two very deep hole at the foot of my steel arbor, both more than 18 inches deep and wide. The arbor is sitting on top of a cemented portion of my backyard except for the two holes reserved for plants. I planted Rosemoor and Wisley on one and concord grape on the other last spring but once the heavy rain came, like you said, it was just like a swimming pool. The grape eventually died but I was able to rescue the Clematis and planted them elsewhere. I wish I had known about your clay soil before all these happened. I will try following your system on my front yard and see what happens. Nothing ventured,nothing gain. Thanks a lot, Miguel.

Good luck Dedith. I agree about the nothing ventured, nothing gained bit. A lot of people are frightened of change and trying new things but it is the way we learn and as far as I am concerned, gardening in general is all about what works for you in your garden. Let us know how it works out for you.

One more question, Miguel, about grass clippings and leaves. Do you use them after right away or do you dry them first? How far away from the Clematis stem do you put the grass clippings? Much obliged.

Dedith, I use them right out of the bagger on my lawn mower. Never have dried them and never had them cause any problems. As far as the leaves go, I have several clematis surrounded with a green vinyl fencing to keep the rabbits away. During the fall, I fill the fencing up with leaves and haven't had any problems doing so. The grass clippings, especially wet green ones, I place an inch or so away from the stems of my clematis. If you did dry them prior to use, then you could go right next to the stems.