Aahh, I think we did this a while ago, no?

Nancy.

Absolutely gorgeous day here too. I don't remember doing this one before, but that doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. I'm wondering about the word denim. If we knew the language it came from, would that help us to nail down the region or country? Is it from the same place as the word khaki?

Just thinking out loud here.

TM

It is hot here with a heat advisory through Wednesday. We are in South Dakota for a niece's wedding. The reception is beng held on a farm in an old barn-like building with no air conditioning. Unless it cools off this evening we will be staying only a short time.

Denim, hmm, I am thinking of somewhere south, way south.

Hmmm, I wondered, too, if we have done this before after I posted. Since two out of three think not, I guess we can go with it.

The word for denim actually came from a different country than the cloth originally, although the name stuck. Jean references the original location of the fabric production.

Today would be perfect for sailing. I need a boat. Sigh. Well, need much more than that, but it would be a start.

Going out to fill the bird bath and see if a little injured bird is still there. He didn't fly away when Annabelle went out, so of course she grabbed him, but let him go immediately- my screaming at her may have had slight influence even though she really doesn't go after birds. He hopped away, but may have had an injured wing. I left him thinking it was better. If he could fly, he would and if not then maybe a quicker death from the dogs... Gosh, I hate that.(no clues in that paragraph. Just jabbering).

Cynthia

Break time. I would love to have a plate of cold cuts and cheese. Love salami, but don't have any here. It isn't something I usually think of when I am at the store and I am too lazy to run out for it now. :(

Cynthia

Sounds like you want an Italian sub. I don't make one at home but that is my choice when we eat subs out.

More thinking out loud. Denim is basically canvas, right? At least I think I remember reading that Levi Strauss made the original Levi's out of canvas, dyed with indigo, maybe? So what makes some canvas denim? Is it just the color? Or is denim canvas woven using different color threads, like blue and white?

Canvas would fit in with the clue about sailing, if that was a clue, and I think it was.

I know I've heard about the origin of denim, but it isn't coming back to me.

Where is salami from? Italy? Germany?

Scratching my head.

TM

Yes, TM, it is a blue and white woven material. The sailing clue has to do with those doing the sailing actually since their trousers were made of denim although it wasn't yet called that. The word denim comes from "de Nimes" in France where they began to make the fabric, but the fabric itself originated in another country, in another city. If I were teaching you to read, you might make a mistake in spelling jean if you used another letter that sometimes sounds the same (thinking of the city here, not the country).

Bobbie, yes, big fan of Italian subs or hoagies as we call them-can't come from Philadelphia and not be. We are very specific as far as salami goes-never just the generic form!

I am not being very clever today. Sorry.

Cynthia

While we're on the subject, what about the word dungarees? That sounds like an Indian (from India) word. Does that have any bearing on our question? I'd look it up, but I don't want to risk being a cheater.

TM

Hmmm....don't know, so I will look it up! Then, you won't have to worry.

Cynthia

You are so smart TM! Also, good thing you didn't look it up b/c the answer to my question was just below these two paragraphs. Here you go: From The Word Detective âÂÂDungareesâ is indeed simply another, now antiquated, term for what we call âÂÂjeans,â casual trousers made of denim, most often blue in color. The name âÂÂdungareesâ is a relic of the British colonial presence in India. âÂÂDungriâ was the Hindi name of a particular type of thick, durable cotton cloth exported from India to England in the 18th century, originally used to make sails and tents. Eventually âÂÂdungriâ cloth was pressed into service in the manufacture of work clothes, gained an extra syllable in its name, and became âÂÂdungaree.âÂÂ
I doubt that if you were to wander into the average American department store today and ask for a pair of âÂÂdungareesâ that the clerk would know where to look, but while the term has definitely faded on this side of the Atlantic, it seems to have acquired a new meaning in Britain. According to a draft addition to the Oxford English Dictionary dated 2006, âÂÂdungareeâ over there now means âÂÂtrousers with a bib held up by shoulder straps,â or what we in the US have been calling âÂÂoverallsâ for the past 150 years."

Cynthia

Thanks, Cynthia. You're a full service trivia provider!

TM

It is so hard for me to believe that vacation is over. Now, I will look forward to the holidays-Labor Day, Columbus Day.

Cynthia

Specific Italian salami has to be G____. The best.

I also remember that they were/are dyed with indigo. What makes them blue and white? I just checked my new very dark blue denims and they are, while not exactly white, very light colored inside . How does that work that the dye doesn't color both sides?

If we had this question before I do not remember or it was before I was playing.

I'm just going to go with Italy for my guess.

TM

Four stars for Bobbie and TM! Yes, the term jean is a form of Genoa which is indeed in Italy. The French word for that city is Gênes which morphed into the English word jeans. There has been debate as to whether Nîmes, France or Genoa, Italy was the place where denim originated, but most of the fabric imported by England was from Genoa and then there is historical evidence from mid-17th century art:

Until now, there were only fragmented written records to rely on to document the shipments of the low-cost fabric that flooded from Genoa into northern Europe -- and especially England -- in the mid-17th century.
But art historians believe the newly-discovered works were painted somewhere around Venice, suggesting that jeans have Italian, rather than French, ancestry.
"In people's minds, jeans used to be all about Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, about the United States," said Francois Girbaud, a designer who helped curate the exhibition.
"Nimes or Genoa? I don't have the answer. But it's amusing to think that jeans already existed in 1655."
Establishing exactly where jeans originated has been difficult because few records documenting their earliest manufacture and export survived.
Unlike finely embroidered clothing owned by the aristocracy, which has ended up in collections and museums, denim was favoured by the working class, who wore it until it fell to pieces and had to be discarded.
"We have accounts from an English tailor saying that his fabric came from Genoa, and that is the origin of jeans," said the curator of the exhibition, Gerlinde Gruber.
"But this gives us new documentary proof of a historical reality that has been forgotten."

Sailors from Genoa wore clothing from the fabric.

Thanks for playing, you two. Have a lovely Sunday. It is cool enough for jeans here this morning, but it will be back to shorts by mid-day. :)

Cynthia

Thanks, Cynthia, for the stars and fun.

A little extra trivia for you: Did you know that a larger than standard jib sail on a sailboat is called a Genoa jib? Sailors usually just call it a jenny.

TM

NO! I did not know that, TM. I have heard the term jenny, but never considered its source. How very cool. Thanks for telling me. Now, who (whom?) can I quiz on that? Maybe my cousins since grandparents, parents and aunts/uncles are gone (they were all the real sailors in the family).

Cynthia

Thanks for the stars, Cynthia. Don't know a lot of clothes history but do know about salami. Good clues.