It was "Trick or Treat" in my neighborhood TM. Never heard of a window knocker. A week later we used to have a lot of fun on Guy Fawkes night or Bonfire Night as we used to call it.
There was an empty field, just down from where I lived, all the kids in the neighborhood went around gathering wood and unfortunately anything else that would burn, we use to build the biggest of bonfires, lit after supper we'd all be down there. Hot dogs, bowls of buttered popcorn and plates of home made fudge use to mysteriously appear, I'm sure our parents had something to do with that bit.
Of course as young kids we didn't really know or understand what Guy Fawkes night meant at the time, it was just another fun night we looked forward to. One of the neighbors who lived close by use to stay up all night, keep an eye on the fire making sure it burned down safely.

Annette

Here is a link that might be useful: Bonfire Night

It's always been "Trick or Treat!" here in NE IL.Although, the trick part of that really doesn't apply. Maybe I'll ask a few kids to do some tricks on Wed. I can't imagine that going over well.

Interesting! I never heard of "help the poor" before.

I grew up in Massachusetts. It was/is "Trick or Treat" here.

Our neighbor across the street used to "steal" our jack-o-lanterns every year, and then would add insult to injury by displaying them on his front steps! My sister and I would devise a complicated strategy to recapture them under cover of darkness and return them back to our own property, and if we could capture a few of HIS pumpkins, so much the better. One year he rigged up lights and an alarm that came on when we grabbed the pumpkins. Scared the heck out of us. We looked forward to this "battle" every year far more than the candy.

Patti

That was in today's Agnes comic strip! (I identify with her anti-math ways.) Anyway, I was wondering about "beggar's night," I'd never heard that before. It's "trick-or-treat" here, usually. Although I do see the occasional kid who just sticks a sack/container out and acts totally bored by it all, which is weird. But I'll never forget the tiny little girl who showed up very late a few years back and was very vocal about her disdain for the candy I had left. She was most certainly not begging! ; )

I do have lots of eggs now, I suppose I could give those out. What harm could it do?

Hi all --

I've never heard of "Help the poor". When I was a kid (central NY) we said "trick or treat", and we ALWAYS said "thank you". Now the kids stick out a huge sack and usually don't say a word. I don't like that so frequently comment. Those that say "trick or treat", and especially those that say "thank you", always get more (of their favorites) from me. :)

There were a lot more trouble-makers when I was a kid... toilet paper, shaving cream, and broken eggs all over everything. Plus smashed pumpkins, of course, and sometimes waxed windows. Supposedly the kids should only have done that to a house if they were NOT given a treat -- but they did it for "fun".

My older brother put a twist on it and he would occasionally pull the 'trick' on the kids at the door by tossing a raw egg in their bag, hard enough to try to break the egg all over their candy! (yeah, my brother could be rotten).

My gripe: the adults who bring their 3 month old baby and 3 sacks to collect candy in. cripes.

pattioh: that pumpkin-stealing challenge sounds like fun!!!

Thinman, were there a lot of Dutch people where you grew up? This sounds a lot like Saint Martin's Day in Holland, celebrated on November 11th.. I'll bet this tradition is particularly local to you because Dutch immigrants melded their tradition with American Halloween. I was fortunate enough to be in the north of Holland two years ago, having dinner at a friend's home. All night long, the doorbell would ring. Just like trick-or-treat, the kids would be in costume. But they would sing little songs with the word "bedelen" in it, or "beg" in English.

I bet that's it. Below is a link.

Steven

Here is a link that might be useful: Sint Maarten Dag

Please tell me more about the window knocker, TM. Never heard of that before. What was it used for?

Oh Patti! That is hysterical!!!! I can just picture you guys giggling and sneaking across the yard.

I didn't celebrate Halloween until we moved to the states. In Germany I don't think we had it.

Edna

It's 'Trick or Treat' in my area. However, having always lived in the country, I seldom participated as a child. I never buy candy anymore. We just end up eating it since we don't ever have any children show up.

Steven, thanks for posting the bit on 'Sint Marten Dag' I love reading about different customs and how they came about, some are endearing, alas, some are not.

Annette

Annette - Bonfire night sounds like it would be lots of fun. It was interesting to read about Guy Fawkes night and the history behind it -- burning the pope in effigy, goodness gracious.

Patti - The back and forth pumpkin stealing sounds like a hoot. I think I would have liked living on your block.

Steven - I'm not aware of any big contingent of Dutch immigrants back in the neighborhood, but they could easily have been close enough to start the custom. I know that there a lot of Dutch names in Grand Rapids, Michigan to this day, and that's only about 100 miles west of Detroit. You may be on to something there. Cool.

Edna - The window knocker was made as I said, and then it was held against the outside of someone's window. When the string was pulled, the notches in the spool were supposed to make the window rattle in a scary and startling way. I don't know that they ever worked very well, but they were very daring things for us to make -- especially because rumor had it that they could occasionally actually break a window. Because of that, I don't think that I ever really used one on a neighbor's house, not being what you would call a fearless little boy. :-)

ThinMan

TM: My mother tells a story somewhat similar to yours. In fact, when I was growing up they still had beggar's night in the city which was traditionally the day before Halloween.

Tracy

Ha! TM we always said "Trick or Treat" too. I just said begging in the other post because I always thought that it was weird to make it acceptable to ask for candy one night a year and to call it rude any other time. It just seemed like acceptable begging to me. My daughter is 15, in high school this year and she is furious with me because I won't allow her to go T/T with her friends this year...some of them are two years older than she is. Unreal!

I'm loving hearing how you all celebrated in different parts of the country etc.

MeMo

Wow, T'man, You're bringing back memories.
Well first, the dear sisters at St. Sebastians Grade School would not let anyone go out after 7th grade. And somehow...they knew!!!
We always traveled in large packs. And we yelled "BEGGARS NIIIIIGHT".

Haven't thought of that in years...good trip down memory lane.
Is there anything that smells better than a bag of loot with all the candies in it. I'm really wishing for a Reeses peanut butter cup about now.
DH caved and got his candy corn already.

georgeanne

We also used 'trick or treat', but I ran across the post below that references what your are talking about.

Here is a link that might be useful: Help the Poor

I got curious and also found the following explanation...

The medieval Catholic focus on the dead at the time of All Hallows Eve is at the root of Halloween as we know it.. By the fourteenth century a custom called 'souling' had developed in England in which the poor would go from house to house asking for soul-cakes. The better-off would give out small cakes or loaves in exchange for prayers for their dead relatives. Souling continued up until the twentieth century in some parts of Britain, though the ritual became increasingly secularised and was eventually relegated to children. Souling almost certainly forms the basis for American 'Trick or Treating'. Shakespeare uses the phrase 'to speak pulling like a beggar at Hallowmass'. I'll note that both of my parents, who grew up in Detroit, Michigan in the 40s and 50s, refer to the practice of trick-or-treating as 'begging' and to trick-or- treaters as 'beggars'. The phrase they used to ask for treats as children was 'Help the poor!'

Hey Wig-,
Thanks for the explanation about souling. Now I know what Peter, Paul and Mary were singing about!

A soul, a soul, a soul-cake
Please good missus a soul-cake
An apple, a pear, a plum, a cherry
Any good thing to make us all merry
One for Peter, two for Paul,
Three for him who made us all.

That's as best I can remember, anyway. I've played it a many times, usually around Christmas.

Wig - I had forgotten about the "pants are tore..." part. Thanks for the reminder. I'm glad your parents remember it the same way.

Ah, the memories, Georgeanne. Fun, huh?

ThinMan