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patann_gw

Hosta, soil, compost question

18 years ago

I took delivery of 6 yards of compost (black gold?) from our county recycle center. I plan on topping off several beds with it, but I also want to plant two new hostas. I have been successful with Mr. Ragland's method of planting in regular indigenous site soil and then adding mulched oak leaves on TOP, but want to ask if I should not also put a little of this compost INTO the hole since I think my having so many oak leaves as compost might not be the best thing. Wouldn't composted dirt be more beneficial than oak leaves that don't seem to break down very fast? Might oak leaves be toxic if used exclusively? I'm not talking about planting in pots, I'm talking about in the ground. Butch, are you there? Anybody?

Pat

Comments (12)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Oak leaves are fine...not toxic. And planting any plant in a hole filled with compost in clay soil may discourage the plants from sending their roots into the unamended soil.
    Do as you usually do.
    But....as ken says....they are hosta....they take all kinds of abuse!
    Linda C

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    After re-reading this it seems I've built you a watch when you may have only wanted the time?

    Lets start with dirt; it is the mineral part of the soil usually we talk of anything say below the mulch or ground level as dirt and I may be splitting hairs but you have at least 2 components to your soil. The mineral part and the organic part in the area we grow in, not quite that simple but close. Buying something from "soil producers" such as recycling centers is going to be probably 98-99% composted organic matter (ground up leaves, limbs even paper), we composted potato skins/peelings in our compost facility from a potato chip factory. This is all partially composted and wonderful but not dirt or even soil, it is a wonderful mulch though.

    I guess one type of leaf is not the best and a mixed compost from a mixed compost facility is better but look at a forest; lots of things grow and grow well if they have light again notice the edge of a forest where there is more light and you see lush growth. I wouldnt worry about one type of leaf yet adding other organic matter will give a more diverse input.

    Nor would I worry about a particular tree leaf such as oak leaves, what difference how fast they breakdown if in fact they do? None! Now to keeping leaves from building up from year to year run a mower to reduce the size AND increase the surface area increasing how fast they breakdown. Limbs breakdown slowly but they do breakdown and feed the soil, a fallen tree is called a nurse tree for the growth that comes from a fallen tree over the years. Oak leaves make wonderful organic mulch and are just as good as your recycle center compost. We start with bare soil and add oak leaves (I prefer ground up, lawnmower does fine) and continue to add yearly, after about 3 years of this process the soil will eat about 1 years worth of oak leaves unless you pile them to deep. The area under an oak will eat, process a trees worth of leaves every year, otherwise an oak forest would have oak leaves 10 or 20 feet deep, trust the process.
    Quick primer on the soil; organic matter falls from dead tree, grass, leaf, etc and the soil obsorbs it all by this process, to learn more search soil food web. Certain organisms attack or eat fresh organic matter then poops and other organisms keep moving the organic matter from the surface into the soil. Organisms designed to work on surface cannot work under the soil and visa versa so put it on top and let the process work. What you got from the recycling center is partially composted organic matter, NOT COMPOSTED ORGANIC MATTER. It is fine wonderful, valuable, useful but not soil and still needs to be acted on by sort of the surface organisms first.
    The reason we should not amend the soil is to allow the root system to get into a symbiotic relationship with the native soil where it is going to have to live. Sometimes the potting media interferes with root and water movement from the area where the rootball is into the surrounding soil. I donÂt bother with knocking off the potting media but I never make a fancy amended planting hole, dig a minimal hole, stick it in, mulch and walk away. If you want more on this search Dr Armitage, University of GA. His work on trees applies to most things we plant save seed crops like corn etc.
    Nutrients need to be introduced to the soil by the same method like bonemeal on the surface under your compost. Bonemeal is not immediately available to the roots anyway and must pass through a few cycles of organisms eating and being eaten anyway. Fish emulsion, alfalfa you name it works the same way, BTW cornmeal is as good as alfalfa, both are probably more expensive than they are worth.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    i once got some stuff from the city ....

    it was way too active.. and actually .. when used in pots.. burned all the plants to death ....

    i would tend to just top dress the soil with it ... it will work its way down into the roots ... just in case ...

    and i might take a spare pot.. and a petunia or something.. and stick it in pure stuff.. and see how the plant responds ...

    6 yards ... yikes.. lol .. i didnt picture your garden as that big .. lol ..

    ken

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    But....as ken says....they are hosta....they take all kinds of abuse!
    Linda C

    You could have saved me a lot of time, throw them into the driveway!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    it was way too active.. and actually .. when used in pots.. burned all the plants to death ....
    Ken

    City/compost facility compost is not potting soil, in fact don't even think of pots and the soil/dirt/ground as the same. Pot culture is quite different and pot culture rules/knowledge does not transfer to the soil. Things like perlite used in pot culture for drainage is worthless or even detrimental for the soil.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    hey.. we were all young and stupid at one time or another ...

    that was before i learned the difference between dirt... [which is on your clothes, hands and carpet] .... soil [which is mother earth] ... and potting medium [not potting soil .. and has nothing to do with soil ..]

    live and learn .. and share your mistakes with pat ... lol ..

    with 6 yards dumped on the driveway.. she can literally plant them there... if only she had a hover car to get to the garage ..

    ken

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "with 6 yards dumped on the driveway.. she can literally plant them there"
    ken

    I assumed that was the reason she had it dumped in the driveway? If not then forget everything I wrote.

    BTW ken have you tried the solution yet?

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    i would not ammend the hole

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    After re-reading this it seems I've built you a watch when you may have only wanted the time?

    Butch, will there be a test at the end of this?

    Hostamanfred

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Fred, if you can tell time you've passed the course?

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Patann,I don't know what kind of soil you have,but I have nothing but red clay in my entire garden. I never amend anything. The oak leaves that fall on my garden area,have amended it far better than I ever could. Stuff grows here like weeds here and that includes weeds! If my hostas grew any better this year,I would think they were on steroids! I have earthworms always working the soil,and can hardly plant anything without digging up some of them. Just MHO. Phil

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Are you in the clay soil or sandy soil part of MI?

    You can mix 25% compost with clay soil into the planting hole and not have any adverse effects on the plant's roots searching out native soil. 100% compost and they won't want to leave the good stuff.

    Top dress with the compost.