All problems take time to show

Dale, I'm hoping that there are no problems to worry about..Like I said, Anna's plants were checked and passed..
BTW, DAle, got my fig today..quite disappointed..it's about 7" tall..Someone here said they ordered from Henry Fields and got a big plant. hmm..lol.
I hope it overwinters all right..I'm going to go to the fig forum and ask questions. Toni

Toni I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but really, if you have been buying plants for 10 years, then you should have known when you purchase a $9.95 Fig from a seed catalog company like Henry Fields that you would get a plant only about 6 or 7 inches tall. You didn't expect a 2 or 3 foot plant? - Millet

EGO, no matter how you try to justify your actions, or try to excuse the laws away, you would still be breaking the law by "sneakning" citrus into commerical areas.......screens or no screens. If you really believed what you are saying is honorable, then you would not have to "sneak" them in underhandedly. - Millet

Millet, I can't recall who said it, but I believe it was here on Citrus..we were discussing figs and someone wrote they ordered a Fig from HF's and it was a good size..Nope, I wasn't expecting a 2-3' plant, but was hoping it was at least a foot tall. Plus, there were 8 leaves, 2 yellow, which frightens me. I plucked them off. The plant is isolated in case of pests.
I guess size varies to the poster..If one is used to ordering from, say Logee's, they would think a 7" fig is large.
Though HF's sells seeds, they also sell potted plants..Houseplants, trees, bushes, perrenials and annuals.
Fall catalogs contain bulbs
Price shouldn't have anything to do with it..When you think 3-4' citrus trees are sold at 14.00, $4.05 higher in cost. Toni

Toni, my suggestion, next time buy from a good NURSERY, not a seed catalog company, when you try to save money you ALWAYS get what you pay for. - Millet

I think a big "atta boy" is in order for Benny. Bigger picture thinking going on there. I get a real sense that you care about your trees as well some farmer with acres of California navels.

On the other hand, the gist is:

MY trees are clean. I'll take them wherever I damn please.
I can make YOUR trees better by osmosis.
The laws are worthless, break them if you have a screen.

EGO, tell us that your trolling. Please. Tell us its just a ruse to stir things up. Please. I've read most all of your posts for over a year and a half. I'm hoping that one of your other egos is a kinder gentler sort. Not a short-sighted selfish goober.
Warmest regards to Arthur, Benny, and anyone else who cares........ Scott, former citrus importer.

Millet - Be careful trying to put words into the mouth of an extremely competent wordsmith. I never said it was "honorable" and I never mentioned that it was "legal". I DID say the laws in Florida are idiotic and that I would be willing to take my chances -- just as I did when I drove 70mph every day on the Garden State Parkway (when the speed limit was 55). It's a true moment of irony when YOU lecture ME about honor. But, I'm amused nonetheless.

Scott - Apparently you aren't reading ALL of my posts. Or else you're reading them with blinders on. Don't be so sensitive. Better yet, become active. Do you even know the basis for the various import laws? Do you know which states have the laws? Do you even know what the laws ARE? How dare you accuse me of "trolling" because of an opinion on Florida's citrus laws. How dare you accuse me of trying to "stir things up" because I stated that my trees would actually IMPROVE the Florida crop. How dare you attempt to lump two years worth of posts -- from which I've made many friends and answered many questions publicly and privately -- into one alleged negative campaign. How dare you paraphrase MY words with YOUR profanity. You want to know about me? Well, here it is: I'm a former nursery owner who enjoys conversing about various plants, in forums like this. I don't care for bullies, self-professed know-it-alls and the self-righteous (a category that you are currently falling under). I'm honest, to a fault sometimes. I have opinions, and there aren't too many people with the credentials to change them. When I'm wrong, I apologize (and there are several folks here who can attest to that). When I'm right, I rarely gloat (search the way-back, if you must). So, back off. I don't think either of us wants a confrontation.

Millet, as far as getting what you pay for, I agree to a degree, but I recently ordered a 25.00, not including tax, Philodenron from a reputable nursery. Upon it's arrival, I opened the box, and noticed some brown leaves..No biggie. Removed them..The next day, another brown leaf. Again I clipped it. I decided to inspect the Philo, and it was loaded with mites. I was so frustrated because as the days went by another leaf would brown. I clipped each one, removed plant from pot, discarded soil and pot, and planted in new medium and container. I will not mention the name of the nursery, but if anyone's interested they can contact me.
Also, as far as you get what you pay for theory, let's talk citrus. As you and everyone else knows I buy most of my citrus from Briteleaf. She charges 15-20.00 per tree. I have always been satisfied, never found pests, and shipping was fast. Shipping charges are 10.00 which can't be beat. I believe any nursery that charges $20.00 or more for a 3-4' tree is unethical and should be illegal. Toni

Look, the law is the law.
We don't break the law if we think a law is unjust or whether or not we'll get caught. This results in anarchy.
Robbing a bank is wrong even if you think it's right to steal from the rich and give to the poor.

I have no respect or require friendship of anyone who knowingly breaks the law to satisfy their own wants or needs. They also make horrible neighbors.
IMHO
Tom

Tom - I can certainly respect you for feeling that way. I should never have to worry about you going over the speed limit, or taking an 'extra' deduction on your taxes. By the way, my neighbors love me.

I dont think Florida needs more problems ( remember the presidential elections ) I you lived in a state that a citrus diseases was not common. Would you like someone driving into your state with a citrus tree in the back of there car or truck.

Also I can afford to pay $50-70 for a tree many cant, Myself I do go with a lower cost tree, at times not knowing if they make the winters.

I also found that reading this posting although long there is a lot of good postings
Im getting pretty sick of the fights an arguments, Not to say I've been a part of it. We are all here to learn an teach .If there is a matter of disagreeing than lets e-mail each other before bringing it here and fight and argue though e-mail

Hmmm... Ego the doors wide open. Now try to play nice...

I believe AAE was only trying to make a point, express an opinion. His intentions were not meant to purposely smuggle infected plants in any US state.
How many here can honestly say they've never done anything wrong? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
We all in some way have broken laws, even as simple as running a stop sign, speeding, or making an illegal u-turn. Come on folks, fess up. Toni

EGO, I would like to sincerely apologize for my profaning of your words. But other than that, is my summation not the way you feel? I do not know the specifics of Texas law regarding citrus. I do know that you can't bring citrus into citrus producing states. Good law, I think. You seem to have a problem with Floridas' citrus regs especially. It seems from past posts that the fact that they can slash and burn at will is what really gets to you. While I don't know Texas' laws, I have familiarized myself with Floridas' because I buy plants there. The reason for the laws, as I see it, is to save the citrus farmer's livelyhood.
Because we are all here to learn, and because you have knowledge on the subject, It would be useful if you gave your opinion on what citrus growing states SHOULD be doing to fight the spread of canker greening tresteza(sp).
Yeah man, I'd be bummed if a tree in my neighborhood turned up positive, and they came at mine with a flamethrower. But I would hand them a bic lighter and step aside. Bigger picture, Tex.
So these neighbors you get along with, is it going to be okay if they have their buddy in Florida send them a care package of unknowingly infected plant material? Are there any problems with Texas' laws that you disagree with? I don't think you are on some negative campaign, but rather seeking clarification of how you think things should be.
Realizing that I was debating a wordsmith whose competence is way out of my league, I have decided to "back off". Hey, thats Yosemite Sam's line ain't it?

When the kids are in bed, and the wife is away, I like to sit under my citrus trees and smoke a big joint, dreaming about how good those citrus are going to taste. If I could only find my lighter.

Ok Scott thats enough. Your off topic now, take it to the Cannabis Forum ;)

Sheesh, isn't Cannais against the law??? Toni

Scott. LOLOLOLOL

Toni ..This is post No#72 I think this is a record!!!!

Dale, not it's post #73..LOL..
BTW, I posted on the fig forum..thanks for informing me...Toni

#74 will have a look.. Good forum for asking an learning I like it sure you will to

I was once went up to 99. After that. No more take. Slaltz! Zero.

Oh, what the heck let's make post #75.lol

Foxy.

The ironic thing about this thread is, my friend and her husband decided not to move to Fl..LOL. They're going to stay here another winter and make a decision next year.

Toni- So your email is filling up with all this holier then thou crap for nothing! lol

Foxy.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I love to point out that right after that Jesus also said, "Now go and sin no more"

The problem is that how do you know your citrus is clean? I dare say most people moving some trees or cuttings from a back yard do not have them tested and held in quarintine until the results are back.

I am confidant that my trees are clean to, but there are things I can not see that could be there and show up later.

I love my trees, and I have no doubt that you all do too or you wouldn't bother. I stand by my request and repeat it with a kind and understanding heart. PLEASE do not carry citrus from place to place. Invest a few dollars on certified, tested stock when you get there.

Arthur the Date Palm Guy

Authur, I learned something today. I have heard, of course, and said the phrase "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", many times. Now I will always remember what Jesus said following that phrase. MANY PROBLEMS in the citrus industry, some very devastating, have been brought about because "clean" trees have been "sneaked" into agricultural areas in violation of the law. Arthur, your certainly 100 prcent correct. - Millet

Arthur - I have my trees professionally screened through a company called Agdia. I've also submitted tissue samples to my state dept. of agriculture for testing through Texas ATM University. When I say my trees are "clean", I'm not whistling Dixie. --

Some more irony within this thread is that, while most of us have probably never been faced with having to make a choice (of transporting our collection), I seem to be the only one who is being open about what he would do. I do not believe for a minute that most every participant in this thread WOULD take his collection to Florida, or anywhere else, if he knew he could get away with it. And the bullies, self-professed know-it-alls and self-righteous (no offense Millet & Laaz) folks who claim otherwise are not being very honest with those who read this forum. This "keyboard courage" has come up before and I think it has reared its ugly head again. Except this time, I think it's "Keyboard Values".

Let me rephrase: I believe that, if forced to make a choice, most people in this forum (and especially the ones like Millet, who are so quick to jump on their moral high horses) WOULD transport their citrus collection to Florida.

That being said, there's no point in arguing it (since most will deny it anyway). I sincerely hope that I never have to move to Florida. I prefer to just vacation there.

EGO/Wordsmith, Again you are 110% wrong. You are flat wrong. I would not and I believe Laaz would not "sneak" our trees into Florida or any other commerical citrus state. How about answering Scott's question concerning.... "... your opinion on what citrus growing states SHOULD be doing to fight the spread of canker, greening and tresteza(sp)." Your sarcasm and anger towards me is because your still upset about your asking me for help to control your on going problem with your trees pH, and my decline to help you. Lastly, sorry, but it is extremely hard to believe your claim that - "I have my trees professionally screened through a company called Agdia. I've also submitted tissue samples to my state dept. of agriculture for testing through Texas ATM University." Color me very, very skeptable. However wordsmith, take care and have a nice weekend. - Millet

Millet -
I will repeat what I've told many people about my opinion on Florida's problems: I think they should let nature run its course, unless someone comes up with some magical cure, which doesn't appear to be happening. (Unless you count the one that some gentleman posted here a few months back.. Except his was merely snake oil, as MalcomManners pointed out to him.)

As Florida officials have proven time and again, their methods to rid the state of canker don't work (perhaps it's geographical). All they do is violate people's constitutional rights (the one about unlawful search & seizure, in addition to the one about privacy) and find themselves in court. At one point, the PEOPLE won a court battle against the state on these very principals. But the state, with the use of the people's tax dollars, appealed and won. I've mentioned it in the GW forum several times before, but I've always believed that people's trees should be screened/tested before they are destroyed, opposed to the arbitrary fashion in which officials go about removal.

You, yourself recently admitted that you would "never" buy citrus from Florida again. Having said that, you must have some understanding of the multitude of problems that growers are having there. If you've followed their history, like I have (it has been part of my job as a purveyor of plants, some of which come from Florida -- made available to me via my ANLA and TNLA memberships, in addition to several other reliable sources, including the Texas Citrus Center, Kingsville) you know that Florida has been burning cankerous trees for years -- acres at a time -- and removing CTV-infected trees in the same fashion.
Guess what? It hasn't done ANY good.

So, all of that said, I believe Florida is spitting in the wind with all their regulations. Most of their problems have come from the very people whose livelihoods depend on their citrus crops. I personally know one commercial grower in Florida who, about four years ago, thought that he discovered trees within his groves that were infected with CTV. You know what he did? He removed and destroyed the trees immediately, without notifying the state. On one hand, I can't blame the guy. On the other hand, how many more trees were infected (at the time) that he may not have been aware of? You get my drift? This is a losing battle. Nature is much stronger than some elected officials and a few platoons of $30K per year "cops". So, chalk me up as another Clayton Williams when it comes to Florida's citrus problems.

By the way, "your" is possessive, whereas "you're" is a contraction of "you are".

EGO/Wordsmith, thank you for your response on how you would handle Florida's citrus problems. I also greatly appreciate the free english lesson. I certainly do not agree with your corrective method, if indeed we can call, "they should let nature run its course" any kind of a reasonable method. I do not believe that the constitution says anything about "unlawful search & seizure" of outdoor citrus trees. However, again thank you. To tell you the truth so far Florida's method does not seem to have corrected the situation as yet, but doing nothing would be a disaster. Take care of Texas. - Millet

Sorry, but I would never consider transporting citrus to FL. I agree that the Canker control has not worked & probably will never work, but I would not add fuel to the fire. Ego with your mentality & reasoning it's only a matter of time before people like you introduce Canker to TX. Lets see how you feel when this happens...

The constitution refers to unlawful search of one's private property. This would include citrus trees, if they were privately owned and the subject of the search and seizure. Don't show your ignorance by being specific on the constitution (because it doesn't mention a lot of specifics).

I've already seen canker in Texas. And I'm also aware of CTV. In fact, both are on the books as having been discovered here. And, guess what, I'm not losing any sleep over it. My trees are clean and our industry (which is quite small compared to FL) is relatively safe.

Ya'll keep on trying. And smoke one for me. LOL

Youse got it wrong. Its actually a contraction of "you" and "all". Its y'all. Not Ya'll. YA got it?

If I had to move to Florida. I would sell my trees here at a primo price, and buy cheap ones in Florida. You have a dim view of the folks here, don'tcha (do you not)? I think most people here would not bring it into the state if they knew it was illegal.

As far as passing you my cyber-doobie.....youse dreaming!

"Now Go and Sin No More." I'm sure Jesus was refering to transporting citrus to and from different states..Right!
And where is it written that 'man-made' law is a sin?
I'm no Theologian, but I highly doubt transporting trees is written 'in the Bible,' and surly not part of the 'Ten Commandments.' Maybe the New Testament has added an 11th. Though shalt not transport trees to Florida..LOL
Give unto Rome (Kings) things are are Roman (man-made materialistic items).........Toni

First, You don't need specifics laid out to know if something is right or wrong.
When my son goes out to play baseball with his friends and I say "Don't get into trouble". He knows what is right or wrong.
I don't give him a 45 mile list of do and dont' and then hope I didn't miss something.
So, to sum it up, "go and sin no more" doesn't need specifics.
Criminals don't hang out around police stations! Why?
because they know thier actions are wrong and thier conscience convicts them. (Con=with, science=knowledge). They do it "with knowledge" that it's wrong.
Moral law is written on the hearts of every human being, and those whose hearts are heardened are a cop's worst nightmare.
It's called a psychopath. They have no conscience or guilt.
This moral relativism today has gotten way out of control.

Tom

Well, at least this thread is almost at the 100 post mark, then y'all have to find another thread to fight on.

Foxy.

Tom, it's common sense when you tell your child not to get in trouble..for instance, (depending on the child's age) kids know, intentionally throwing a baseball through someone's window is wrong. Common Sense.
But we're talking adults, half of whom believe a deed wrong, the other half considering it right.
So, who's to say the doing is right or wrong?

That's one problem with this forum..If 100% of the posters don't agree, instead of discussing the topic as adults, people act child-like, start name-calling, and ganged up by a selected group.
I'm not talking about whether or not it's right or wrong to bring citrus to Fl..this applies to any subject.

LOL, Foxy..You ARE correct. All it takes is one person to comment about something certain people don't believe, or a disagreement.
Like I said above, my friend and her dh are not moving to Fl..they've decided this since the canes struck, and a few other reasons. Next spring they'll decide on a place to live. But it won't be Fl..Toni

Tony, do the people on this forum ever agree?...Laura

Hemi, haven't seen you for a while.. How are things going?
There are three groups here on Citrus..I'll skip the first two for now, but the third are new people who come here seeking help. They are the Innocents..
Let's call the first, Group A, who are understanding people trying to help the Innocents, and/or comment when a question is posed. Group B, stick together, whether their leader is right or wrong. The innocents are Group C, who as time goes by, either shifts to Group A or B.

I honestly think agreeing or disagreeing depends on whether or not the leader of Group B had 1. too many drinks, or 2. too many puffs, which by the way is 'illigal'. Toni

I want to be the last one to make it to 99 although I have nothing to say.

You forgot Group C..The Group that would like to rid people off the fourm. The Group that cant be told or even suggusted to. The Group that puts down our must helpful members. The Group that cant take the heat because of some ridiculous answer for a simple problem

The Group that demands respect. I hope I made the point the real only Group is all of us. We are the Group we are all here to learn an teach. And we must all learn to take the falls an the rises..Why must eveything be taken so personal. WHY For GODS sake this is a garden fourm

Not a T.V Game show nor is it a Rush Limbaugh Radio station for crying out loud

DAle, no, Group C are the newbies looking for help.
Those you mention would be Group D.

I feel like Dian Fossy when she catogorized the Gorillas.

I agree with you..there should be one group..those who like plants and enjoy discussing them. Those who do not criticize when someone disagrees, but takes it in stride..
It'd be a pleasant group to visit when we got online.

BTW, are you talking about me when you mentioned group c?
Toni

NOw is your chance Benny! Wouldn't everyone agree?

BUMP

ew speaking of palmetto bugs.... i killed TEN in less than an hour throwin darts in the garage last night (still 105 degrees in the garage then..talk about sweat). i'm thinkin of growing a coconut tree..or a pineapple plant thing.

I do not believe most people on this forum realize the seriousness of greening disease. Personally, I have been growing citrus for many years and thoroughly enjoy them. Greening is a very serious problem. You have no way to check see if your tree is infected until it is too late. I understand the USDA is considering not permitting any fruit to leave florida. If this is true they will probably stop trees from leaving the state. Personally I would not think of bringing a plant from Florida to the state of Texas. Disease free trees can be ordered from California where there is no citrus canker or greening disease. In Texas we cannot legally bring trees or budwood into the state. Budwood has to go throught the budwood program at Weslaco There are a lot of people in South Texas that depend on citrus for their livelyhood. The inscect that transmits the greening disease will probably find his way to Texas without anyone transporting him here in time as he does not acknowldge state boundries.
This fall a group from the Texas A&M extension service will be coming to SE Texas checking to see if the asian Psyllid has made it this far.