breed some cold hardy citrus varieties the winter outside withwithout having any rootstock

I'm thinking about trying to developing some citrus that can handle zone 6b

The winters without pornicus trifolita Genes

HOWARD Martin , you should start your own thread.

I'm trying to develop citrus fruits that can handle zone 6 winters outside without trifolitta genes

Howard. There are citrus varieties that have fresh growth that will survive temperatures below 20F. If you can locate these and work with them to push low you may fins success. It is Better to have the trees come out and flower early than try to push fruit late into fall. My zone 6 requires ripening to satart in september.

Steve

But they have pornicus trifolitta genes

Wrong it's better for me to have the fruits as well

For that is the reason for growing them in the first place

We are all growing it for the fruits. My Meiwa kumquat had some real fresh new growth that did well down to 25F. Marumi Kumquat will drop down to 10F with no damage and can go as low as 0F Marumi kumquat is some times used as rootstock so you have a plant that can be tested on its own roots. 10 degree 2-2 has no PT in it and ripens in September to clear our early frost date. Work with it to find the lucky seedling that make it down to 0F.

I don't want kumquats but lemons orange and grapefruit

This shows what cold hardy citruses free of trifoliata

This will, get you something to work with without PT

But I can't find those varieties here Ashland Kentucky

And kumquats I don't want

I heard you about kumquat. I myself am a kumquat man. The ten degree tangerine 2-2 you can get from cold hardy citrus trees You can call and talk to Stan to get ideas from which to work from. I too am in zone 6 so I have an interest in your research. I am curious. Why don't you like kumquats. I like them because the fruit grows faster to clear fall frosts. I don't have to peal them. The peal contains nutrition other citrus lacks. They taste good. Their fresh new green growth can take hard freezes. and last I can buy any other citrus for under a dollar a pound and kumquats if available are $7+ a pound.

Steve

Never had them and heerhere in Ashland Kentucky I can't find them

http://mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm

I'm starting with ordinary lemons for that all I have available to me here

Howard Martin, you really should do at least some basic rudimentary research into something before you try doing something. (Maybe you don't know how to do basic internet research?)

Here, check this out on eBay, it's a hybrid between Meyer lemon and Poncirus trifoliata.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-HARDY-LEMON-PRODUCES-HUGE-FRUIT-1-2-TREES-LIVE-PLANTS-CITREMON-CITRUS-/233124991817

If you're trying to breed a hardy lemon, you might start there.

I'm not going to waste further effort in this thread explaining anything to you.

Especially since there are plenty of other threads on hardy citrus in this very forum.

Here's another thread: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5858484/a-little-introduction-to-hardy-citrus#n=3

Since I'm poor man and I have choice

I'm poor man and I did thethe research and I'm still going to it from what I have available of all types of citrus

And I don't want pornicus trifolitta genes

Too bad for you, Howard Martin.

The only other citrus species that can survive real cold is Citrus ichangensis, and it can only survive zone 8, maybe the border of zone 8 and 7b in the right circumstances, somewhere in the South with long warm summers.

When you're talking about hybridizing something to survive zone 7 and below, you're pretty much going to have to use poncirus trifoliata. It's been a big challenge of hybridizes to try to keep the cold hardiness genes while breeding out the bad taste genes, will likely take several generations, possibly a lifetime.

Or you could start with hybrids that already exist.

To make matters more complicated, certain types of edible citrus varieties have a high percentage of nucellar seed, meaning most of the seeds will just be clones of the parent. This can make hybridizing a new variety more difficult. This subject has been extensively discussed in other places, and I am not going to do it here.

You don't it get I'm not settling pornicus trifolitta genes no rhybrids because I don't have access to them

So I can only push what I have access to

Howard The best chance of success will be with tangerines, satsumas, or clementines. Buy, enjoy the fruit and plant the seeds. Growing citrus is expensive this far north of the Mandarin Dekopon line. It would be cheaper to Buy a 10 degree tangerine from mckenzie farms and keep planting seeds from its fruits to get a -10F citrus tree

Steve

http://www.mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm

I have no access to that farm so I can only push what I have access and that is supersupermarket citrus

That farm is mostly mail order. get price use credit card or personal or cashiers check and They mail it to your address..That is one good chance for finding something

Have no credit cards and I'm not going mail order

I hate mail ordering myself. Your best chance is with clementines and Meyer lemons. Start buying and eating citrus fruits.

I'm starting with regular lemon going to grapefruits and full sized oranges

Howard I am very curious as to why you want to grow citrus fruit trees outside in Ashland Kentucky. You could be growing pears, peaches, sour cherries, Red haven is the disease resistant variety that grows true from seed and produces in 3 years. That is free. Blue berries grow from seed. All of these are more expensive than citrus at the grocer. I grow kumquat (Meiwa, Fukushu) and sweet lemons and valentine pomelo because they are unavailable or over $7.00 a pound. I operate on a show string budget and if I had known how much citrus cost to grow here I would have never started. All my trees were free as gifts so I take good care of them and they are a fun hobby and now provide fruit that also makes them worth it.

Steve

Cherries pares and peaches are too easily grown here citrus trees highth makes me want to grow them out side because my room inside is incredibly small

Sweet lemons and limes are considerably more cold hardy than regular lemons and limes. Those can occasionally be found at a common grocery store. You could start there and end up with someting that is rarely buyable.

Steve

I am in NYC zone 7B, all my Citrus trees are outside since I believe sometime March, including a Jaboticaba - Aussie beach cherry - and a barbados cherry and none to happy ( I learned the hard way on bug infestations for next year). I'm waiting for the heat to turn up. Lots of buds on some swelling even tiny hints at growth but they know not to grow yet...... However, I planted an in ground Trifoliate and even protected it (pulled frostcloth in March and it appears to be dead as a doornail (may come back from roots no rush to pull). I don't know what zone howard martin is in but good luck using random seedlings from store bought fruits......

Howard Martin, if you think you're going to find a magical citrus seed that will be able to grow outside and survive through the winter in NYC, you're deluding yourself.

Although I have heard of a grapefruit tree managing to grow big and survive planted outside up against a warm apartment building in London, which is effectively in climate zone 8b. It did fruit one year. That is a rare exception, and is still a far cry from NYC's zone 7b climate.

The white grapefruit variety, Duncan, which also contains a fair number of seeds, is hardier than other grapefruit varieties and regular oranges. (It can be commercially grown as far north as central Florida, with a few isolated reports of trees occasionally thriving in South Carolina)

Limes, regular lemons (with the notable exception of Meyer), and oranges are the least hardy of the citrus varieties found in the supermarket. Grapefruits and mandarins are a little bit more hardy, in general, especially Satsuma mandarin, and kumquats do even better, sometimes doing well all the way down to 8b.

I'm going to try anyway

Howard Martin and I are both in zone 6B and live 100 miles apart by road. He and I both live in river town with Howard living 100 miles upstream on the Ohio River.

Steve

Howard Can you setup your Houzz account to allow others to private message each other. I have a lot to gain with your success and would like to discus this separately

Steve

I don't know how to a few I'm about move Washington D.C That's zone 7 for high profile job

A high profile city should have high profile citrus fruit at grocery store. I will miss have you 120 mile up the river from me.

Steve

Well, when you're President of the US, maybe you can allocate a good bit of research $$ to the Dept of Agriculture to do some more hardy citrus breeding.

It will be with the United nations job will be getting

Iwill not settle for

Substitutes Subst itutes

I got regular lemon growing in floweflowerpot of clay

I got only lemons form the supermarket to work right now

I have only supermarket lemon to work with

I think I might be beginning to change my soil

 I'm going to  be moving to to Pikeville Kentucky right on the boarder   6b and 7a