Although long out of print, The Vegetables of New York series writtin in the 1930s will be helpful. Don't let the name fool you, in most cases each of them is a compendium of northern varieties. You can find them in the used book marketplace.

Another helpful source would be the reprint of Fearing Burr's 1863 "Field and Garden Vegetables of America." Although it purports to cover the whole country, Burr was a New Englander, and there is a distinct Northeastern bias. So it's a pretty good guide to what was being grown in New England at that time.

Also, if you're not a member of SSE it would behove you to join, and to make contact, through it, with other New England based heirlooms enthusiasts, such as Will Bonsall up in Maine. Those contacts are a never-ending source of information, seeds, and references to other sources.

Heirloom Vegetable Gardening by Weaver is a pretty neat read. Regionally tho, it probably wouldnt help you. It was where I found out about fun roots like Crosnes and Skirret-

Jim,

For general heirloom reading I consider the following to be essential:

Fearing Burr , mentioned by Gardenlad, above
Vilmorin
Garden Seed Inventory, latest edition, SSE
From Seed to Seed, latest edition, SSE
How to breed your own vegetables, latest edition, by Carol Deppe
Certain websites where accurate info is given, viz Victory Seeds discussion of Livingston varieteis, for example.

Those would be the mainstays and I know of no books or whatever that concentrate specifically on the S New England region.

A cautionary note to be careful when reading backgrounds of some veggies from our area at some online sites.

Two of you have mentioned Weaver's first book, but I am not as enthusiastic , based on extensive feedback from squash and melon specialists, etc., that I know thru SSE, as to the accuracy of some of the writing. I can speak to the tomato section where my name is liberally sprinkled throughout , and there are some problems.

Weaver also is wont to resurrect extinct varieties by renaming already existing varieties. The tomato variety Shah is a case in point, so is General Grant and there are others. And yes I know Will and in the long ago past sent him quite a few varieties, some of which he has written about.

Carolyn, who will probably think of other must have sources at some later point and/or when she can get to her veggie books independent of the walker. Sigh. I will say that there have been quite a few books about heirlooms lately, but to be frank, I am not impressed with some of the knowledge shown or even believe that all that are described were, as suggested, grown by the respective authors.

Jim, where did you hear that Cabot was a tomatoe bred in Southern New England?

All documentation I have on Cabot underlines its being selected from the variety Scotia and, like Scotia, bred/developed at AgCanada's Kentville, Nova Scotia Agricultural Experiment Station.

Jennifer, who has just heard claims that the very early determinate Bradley was bred in New Brunswick (as opposed to the semi-determinate Bradley, bred at the U of Arkansas). No data to support this as yet...

if we are discussing the same tomato Cabot, and I very much suspect we are since the explorer Cabot is so important to Canadian maritime history but not US, it is not an heirloom. Scotia was introduced in 1958, Cabot some years later (still tracking this data).

Jennifer

Thanks, folks.

GardenLad and Carolyn,
Fearing Burr's book has been ordered. An SSE membership will be next, as well as some of the other books you mentioned. I recently aquired and read Carol Deppe's book on the advice of someone here (GardenLad or Fusion?). It meets my need perfectly in the area of plant genetics and breeding. It will take a few more readings before I get a good grasp on all of it. My son, who is uncanny in knowing my likes, gave me A.W. Livingston's book as a Christmas gift. I had some reservations about the Weaver book because it appeared to be quite heavily based on research of the literature and I prefer original sources. Thanks for your frank comment on it, Carolyn.

Jennifer,
The name Cabot caught my eye in a seed list because of the Boston brahmin Cabots, not the explorer. There may be a connection between the two, but I don't know yet.

"Here's to good old Boston, the land of the bean and the cod,
Where the Lowells speak only to Cabots, and the Cabots speak only to God."

Then I found the following on the Tomato Passion site:

Cabot - Fruit rond rouge brillant de 90 grammes. Chair rouge. Saveur excellente. Une excellente variété les saisons courtes nordiques. 68 à 80 jours. Croissance déterminée. Variété développée par la station expérimentale de Kentville. Variété populaire chez les jardiniers en façade maritime et et plus généralement en Nouvelle Angleterre.

As you can see, you are correct. Thanks for straightening me out. In my eagerness, I saw only the reference to New England, not the obvious statement that Cabot had been developed at Kentville, NS (slap forehead). It's interesting that you mention Bradley and Scotia as well as Cabot. I ordered both Cabot and Bradley from Sand Hill Preservation, not knowing of any connection, only that they seem to be similar types. I also was looking with interest at Scotia. Please post any interesting info you find about them.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Passion

Amazing, Carolyn, how much we agree on lately. Your list is one I could easily live with, in terms of general info. I was trying to focus on stuff more likely to serve a New Englander's interests.

I didn't mention Will's first book because I know it's controversial. But I would add, as a general reference, Ben Watson's "Taylor's Guide to Heirloom Vegetables." There are, to be sure, some major errors. But overall it's not a bad introduction to growing heirlooms.

Carol Deppe's book is great, but, surprisingly, confuses many people. I don't understand why, as I consider it the most clearly written work on the subject.

I wish John Withee had done more book writing. But, of interest, in "Growing and Cooking Beans," is his list of then commercially available varieties, and how many on that list are now missing in action.

"Garden Seed Inventory, 5th edition," was published in 1998 and is past due for revision. Hopefully, Kent is working on that. And, if so, I would hope that he includes some of the internet-only seed suppliers as well as the mail-order houses.

For those really wanting to delve deeply into the sources of vegetables, "Evolution of Crop Plants" is well worth reading. But, at $400 a pop, I'd recommend having your local library search for it on the ILL.

Jimster: "Livingston and the Tomato" is a great read that should be part of every tomato fancier's library. But you might also want to get "The Tomato in America," by Andrew Smith, who did the foreword and appendicies in the most current reprint of the Livingston tome. Add in Carolyn's book, and there really aren't any other tomato books needed.

But this is taking us into the world of veggie-specific books. There are many worthwhile titles in that group (Jean Andrews' "Peppers The Domesticated Capsicums" comes immediately to mind, as does Amy Goldman's "Melons For The Passionate Grower"). But these types are of more interest to people who are concerned with those particular veggie types.

if you are interested in heirloom tomatoes the best book out there is by CAROLYN 137. Just go to amazon,com and type in Carolyn Male under author. Its the best. Hey cmale just a friendly plug.
Mike in Chiocago

You didn't carefully read the first post in this thread, Mike. But then, who am I to talk about not reading carefully? LOL

Jim

Jim, Vesey's catalogue has good blurbs on Scotia and Cabot, their trademark toms.

GL, the new Garden Seed Inventory (6th ed.) will be out soon. Surprised you didn't get a blurb on that already, given your need to know.

Jennifer, biting tongue for fear of saying anything re WWW's 'research'

Here is a link that might be useful: GSI 6

Thanks for the tip, Jennifer.

No, I hadn't recieved any word on it until now. But that doesn't surprise me.

GL: Sorry, I should have mentioned that the CG printing is the second one. I missed ordering GSI 6 with its intro in December and now must wait. It's listed in the SSE public catalogue too, a copy of which you have no doubt.

Jennifer

I knew there were some books I forgot and the Lvingston reprinted one is one and the Tomato in America by my friend Andy Smith is another one.

I can't say that Andy's book reads like a dream but it's the absolute best book on the history of the tomato with lots of acurate documentation.

Carolyn

Gardenlad,

Do you know how much those veggies and fruit books of NY cost? LOL

I have:
Peaches
Apples ( two volumes)

////and have been thinking about getting the beans one, which actually is the hardest to find.

We're talking over $100/volume and up, depending on the condition of the specific volume available.

That's a lot of dark chocolate budget money to deal with, but since I paid same for the peaches and apples I suppose I could dig up enough cash for the beans one, etc.

Just looking at those color plates is a feast for the eyes, as well as the stomach. LOL

Carolyn

Jimster

sorry about not reading your post more carefully.

I got tomatoes on the brain.

Don't I know it, Carolyn. The fruit titles tend to be the more expensive ones, with Pears going for as much as $800. That, as you say, is a lot of chocolate!

Beans is all over the lot. I know of one copy bought for as $35 (what a steal), and several in the $40-50 range. Last one I saw on the market was $70. I was going to buy it, but couldn't get the ordering page to load. Interestingly, another source was offering it at the same time for $110. Both sources described them as VG to EX. Go figure.

And, if you really want to cry, I friend of mine paid $41 for a copy of Beans in the original wrapper.

When they do come up (especially Beans) you have to be fast, because they're in great demand.

The X of New York series also is one that libraries do not let go of on the ILL. I know, for instance, that both EKU and UK have copies of Beans, and have been told that WKU has one as well. But several ILL searches have come up empty.

Ah, well. One of these days.....

I got a copy of the 98 seed inventory for 10% off because the back cover and several pages were torn. yay!

Thanks for the heads up on Weaver- I haven cross-referenced any of it, I just know it sparked my imagination and got me interested in heirloom rootcrops, but for the life of me I cant find anyone in the US with turnip-rooted-chervil seeds! (My fiancee would have preferred me not discovered Sunchokes, as they are a windy vegetable :-)

Hi Jimster:
I see you're in Massachusetts too.
If you can spare a day to travel....you could find many very old horticulture/agriculture/gardening,etc. books at the UMass Amherst Library. The collection is large, and I've spent manyhours browsing some very old books and journals. You may not be able to take out all of those things, but taking a look at them and taking notes might be an interesting option.

The card catalog is on line.

Here is a link that might be useful: UMass library link

That's a great suggestion, GG! I will do it.

Jim