The Edge of Darkness you have is a tissue cultured clone. This means it lost its original flower characteristics because it is not a root division of the true parent plant.

The first thing you have to know when buying daylilies is to buy from nurseries which sell only root divisions fom field grown plants.

You bought yours from Shelmerdine in Winnipeg. They don't sell field grown plants.

I don't know if Gary Carlson has any left, but he publishes the Canadian Daylily Availability Guide each year, and sells it for $10.

Gary has listed close to 300 daylilies that are suspected to be tissue culture clones in the 2005 guide. Among them are Edge of Darkness, and a lot of others sold at Winnipeg nurseries.

Once you get beyond that, you can then check out the thousands of field grown daylilies offered in Canada by reputable daylily nurseries, that are listed in the guide.

Send Gary an email at gcarlson@interhop.net.

-- Susie in Winnipeg

Very interesting thread. I've also bought a couple daylilies in the past few years that haven't been true to name and now I know why. I was just wondering if there are other plants that are propagated by tissue culture that we have to watch out for?

Laurie

Very interesting reading. Strachan, are you saying that the plant northspruce ended up with was likely propagated using tissue culture from a Edge of Darkness daylily but for whatever reason it didn't work so the plant reverted to a different colour?

I am not questioning the accuracy of your story, just find this topic very interesting, as we hear more and more about plants being propagated by tissue culture and I always thought it was a sure thing. When I read the original posting I just thought it was a plant tag mixup.

Just by reading these forums over the past year, it seems the nursery industry is really becoming a "buyer beware" type of place. Between name tags accidentally getting mixed up by customers, confusion regarding the correct botanical names and cultivars, and I even read stories about certain cultivars of trees or shrubs being passed off as another.

Regards,
Glen

Can someone explain what tissue culture means? Thanks!

Too lazy to explain tissue culture - check out the link, it's a good explanation.

I really thought I got a mis-labeled plant but I had no idea there was this problem about daylily tissue culture.

Thanks for the info!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Tissue Culture

Tissue culture is not a sure thing. TC is also a popular way to propogate Hostas. A lot of those new Hosta cultivars are 'freaks' from the tissue cultured parent plant. With Hosta's, the ethical propogators grow them out for two years or so to make sure they are the 'real thing'. With Daylilies the 'grow-out' time would have to be greater because it would need to reach the maturity to bloom.
This is an interesting link related specifically to daylilies and TC.

Here is a link that might be useful: TC & daylilies

Hi all
This daylily issue makes me wonder about one of my daylilies! We bought it for my mothers yard about 6-7 years ago and I think it bloomed once. We made some changes to her yard and I moved it to my yard. Since then it has never bloomed. It seems to be a very vigorous plant and is getting bigger (about a foot to 18 inches across now) and I thought that it was not blooming was because of the very dry years we have experienced lately. This year all my other daylilies are setting buds and are doing well because last year and this so far we have been getting more rain. Now could the reason it is not blooming is because of cloning? It seems a fair to assume that this could be the reason or could it be something else?

Cheers Al (who is looking for the shovel)

A1 I have the same question. I had a stella daylily for 4 years, and it barely bloomed. It was in full sun and it did form a nice mound. It bloomed a bit in, say, the end of June but nothing really after that. In the end I dug it out.

Now, last spring, I bought a daylily called "Blueberry sundae". It didn't bloom last year, but I figured it was new, establishing itself, etc. This year it doesn't seem to want to bloom either, at least no signs yet.

Are daylilies something like peonies? That is, if you plant a peony at the incorrect depth it won't bloom? Or, maybe it's my clay soil? I don't fertilize, in fact I am bad for not fertilizing anything very much, but maybe the soil is too rich and it's just putting out green growth?

At any rate, my Mom had daylilies out in the country which grew like crazy, she had to keep dividing them. I am puzzled as I've always understood this to be a very carefree plant.

Thanks,
Glen

Glen I don't know if the lack of fertilizer is the problem as I try to fertilize my daylilies regularly. I also have heavy clay soil which I have amended with well rotted cow manure.

I don't know if planting them at a certain depth is the answer either as I have one that was planted at ground level but is now somewhat deeper as I have added a bit of top dressing to the bed every year. This is at the bottom of a slope and the soil seem to wash a bit to the bottom where the daylily is and at this writing it has buds on it.

I posted a question here awhile ago about daylilies that won't bloom and was told that they have to be planted at a certain depth and not to fertilize. I am trying the no fertilizer route this year and I may dig them up next spring and try replanting them if nothing happens this year. If that doesn't work they will be tossed.

Cheers Al

Wow! This is a really educational thread. I am going to pay more attention to what and where I buy daylilies from now on! Now I know why some of mine have never bloomed (perhaps). I'm going to be asking more questions at garden centres. I am really disappointed about Shermerdines in Winnipeg. They are an old, well-respected nursery (I thought).

On the subject of non-blooming daylilies (of which I have a few), keep in mind that different varieties have different bloom times. The most reliable bloomers for our climate are the early and midseason ones. Any daylily that blooms later than that might not have a long enough growing season to set buds.

Having said that, my infamous non-bloomers are listed as midseason or early-midseason daylilies, while another very reliable one that always blooms (Frans Halls) is listed as mid-late season.

Glen, I looked up Blueberry Sundae. It's listed as early-midseason, but it's a semi-evergreen variety. I wonder if that makes a difference? Does it seem to take longer to get going in the spring than your other plants?

I've heard that water quantity early in the spring is the critical factor. With the amount of rain we've had this year on the prairies my Stella d'Oros and Pennysworth are blooming satisfactorily for the first time in a couple of years. If my usual non-performers don't respond, then I'll have to dig them up. I have too many potted plants vying for a space in the garden! ;-)

A very interesting read. Wow at least I'm not the only one; I too have a daylily (Hemerocallis x "purple Waters") that wont bloom either. The daylily flowered the first year but never flowered again. My problem might be the location. That darn tree seems to take up all the sun. I think I'll try moving it this year and maybe I'll divide it too. So I'll have two plants that wont bloom (lol). Wish me luck!
I don't want to give up on this plant because the flower looked amazing.

Maybe we should start a club Daylily Woes or something?

This is a very interesting thread. I have a daylily 'Blue Sheen' that has performed very poorly.I had purchased it as a bare root and I had assumed the clump needed to mature before I could expect decent blooming. But now it's been several years and I think it is just a dud. This year I had exactly 3 flowers. Now I'm being tempted by the daylilies at a local nursery.(Not really local as they just set up for the season in an empty lot in town) I have no idea where they get them from, but they are almost in bloom. Do you think it would be a good risk, if the flower looks accurate to the picture? They are quite expensive, but I guess that doesn't mean much. Of course the label doesn't say what type (dormant or evergreen). I probably should resist the temptation.

I really don't know how "safe" it is to buy daylilies and from where. I have one that came with the house, two that I bought at the Assiniboine Conservatory spring plant sale a few years ago, and now Edge of Brightness. The two I bought at the plant sale are fabulous (one is Strawberry Candy, can't remember the other), bloom like crazy, are true to form and weren't expensive.

Either these are old, readily available cultivars that reproduce rapidly (I think Strawberry Candy is very popular) or they take well to tissue culture. Anyway they seem to be spreading in my garden and blooming well.

I like this thread. It has given me a good reason to get out my shovel and rid the gardens of my poor performing daylilies. Keep only the good bloomers. Rest are gonna go!
Jan

I'm giving my non-bloomers one more year and then...out.

Hi all. Thanks again, northspruce, for this helpful thread. More essential information for someone who is just getting into daylilies and also has a passion for hostas! It is not worth it to me to invest $, time and energy in cloned plants. Any ideas on where to look for the "real thing" are very welcome. I suppose asking at the nurseries is a good idea, but many of those staff don't know whether they are lying or not. I don't want to trust the word of a seasonal worker just to find out several weeks later, after digging, and watering and hoping and watching, that I have been "had" again. What an education! - Pearl

Well the temptation was too great. It was 50% off and the plant was in bloom and looking very much like the picture on the tag. I bought Canadian Border Patrol. Hopefully it will bloom again next year. But this year doesn't seem like a good one for daylilies. Some that were blooming profusely last year are doing nothing this year. Even my early yellow had few scapes. I don't know why.

Oh I have seen Cdn Border Patrol, it's a nice one! Hope it does well for you. If you can see it blooming that's half the battle I guess...

As far as tissue culture being a potential problem for other herbaceous and woody plants, there is a definite possibility. I suspect there would arise more problem offspring from species that tend to naturally mutate more often, like hosta. But the potential is always there, regardless.

Even non-TC assexual propagation can have its flaws. In fact a specific name is given to such atypical clones by the International Botanical Congress on nomenclature of plants:
A cultivariant (not cultivar) is an assexually propagated plant that does not show the true characteristics of the mother plant. I have only heard this applied to woody plants where an atypical clone arises from propagation from inappropriately selected cuttings from the mother plant. Whether this includes tissue culture plants or those only assexually propagated by convential means I do not know.

There are serious collectors that go to great lengths to seek out non-tissue culture stock. Indeed it can be a problem, and that problem will only become greater in the future.

Rick

Good info Rick. A cultivariant plant must be like Sansevieria trifasciata (rattlesnake plant, mother-in-law's tongue), which loses its leaf variagation if a cutting is taken, but does not if it grows new rhizomes. Interesting.

Fortuitously Northspruce, I was just reading a thread in the Conifer forum where a learned man happened in passing to explained in more detail what makes a cultivariant. And this fits with everything I have known so far about it. It seems the only uncharacteristic characteristics that makes a cultivariant is growth pattern or rate. For instance, a dwarf that grows faster and/or more open than its assexual parent.

Chimeras, like the yellow edged Sanseveria (Snake plant-not rattlesnake), that are propagated wrong and lose their variegation don't fall into this category.

I think I am going to start a thread in the Botany forum and get the complete definition. It's not in the GW glossary. Jump over and take a look in a few days to get the whole story.
Rick

Another note on the tissue cultured daylilies: I sometimes buy them from local nurseries, to see if I can get a jump on the flower's traits in my little daylily breeding program.

For example, I have a nice Bella Lugosi, which was originally bred by Curt Hanson, but I'm pretty certain mine is a tissue cultured plant, because I didn't buy it from Curt.

But it does have a nice colour (although not as deep as Curt's original Bella's flower), it performs well in Manitoba, and has a nice flower count.

Since buying that TC Bella, I've since moved on to buying field-grown parent stock from daylily breeders, to further my hybridizing experiments in pushing the edge in Manitoba (and I do mean edge....I love shark's tooth edges).

Susie in Winnipeg