The first cross I made (1987) was with wild fulva that I had dug along a country road on an unknown dip that I bought at the farmers market. Many older varieties have fulva genes, Stouts book on daylilies lists a lot of them. I still have the three or for seedlings I grew from that cross and every once in a while I try again and I have a fertile copy of fulva that is the same color and shape but a bit smaller----but it spreads like it's poppa and has formed a pretty large clump. I think these are dips and I've sort of lost interest in them, I suppose because it's so difficult to make all those crosses for so few seeds. There are a few people who apparently have used tets on fulva and one Ed Murray on fulva that is supposed to cross with either tets or dips. I've sort of tryed other stuff as I thought I would like some early reds or early eyed daylilies. And I have a clump of Ed Murray that I crossed with Saxton's Orchid Corsage. I am hoping these will bloom this summer, but they are still single seedling fans so I may have to wait another year. I have about twenty seeds from Saratoga Pinwheel X Ed Murray that have been very difficult to germinate; I think these should be tets if I ever get the blasted things to grow. They have been in the refridgerater for five weeks and I'm trying to make up my mind when to get them out and where to put them. The first five seeds of this cross died except one that germinated and then died. Why do I keep this up????-----Weedy