come on bunkie ....

first admit your problem: conifer addiction

second: admit you will get nothing 'special' at the local hardware store

third: a CBSpruce that isnt blue is a waste of money ... and there is no way to tell if it is inherently weeping ... or a severely injured plant ...

if i were to invest in a greenish blue CBS ... it would be one of the ones pictured below ..

ken

golden feathers
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colonial gold
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spring ghost
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hoopsi .. a REALLY BLUE ONE ....
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early gold
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here .. i will make it easy for you..

go to the link.. order the hoopsi .. and sunshine .. and whatever other one you had a post about.. some weeping thing ... and a 4th .... check picea abies pendula

make it a 4 pack .. times 18 bucks equals 72 bucks plus shipping ...

have them mail them around 4/1 ... before they flush out ....

insert in ground.. and watch the spring flush .. and wonder aloud ... why you were shopping at HD ... lol ..

TRUST ME .... it will be the best hunnered bucks you ever spent ... and in a few years.. you will be removing all those plain green conifers you planted... lol

take any named plant from the catalog.. check the conifer society database for pix.. and put it into google and look to the IMAGES page ....

i have never regretted anything i got from girards... but it takes a little work on the roots at planting time ...

if you think finding a bargain in the store is exhilarating... wait until you get a box in the mail in april .. you will be hyperventilating ... lol

have fun ... ken

PS: i cant recall if you already have a hoopsi ... obviously .. skip it if you do .... though it is one of the few i actually have two of .... if they are out of hoopsi.. get thomsen.. some claim it is even bluer ... if that is possible ...sunshine has a weeping effect in my garden ... i dont know if its the plant.. or just my plant ....

PPS: hopefully .. once wifey sees the spring flush .. she will see the wisdom of buying QUALITY .. even if it is small ... which would be worth the $100 investment.. in and of itself ....

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Ok, I admit I won't get anything special ... except by accident.

Those are gorgeous varieties ... which I could (a) find them and (b) afford them.

What can I buy something like that? ... and have it be at least 3' tall to start with?

My finalist as it currently stands are: serbian spruce, weeping serbian spruce, bakeri spruce, hoopsi spruce and black hills spruce. My wife has forced me to also include the vanderwolf pyramid (limber) pine as well.

As mentioned before, my main needs are for narrow, so as not to crowd out my crabapples too quickly. But in CO, everything grows so slow ... it hardly grows.

I really my black hills spruce and it seems to be the best thing I can find at the 'hardware store' in terms of conifers.

Ok, I admit I'm addicted.

I agree with Ken--it is probably nothing "special." But, there is a lot of variability in Colorado spruce, especially in the weeping habit of branchlets. For me this weeping habit is very attractive, Of course many people don't want any Colorado spruce unless it has the best blue color.

For me I don't care for these blue trees unless there is some weeping habit to the branchlets. The ones that have stiff foliage are not that attractive to me no matter how blue they are. The most beautiful Blue spruce I have seen are of seedling origin. My favorite is near Kingwood, WV and combines the best blue color with great vigor and wonderfully weeping branchlets. I have a Hoopsi, but it can't compare to this tree. So you are right to keep a lookout for really nice blue spruce from seedlings--you never know what you will find. And if you don't care that much about the blue color, and like the more weeping form of Colorado spruce, get it and enjoy it. Maybe it is "nothing special," but if it catches youe eye, go for it.

--Spruce

i see my link did not link to the spruce pages... look in the left margin for spruce ...

order today .. for shipping in two weeks.... when calling.. dont forget about the time difference ... EST out here

and they are due east of cleveland.. they may have gotten 20 inches of snow last week ... better them than me ... lol .. sounds like CO .... the plants should be happy zone to zone i mean ....

ken

PS: come on.. you were going to blow 89 bucks on a plain ole ... give it a go ...

PPS: i have no vested interest in girards.. i just knew they had some interesting stuff ... if you can find it elsewhere ... good for you ...

PPPS: and i am enabling you.. since you admitted you have a problem.. lol

If you willing get species spruce Picea Orientalis is one you should look into. If you want a weeping blue spruce with good color check picea pungens'The Blues'

If you are in the area of that great tree please post a picture and plan on getting cuttings of it next January. If it is that great I am sure we can find someone to graft it. David

Just a few more choices to confuse you more.

If you are interested in Picea orientalis and would like a weeping form Picea o.'Pendula' is a good choice.

Picea pungens 'The Blues' is a weeper to the extreme. It grows on a horizontal plane and needs to be staked for vertical. Would not be a good fit between you crab apples.

The Black Hills Spruce, Picea Glauca Var. densata, is noted for its dark green foliage and conical form. 15-25 ft wide and 60 ft tall. A slow grower. Not sure about this between your crab apples either as your space limitations are not known.

Picea pungens 'Pendula' is the best for steel blue color in a weeping form. Beautiful focal point conifer.

Dave

Picea:

"The Blues" is a dwarf and in addition needs staking. I tried to find out a few years ago if there was any cultivar that might be like the tree I know of in Kingwood, WV--a large, vigorous really "blue" spruce with a very pronounced weeping habit in the branchlets? Do you know of any such? This tree is amazing and makes things like the ubiquitous "Fat Albert" look ugly by comparison.

I like large landscape size trees and often see seedling origin trees that to my mind deserve to be propagated, but it seems such trees seldom are. One exception is the Norway spruce "Pendula Major," but although I have seen it offered, I have never seen a large older one, so I really don't know what it really is. There are one or two other NS selections I have seen, such as, I think, "elegans," that is fairly large--larger than a semi-dwarf, that are quite nice. But in general it seems to me that those of us who want large landscape sized trees with any of the really beautiful characteristics that sometimes appear in seedlings will continue to be frustrated. If it is not a dwarf, forget it. Not fair!

--Spruce

do it! .. do it!!! .. DO IT !!!!

lol .. you know i am just having fun with you ...

JUST DO IT >>>

ken

PS: we are like a bunch of dope dealers ... rotf ... but with conifers ... just try a little bit, the man said ....

You can also look at this picture I have on my web site. This plant was founded by Joel Spingarn of the ACS fame. This is ultra-blue and a very pendulous habit. The one pictured had a skirt on it that was approx. 10' wide whild the plant was approx. 7' tall. I have since sold the plant but still graft off of others.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: dave's nursery

It sounds like we are talking about a blue pungens with a growth pattern of a serbian spruce. I have never seen anything like that. All the very weeping blue spuces that I have seen have to be staked. The only thing that might look that way in time would be Bush's Lace. Its color isn't as blue as Hoopsii though.

David

David:

Like a Serbian spruce? Yes, pretty close, I guess. I am surprized that you don't see any like that where you are. The one in Kingwood, WV, which I admit I have not seen for three years or so, is on state route 7 as you approach the old part of town from the east. As the road dips just before going up the final hill into the old town it is on the right. Not a "pendula" as we usually think of them. Very upright and tall and moderately broad, but the branchlets weep very nicely--but not completely vertically--and form a very, very dense crown. I see other trees with a less pronounced weeping habit and a more open crown fairly often. There is one here in Winchester that has a moderately open crown with the branchlets weeping down at a good angle for about three feet or so. It is on Fox Drive between route 50 and 522.

Yes, I know, I should be shot--for not getting a digital camera and posting photos of these trees.

I have just ordered 50 seedlings from the "Blue Wonder" of "Van Sikes" strain. I believe this strain has some tendency towards developing weeping branchlets, and some occasional trees in the strain may have a really strong tendency that way. In a few years I will be able to report on that.

But someone should graft a tree like those I am talking about--they are really stunning in my opinion. And the weeping branchlets really make their good blue color more effective. I have given directions to the one in Kingwood--so you conifer people should go there and get permission to cut some scionwood! Propagate the sucker and I will be the first customer.

--Spruce

Thats folks ... and Ken for helping me with my problems.

Those are some gorgeous varieties you posted Ken.

I've been out measuring the room I have today, since the weather was nice and the snow is mostly gone.

I like the stuff at Girards, but the sizes are quite small, as you said.

The ratings on davesgarded for girards are kind of 'mixed' ... certainly not consistenly excellent. But I'll take you word for it they are good. Forestfarm looks much better (rated) and the sizes for what I'm looking for are way better (bigger). Of course, they have less specialty stuff.

FF has a Golden Norway Spruce which I have a couple large spots for ... not between crabs. What do you think of those for CO and fairly high alkaline soil?

I did a little digging today and was surprised to find "lots" of worms in the soil ... something I none of about a year ago. My yard has so much decomposing mulch that I think they are finally moving into my soil! I think I brought in about 150 yards of it.

I know that these trees all say they get much bigger, but in CO, I've not seen these get as big. For example, my black hills spruce is about 6' tall but barely 1.5' wide ...

I like the idea of getting those golden spruce, but the wifey just would accept me buying a 12" anything ... she can barely handle it when I buy a 3 or 4 footer.

I was wondering if in my tighter areas behind the crabs, I could put a fat albert or something?

I'm leaning towards getting (4) serbian(s) and a couple black hills spruce and maybe a hoopsi or two. Those are all good deals at FF. As mentioned before, I'm also thinking about the picea abies aurea (golden norway).

Last year, HD got in some huge dwarf albertas ... maybe 6-7' that would fit well in my tighest areas ... where I maybe only have 7+ ft to the nearest trees.

Its funny how many people are reccoemending the very unique Picea pungens 'Pendula' ... but all the pictures I see make it look like a clump of branchs on the ground, or just a few feet off the ground. I'm not sure about that one ... it's cool ... but I can hear my wife calling it other names. FF does have that in a 3' size/5 gal potted ... for $59.

Scott

Hi Scott,

This photo of Picea pungens "Pendula' many have seen before but I will post again for consideration by you and your wife.

Since you are only familiar with this conifer laying on the ground don't be surprised. I see them grown in many forms. Mine was staked for vertical growth for several years. This conifer is 10 years old now and beginning to develop some character. The stake at the top was added last year for main leader correction. It will be removed shortly.

Dave

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HI Scott,

If you want a yellow spruce picea orientalis 'Skylands' is by far the best if it will grow in your location. It may be a little slower but the color is great. David

I do love the one you have there ... thats wonderful.

Are they difficult, or does it just require staking for the leader?

One thing I've noticed is that everything grows much smaller here, due to our lousy soil and short growing season.

I love that skylands. I might even grow here. I saw it listed in a UT article and we are similar to UT here.

Anyone know where I can find one of these?

Ok, Well I found the skylands at Girards for $30 for a 2yr graft. Any idea how tiny that would be?

'Pendula' wasn't around much until Iseli nursery started producing it in the 1970s.

Here is a link that might be useful: Iseli Nursery Photo Page Picea pungens 'Pendula'

2nd year Skylands graft will likely be small. Call Girards, they will tell you approximate size.

i have lost 4 skylands in my zone 5 ... and the 5th is carp ...

any yellow tissued plant will suffer in z5 .. to varying degrees ... due to winter sun and winter wind .. freeze thawing the tissue.. and the wind desiccating it ...

in a highly protected micro climate.. it can be done.. part shade in winter ...

but i seem to recall your wind situation at 50 mph all winter ... i dont know if skylands will work for you ...

ken

Ken, your probably right.

I have a lot of wind and a lot of snow. Its actually pretty harsh, because I live just over the top of a 350' ridge ... and its always quite snowy on this back side of the ridge.

I'm not really a guru like many of you probably are ... but I'm trying to get away from what the masses are doing ... which is 75% austrian pine and maybe 20% blue spruce ... very boring.

If I had to buy from forestfarm today, I would probably get 4 serbians (my favorite), a weeping serbian, a weeping norway and 1 or 2 hoopsi ... those are my favorites and all within my price range, but not tiny to start with.

I know that probably not exotic ... but considering what I said above ... in my neighborhood, it would be a lot of variety.

Do you have an opinion on the Bakeri variety of spruce ? Those also might fit my requirement for smaller size and narrower form.

I'm particularly interested in those 5 gal. plants from FF ... yes, the shipping is high, but its still a lot cheaper than anything I buy locally (comperable to the hardware store).

side note: do you think blue star juniper would do well for me?

So I am still considering a skylands.

I have fairly high winds at times ... but I never get about 93 in the summer and -20 is pretty much the coldest it ever gets here ... this last winter, maybe -10 was the coldest.

I have some shelter in front of my house, but it would only get morning sun and a couple hours in the afternoon. That might be a good match for the skylands?

Also, do you know if a Ph of 7-7.5 would be too high?